to fellow vegans

[kathryn]

Curious, for the vegans, what do you guys think of backyard farmers such as myself? I am not 100 percent comfortable with having chickens at this point; they have a great life but at the end of the day I am keeping them for their eggs. It's something I've discussed with members of my Buddhist group, and I'm wondering what the Cathe vegans think.

I think a backyard farm (or 'hobby farm' as some call it) can be a harmonious way for humans and certain animals to interact. For example, if chickens are allowed to live out their natural lifespans (which is about 20 years, vs the 6 months to 2 years of chickens on factory farms), and not killed off when they finish their egg production, and the human/animal connection is more symbiotic, I have no problem with it. (I don't think there is any way that large-scale production of animal 'products' can approach anything similar).

Farm Sanctuary has chickens amongst their rescued animals, and they have eggs that will otherwise have no purpose. Because they wish to be a model for others, showing that eggs are not necessary for human health (and it would be hard to model that behavior by them eating the surplus eggs, but telling others not to eat them), they use the eggs as feed for some of the other animals.

On the other hand, it's hard for me to see how raising goats or cows and using their milk could be as humane overall, because in order to provide milk, a cow must have a calf (and have them at least once every two years, is it?). If the backyard farm is unable to take care of the calf as well (and the multiple calves that will result in the long term) for the natural lifespan (which I think is around 20 years as well), what becomes of him/her? Unfortunately, even with small farms, the male calves will be sold for veal production.

 

[shelsmaha]

FYI to anyone who care this is a blog my cousin does...she is an animal activist and just a really cool person!! In it there is an article she wrote called "The Wickedness of Man" It is toward the end of the blog if you scroll down. I think it is a great thing to read and makes you think about what all goes into the food on our plates. It also addresses what Kathryn said about someone sitting at a grinder all day doing nothig but debeaking chicks and throwing the males away...how can that not mess you up? anyway read if you like....
http://hubpages.com/hub/Veg-I-Dea
sorry I don't know how to post a link so you have to copy and paste but worth the effort!!

 

[kathryn]

But personally, eggs gross me out (I have a friend who called them 'liquid chicken'-ewwww!).

I'll see you and raise you: I've heard them called "chicken menstrual products"!


(Eggs gross me out as well. To think of the texture of them is just repulsive now. And milk---which I used to chug by the glassful as a teen---is pretty gross as well. especially considering the fact that the USDA allows more mucus in milk than other countries----and many cows suffer from mastitis which creates the mucus, because they are bred to produce such huge amounts of millk, and their immune systems are weak, dispite the antibiotics they are fed. I wonder who originally thought that sucking on an animal's teat was a good idea? (That is, pre-domestication of cows.) Or that the milk of another species (except perhaps apes and other human 'cousins') was suitable for humans? )

 

[morningstar]

I think a backyard farm (or 'hobby farm' as some call it) can be a harmonious way for humans and certain animals to interact. For example, if chickens are allowed to live out their natural lifespans (which is about 20 years, vs the 6 months to 2 years of chickens on factory farms), and not killed off when they finish their egg production, and the human/animal connection is more symbiotic, I have no problem with it. (I don't think there is any way that large-scale production of animal 'products' can approach anything similar).

My understanding is that chickens are usually killed within 3 months of birth for their meat in large scale farms.

 

[kathryn]

I started looking into some of the egg business and I'm afraid i need a break right now. I HAD NO IDEA.

You mean those ads showing happy chickens enjoying the sun and the air and their fellow chicken companions, and wanting their eggs to be taken to feed us didn't clue you into their real conditions?

Ellie, thank YOU for wanting to become enlightened!

I'm serious. There are so many people who, like someone else (oops! I don't have the post in front of me, and forgot who: Amy?) said, don't care, or don't care to know (ignorance---that is 'not knowing'---is bliss, as they say).

 

[elliemom]

A little off topic, but when I was breastfeeding my children, people thought that was SO GROSS!!!! I always wanted to SCREAM, "but you are giving yours milk from a COW!!!" What's up with that???? I mean human milk is meant for humans, cow's milk for cows etc etc.

 

[kathryn]

If it were an option, I wouldn't go. I still support Cathe, but not Egglands.

Ditto
(The only way I'd go is as a protester of Egglands).

 

[LaughingWater]

Yeah, that was me for a long time. Instinctively, I knew something was wrong about how we got our food, but I also knew that educating myself about it would turn my habits upside down, be inconvenient, and open me up to criticism. The answer was to ignore it and hope it never fully revealed itself to me.

I blame Carola and The China Study for opening my eyes.

 

[morningstar]

I'll see you and raise you: I've heard them called "chicken menstrual products"!


(Eggs gross me out as well. To think of the texture of them is just repulsive now. And milk---which I used to chug by the glassful as a teen---is pretty gross as well. especially considering the fact that the USDA allows more mucus in milk than other countries----and many cows suffer from mastitis which creates the mucus, because they are bred to produce such huge amounts of millk, and their immune systems are weak, dispite the antibiotics they are fed. I wonder who originally thought that sucking on an animal's teat was a good idea? (That is, pre-domestication of cows.) Or that the milk of another species (except perhaps apes and other human 'cousins') was suitable for humans? )

My sister stopped eating dairy products when it occured to her that milk was cow's breast milk that should rightfully go to the calf. That ended quickly when she further realized that cheese was also made from milk.

 

[kathryn]

A little off topic, but when I was breastfeeding my children, people thought that was SO GROSS!!!! I always wanted to SCREAM, "but you are giving yours milk from a COW!!!" What's up with that???? I mean human milk is meant for humans, cow's milk for cows etc etc.

How true!
I guess as long as there is some distance between the breast/teat and the infant, it's okay!

 

[hiitdogs]

I blame Carola and The China Study for opening my eyes.

LOL! Better stand in line, Lori, I am getting blamed for a lot of things these days

My experience was similar to yours, Lori! I knew something was not right and it was very hard in the beginning, it was inconvenient and it opened me up to a lot of critisism but I feel pretty darn good these days. I still eat fish though, so technically I am not vegan

 

[LaughingWater]

I did discover vegan cupcakes though, and that kinda makes up for it.

 

[kathryn]

Here's a video on "cage free" eggs (thanks to a link from a VFer):
http://www.fowlplaymovie.com/display_video.php?id=9

 

[kathryn]

I am stuggling with the wool thing. I guess I have not investigated how sheep are treated that give us wool.

Here's a start for you: http://www.veganpeace.com/animal_cruelty/wool.htm

 

[shelsmaha]

Ok no more wool for me!! Like other things I really didn't think about wool but how ignorant of me. Thank-you so much for having the wool taken from over my eyes! Does that make sense? I was trying to be funny!!

 

[shelsmaha]

Lori Oreos are vegan...sometimes I wish I'd never heard this!!!!

 

[cindi1]

With wool, like everything else, I think it depends on the source. I buy my animal fiber from a local co-op. I've met the shephards and their sheep/goats/llamas and I know they are happy and healthy and loved. I know some believe that the mere posesssion of animals for human good is ethically wrong, but I don't believe that.

I know it is really hard and confusing (at least is is for me!), but I believe that the more we know about where our 'stuff' comes from and how it got to us, the better decisions we'll make.

This is a good discussion!

 

[Gayle]

With wool, like everything else, I think it depends on the source. I buy my animal fiber from a local co-op. I've met the shephards and their sheep/goats/llamas and I know they are happy and healthy and loved. I know some believe that the mere posesssion of animals for human good is ethically wrong, but I don't believe that.

I know it is really hard and confusing (at least is is for me!), but I believe that the more we know about where our 'stuff' comes from and how it got to us, the better decisions we'll make.

Amen!!!!!!

 

[LaughingWater]

Lori Oreos are vegan...

What?! Oh, I am so buying a bag this weekend.

 

[shelsmaha]

Cindi I agree with you on the source of our products. Good for you that you can buy from people that love the animals they keep...the wool must be softer and prettier when the sheep are happy right?
Lori you may curse my name for the oreo info someday!!