to fellow vegans

GovtGirl, I get what you're saying. I'm pretty sure most, if not all, vegans realize that no one can be 100% vegan all the time. That's where the drawing of the line I mentioned earlier comes into play.

It's not so much that Cathe herself eats animal products and maybe uses shampoo that tests on animals, etc. It's the very public partnership with an industry whose cruelty is well documented.
 
crazystepr said:
Drama, drama, drama.
*sigh*
You just can't please everyone.
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While I agree that you can't please everyone, and some people are frustratingly demanding, I think it's reasonable for vegans to question this particular situation. It's not being dramatic at all really.
 
I'm not a vegetarian. I simply feel that the chickens deserve a good life while they are laying away for us. The company is big enough to provide nice conditions for the chickens. The google links I read were awful. Peggy
 
I just heard about this and was kinda surprised, I'm glad I'm not the only one.

I wish she would of promoted organic eggs from cage free hens. Maybe I've been listening to Jillian Micheal's too much, but It seems against eating "clean" to eat eggs with hormones and such?

I guess Cathe is going more commercial and trying to gain more publicity. I still love her and her workouts though!
 
I did not realize Egglands Best was so well known for these practices, so I googled this issue, and did find articles pertaining to the terrible conditions from some of the farms they use, specifically lately a farm in Maine, but Egglands Best seems to be taking steps to stop purchasing from certain farms that are accused of this type of treatment. Also, they claim to be hormone and antibiotic free. I'm certain there is more to this issue that I don't know about, but in fairness, this article does explain what they are doing in response to the issues.

Here's one of the articles I found.
http://www.sunjournal.com/story/311323-3/LewistonAuburn/Egg_giants_work_on_reforms/
 
Maybe if enough people here chime in, Cathe can use her partnership with them to encourage them even more to treat the chickens more humanely? Just a thought.
 
Eggland's Best Eggs

We know people will have some fairly strong opinions on this and we’re not going to try to change anyone’s minds. But we do want to spend some time correcting a few misconceptions about Eggland’s Best so you can make a better informed decision.

EB does not own any farms and it doesn’t produce any eggs. This is probably something you did not know and are surprised to hear. Eggland’s Best is a co-op of farmers all over the United States, not a single giant conglomerate, that have agreed to feed their hens a strictly controlled EB diet of high-quality, all-natural, all-vegetarian diet without added hormones, antibiotics or steroids of any kind and to follow the highest standards in the industry. This is why Eggland’s Best eggs are lower in saturated fat, have more vitamin E and are lower cholesterol than other eggs. These same farms that produce EB eggs also produce other lesser quality eggs that you see in your supermarket too.

The idea behind the creation of Eggland’s Best was to solve a problem with egg freshness in the supermarket and to improve the quality of the product by setting very high standards and controlling the diet fed to the hens. We will have more about these standards as time goes on.

It used to be that the freshness of the eggs you purchased in the supermarket depended on where you lived before EB came along. The government allows 21 days for an egg to be delivered to a supermarket from the time it was laid. Eggland’s Best came along and cut this time to usually about 24 to 48 hours. Thus, the consumer gets a fresher egg no matter where they live and that is a good thing.

When it comes to quality Eggland’s Best is second to none. The entire egg industry, outside of Eggland’s Best, only did around 300 quality tests last year. Eggland’s Best did over 47,000. Their quality standards for their eggs and for the farms that produce their eggs are the absolute highest in the industry. This is a very well run company that deeply cares about the quality of its product. They also sell an abundance of cage free and organic eggs for those who prefer these.

Our mission is to remind and educate the public on why Eggland’s Best eggs are good for them and why they should be part of a healthy diet. We realize some people are against animal products of any kind and we respect your position, but we also hope you will be tolerant to the majority of people who eat eggs and believe differently.
 
SNM Videos said:
We realize some people are against animal products of any kind and we respect your position, but we also hope you will be tolerant to the majority of people who eat eggs and believe differently.
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For me personally, it's not about people who consume eggs (my family eats animal products) nor the quality of the eggs. It's the treatment of the animals who produce those eggs, regardless of their origin.

I'm not arguing with you, nor am I suggesting that vegans stop buying Cathe's products because of this recent association. I'm simply pointing out that this isn't about a lack of tolerance. This is pretty much a **discussion between vegans about a possible ethical dilemma.

**To be clear, I'm not saying no one else can join in on the discussion. That would be silly on a public forum, right? :) But this isn't a thread asking all Catheites to protest, be intolerant, and/or boycott Cathe. It's a bunch of vegans saying to each other, "Geez...this seems like a problem. What do you think?" I don't expect non-vegans to understand. Heck, I wouldn't have gotten it a few months ago.

All that said, I love Cathe, will continue to be a loyal customer, and wish her continued success.
 
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I have very strong feelings on this subject. To me cruelty to animals is wrong. When I see movies or read books about campaigns to abolish slavery, I see parallels in how humans have become numbed to the wrongness and suffering of animals that are exploited. At one point of time people actually believed there was nothing wrong with slavery because the environement had conditioned them to believe it was the order of things and seeing it since childhood had numbed their senses. I wonder whether a time will come when the world awakens to the monumental cruelty of how we exploit animals, and people will refer in wonderment to current practices in treating animals (the way we refer to medieval torture devices and slavery) as something humans actually used to be capable of.

This said, activism that is harsh and judgmental of those who believe differently seems to me inconsistent with the basic principle of veganism which is compassion. I gave up eating meat as a child and my journey to veganism is ongoing. I am on the last leg - giving up dairy - something I am struggling to do unlike leather, silk, wool, eggs, meat which I have up so easily. Having been someone who consumed non-vegan products myself, I see a need to give people space to decide for themselves. I hope for an audience when I communicate my convictions and do the courtesy of the same when people tell me of causes that are dear to them. Not all causes motivate me to change my thinking and actions. I would feel bad to be judged or denounced because I dont subscribe to every cause people try to "awaken" me with. So I feel I owe the same for those who believe differently from me on veganism.

I notice so frequently great goodness, compassion, generosity and empathy in people who are not vegan that is far, far more than what comes naturally to me. They are more "awakened" than me in a different aspect, while I am "awakened" to animal cruelty but have a long way to go with lot else.
 
Vee, I liken my approach to Veganism to my experience in learning about Buddhism. :) I come around slowly, learning bit by bit. Sometimes I look back and think, "Why didn't I get this before?" I suspect it all comes down to readiness. I just wasn't ready then.

That's why I would never verbally pound anyone who didn't understand why this thread was created, nor would I lecture my husband and children about the ills of factory farming while they eat their Sunday breakfast. I recognize that this is my journey...no one else's.

I'm also learning that just like some non-vegans who feel the need to challenge my choices (despite the fact my choices have nothing to do with them), there are plenty of vegans who are militant about their beliefs and give absolutely no one a break. I refuse to be that unforgiving and inflexible.

(I hear you on the dairy. Giving up cheese was the worst for me. Pizza just ain't the same.)

Edited to add: Yay, Kathryn is here! :D I was hoping you'd see this thread. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
 
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caseysmomgo said:
I buy Eggland's Best Cage Free eggs.
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Unfortunately, "cage free" doesn't mean much. It's more a way of the company making things sound like they are humane. The hens may still be debeaked (having their beaks cut or burned off as chicks so they don't peck each other to death from over crowding), being crowded in a space too small for them, where the only access to the outdoors is a small area that only a few can actually access at a time.
 
Laughing Water thank-you for bringing the post back to what I intended it to be. I as a vegan am surprised that Cathe would promote a company that is aligned with animal cruelty. I am not saying that the eggs aren't fresh. I have never judged anyone for consuming meat or eggs. My husband and sons all eat meat. I think the post about not using a non vegan plumber was not necessary as not one vegan that had posted had said anything negative about eating meat or eggs. We all spoke of the animal cruelty and inhumane way the hens are kept. They give their lives to give you eggs. And to SNM I am surprised at the response. It was not needed in this post. The post had nothing to do with the freshness of the eggs. Or the use of antibiotics. It was about the cruelty in the egg business. It was never my intent to cause drama I really did want to know how other vegans or people that care about animal rights felt.
 
LaughingWater said:
For me personally, it's not about people who consume eggs (my family eats animal products) nor the quality of the eggs. It's the treatment of the animals who produce those eggs, regardless of their origin.

I'm not arguing with you, nor am I suggesting that vegans stop buying Cathe's products because of this recent association. I'm simply pointing out that this isn't about a lack of tolerance. This is pretty much a **discussion between vegans about a possible ethical dilemma.
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I agree, but not completely. It's not just a vegan issue, it's an issue for anyone who is concerned about inhumane treatment of animals (no matter how 'healthy' what they produce is claimed to be).
 
Good point.

While my husband and children are neither vegetarian nor vegan, they'd be horrified if they saw how factory farms operated. I'd bet most people would be.
 
shelsmaha said:
Laughing Water thank-you for bringing the post back to what I intended it to be. I as a vegan am surprised that Cathe would promote a company that is aligned with animal cruelty. I am not saying that the eggs aren't fresh. I have never judged anyone for consuming meat or eggs. My husband and sons all eat meat. I think the post about not using a non vegan plumber was not necessary as not one vegan that had posted had said anything negative about eating meat or eggs. We all spoke of the animal cruelty and inhumane way the hens are kept. They give their lives to give you eggs. And to SNM I am surprised at the response. It was not needed in this post. The post had nothing to do with the freshness of the eggs. Or the use of antibiotics. It was about the cruelty in the egg business. It was never my intent to cause drama I really did want to know how other vegans or people that care about animal rights felt.
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They aren't aligned with animal cruelty. Like Chris/SNM said, Eggland's Best is a co-op. Some members of the co-op have been accused of animal cruelty. However, as was mentioned upthread, EB has taken steps to correct those problems at member farms. The point about the freshness is to show that they aren't some egg farm. They're working to change standards in the egg industry. It appears the charges were leveraged against one egg farm not owned by EB. Maybe someone has sources that list farms other than the farm in Maine. That's all I could find. Just helping to further clarify. I have no horse in this race or anything.

After further Googling, I'm not even sure the Maine farm is a co-op member. Every article I see says, "supplies eggs to Eggland's Best".
 
I too would like to point out that this has nothing to do with how many quality tests Eggland's Best does on its eggs, or even what it feeds its chickens. It's about how those animals are horribly mistreated in the process of providing us with food.

That said, I don't see anyone expressing intolerance or preaching to those who have no issue with this. Many of us here have pointed out that we are simply expressing our own position on the matter, and don't expect anyone else to change their behaviors or beliefs simply because random folks on a message board take issue with Cathe's partnership. As for me, I am vegetarian, not vegan, but if I did not have my own hens I would not eat eggs unless I could source them directly. I am slowly giving up dairy for the same reason. But my husband says he has no interest in giving up dairy; he will also indulge in a hamburger here and there and that is 100 percent fine with me. We are all grown-ups walking our own path.

OT: To those who have said that giving up dairy is the hardest: WORD. I am struggling with yogurt!

OT2: LaughingWater, I am making the same journey into Buddhism. :)
 
bonvivant said:
They aren't aligned with animal cruelty. Like Chris/SNM said, Eggland's Best is a co-op. Some members of the co-op have been accused of animal cruelty. However, as was mentioned upthread, EB has taken steps to correct those problems at member farms. The point about the freshness is to show that they aren't some egg farm. They're working to change standards in the egg industry. It appears the charges were leveraged against one egg farm not owned by EB. Maybe someone has sources that list farms other than the farm in Maine. That's all I could find. Just helping to further clarify. I have no horse in this race or anything.

After further Googling, I'm not even sure the Maine farm is a co-op member. Every article I see says, "supplies eggs to Eggland's Best".
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To most vegans, the act of branding and selling eggs (which Egglands Best indisputably does), no matter how happy the chickens are, no matter how clean and healthy the eggs are, is an unacceptable from of animal exploitation. The majority of vegans are very aware of the way animal agricultural business works - and for many of us, it's why we became vegan. I know Eggland's Best doesn't produce its own eggs, but that doesn't mean anything from a vegan standpoint. Their profits come from eggs, right? And eggs come from chickens. And keeping chickens for the purpose of selling their eggs is exploitative, since the chickens don't get any benefit from it - and indeed usually suffer for it.

I'm absolutely not condemning anyone for their personal food ethics. I don't want to start an argument about veganism. I'm just saying that any form of animal exploitation is contrary to an ethical vegan stance.

I certainly don't expect everyone I buy everything from to be vegan - but I actually do try to spend most of my retail dollars at shops that are vegan owned and operated.

I knew that Cathe wasn't vegan, and that didn't affect my support of her business - in fact, I was happy to support a woman-owned business, especially since her workouts ROCK. But if money I spend on Cathe workouts then goes to actively, publicly promote egg consumption, something I object to, I can't reconcile that with my own, personal ethics, and I won't spend any more of my money here (although clearly I can't stay away from the forums...).

I know lots of people who shop according to ethical principles. We're allowed to do that, and to talk about it - I'm glad that SNM noticed this thread, and obviously I wish they'd suddenly all go vegan and cancel the partnership - I really really want Shock Cardio! A lot! I know that won't happen, but I also really don't see the point of the egg partnership anyway. It seems like Cathe's business is fine without the egg angle.
 
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