to fellow vegans

[pixiesis]

And that's perfectly OKAY. I was just stating my opinion.

Oh, I know. It's just interesting to me. We haven't had a huge thread like this in a very long time, and this has been (in my opinion) very well-handled--on both sides of the debate--compared to the previous threads. I think maybe veganism might be becoming more popular and more acceptable to non-vegans.

Amy

 

[Fit_mommy]

Oh, I know. It's just interesting to me. We haven't had a huge thread like this in a very long time, and this has been (in my opinion) very well-handled--on both sides of the debate--compared to the previous threads. I think maybe veganism might be becoming more popular and more acceptable to non-vegans.

Amy

As I told Carola, I truly admire vegans and vegetarians. You go with your bad selves!

 

[Gayle]

That's why I like Middle Eastern food...so much variety to suite every taste.

I'm not a vegetarian, but one of the best vegetarian meals I ever had was a Pumpkin Kibbeh in a little Lebanese restaurant in Boston...I could never replicate it.

 

[LaughingWater]

I'd be shocked if Cathe and Co. were following a thread this huge ~ my first guess is that they'd be too busy.

In all seriousness though, at one point I know I stated that Cathe or her business partners shouldn't take the thread personally. Like Shellie said, if we asked this question of other **vegans on a vegan forum, we're pretty sure what the answer would be. I'd rather ask Catheites who love Cathe but are concerned about the Eggland association.

**I say "vegan" for simplicity. I realize all kinds of people demonstrate concern for the welfare of animals. Just wanted to restate that.

I can't ask someone who's a vegan but doesn't know who Cathe is and/or doesn't care to exercise. There's a decent chance that person wouldn't empathize like a Catheite and would likely say, "So...don't buy from her. What's the problem?"

I could go on and on about how Cathe inspires me, has introduced me to weight training, turns out top-notch products, and I think I would definitely miss out on a great joy in my life if I boycotted her products ~ it's very possible that would all fall on deaf ears.

Not here though. I'm really happy this thread was started.

 

[josiespcah6ojsh]

i am soo excited that i finally found a dry food my cat loves! Wellness Core which is grain free,no byproducts,soy,dairy,corn,artificial preservatives,colors or flavors,or rice
it includes fruit,botanicals,and high protein.she likes natural balanced canned food but has trouble eating it

laura

 

[shelsmaha]

Wendy I shouldn't have said you were in a huff, especially since I didn't know if you were huffing or not! So I apologize for that. I do think it was good to post this here though. Like Lori just reiterated these are feelings only we who LOVE Cathe's products would struggle with. No harm done, hope you aren't too annoyed with me!!

 

[shelsmaha]

and for the record like I think I metioned earlier I am not really "vegan" in the truest sense of the word because I do eat and use honey.

 

[eminenz2]

The bottom line for me is that I am not interested in anything Cathe sells except her workouts. If EB thinks that they're going to make any money off of me or that I would be even the least little bit motivated to buy their eggs because Cathe's hawking them, they are sadly mistaken.

I do worry though that there's going to be frikken Eggland's Best logos and crap like that on the covers of her next workouts... I am definitely not interested in seeing advertising on her DVD covers...

 

[shelsmaha]

Hi again Ladies...to anyone who cares this is a link to a raw food site that is having tons of inspirational speakers on teleseminars and you can listen to them free for 24 hrs each. The website is the raw divas. It is a fun site!

http://tinyurl.com/lr7vsa

 

[imatbrown]

some questions:

There's a possibility that some may read this thread and feel defensive about their way of life.

Unfortunately, I think it is human nature for both sides to feel defensive about their stance.

To those of you who might be put off by this discussion, please understand that we aren't targeting or judging anyone. I know I've said this before, but it's worth repeating: My husband and children eat animal products. Add to that, my brother-in-law and nephew are hunters, and my brother used to own a sheep farm where they killed sheep and pigs.

Are they bad people? No.

I do think they suffer from a degree of ignorance, though it's not the "ignorance" many have come to associate with the very insulting "stupid." It's a simple not-knowing, for lack of a better term. Not quite seeing things as they are ~ maybe a kind of mental blindness.

We all suffer from this kind of ignorance in one fashion or another. I know my faults well, and I have no doubt I'm ignorant in ways that currently escape my awareness. I do my best to learn and erase as much of my ignorance as possible though. (I fear I'll need several lifetimes to get it all done! )

What if it is not ignorance?
For myself, I have researched and researched food, by-products, etc. for multiple reasons:
1. my hubby and i love to learn
2. my stepson is autistic and dietary adjustments are one suggested form of therapy

I understand all of the facets of animal cruelty - and I am opposed to any form of cruelty. As silly as this is - I even prefer to catch flies and release them outside than to kill them.

But here are a high-level summary of my personal situations with the vegan / vegetarian lifestyle (which by the way I promote as my husband is vegetarian working towards vegan - and I help him as much as I can)

1. I am severly anemic and red meat happens to be the easiest form of large enough quantities iron for my body to digest. Plant-based iron is hard for my body to process quickly enough to help my hemoglobin. Yes, I know there are iron supplements, but everytime I take them they make me ill - I do not like ingesting anything synthetic (in this case I mean: produced in a lab and put in pill form) When I took an iron supplement during my first pregnancy - I was hospitalized due to my reaction to it

2. Second - protein sources are also difficult for me. I have severe migraine reactions to any soy product - sometimes just looking at soy gives me a headache and while I do love quinoa i can only eat so much of any one type of food before I gag on it . . . although that is mostly in my head i think

3. I did try the vegetarian lifestyle for almost a year and was so sick by the end of that year my doctor had me see a nutritionist (who is well regarded and was wonderful - so please do not think badly of him when I say this next part) who recommended that i add animal products back in to my diet. I still grill my hubby portobello mushrooms instead of chicken! Since I do not ingest anything with any chemicals or having come from a lab - supplements are out for me.

These are just a couple of my issues (and I didn't go in to all of the details of each one) . . . so where does this leave me? Well, any vegetables we do not grow - I shop from local organic farmers who do not use pesticides, I watch closely who I get my milk and my eggs and my meat from.

And you know what . . . I am healthy and migraine free with radiant skin, and long silky hair and fast growing nails . . . so i am not ignorant nor do I suffer mental-blindness in this area . . . but do eat animal products.

This is a great discussion and glad that for the most part it has been knowledgeable and adult!!!

Tami

 

[imatbrown]

Hi Amy - This is purely anecdotal on my part, but at one time in my early 20's I was a very unhealthy and anemic vegetarian. I tried going veg for health reasons, and because I wasn't really into buying and cooking meat for myself. It was a 6 month disaster...even with my doctor's help.

I really believe that NOT every body is made for a vegetarian diet. It works great for some, but not all. For me, I'm seeing good results as I inch my way toward a more Paleo/gluten free eating style...but that's just me.

I saw a great quote in a blog once that went something like this: "Food is much like religion with many more unknowns than knowns."

Oooh, I just replied to another post saying how my body does not handle a vegetarian/vegan diet - I am so glad that somebody else's body here says 'not gonna do it'

Also, regarding the comment about heart disease and other health issues popping up - i do not believe those are just because that person eats animal products . . . i would bet in quite a few of those cases the "TOTAL health of the person" (ie: moderation, exercise, nutrition, life-balance, etc) was at fault not to mention predisposition.

 

[imatbrown]

A couple of questions

I do have some questions for the vegans / vegetarians on here
**please note that I am asking earnestly to find out your positions because I am curious**

So if you are no longer going to buy cathe videos - are the ones that you bought prior to her EB affiliation okay? and will you still use them?

As vegan / vegetarians following this thread do you wear leather / own leather furniture / have leather seats / use paint brushes made with animal hair?

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to answer

Tami

 

[hiitdogs]

I do have some questions for the vegans / vegetarians on here
**please note that I am asking earnestly to find out your positions because I am curious**

So if you are no longer going to buy cathe videos - are the ones that you bought prior to her EB affiliation okay? and will you still use them?

As vegan / vegetarians following this thread do you wear leather / own leather furniture / have leather seats / use paint brushes made with animal hair?

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to answer

Tami

I am actually not vegan, I eat fish.

I have always had an issue with animal cruelty and cringe every time I see one of those trucks loaded with cows. I have seen how animals are treated, it has turned my stomach and to be honest I think I should have stopped eating meat because of those practices BUT I didn't. My reason to cut out animal products were purely health related. So unlike others here who have clear convictions that I admire, mine was purely about my health, so kinda selfish

You don't believe that animal products have much to do with increase in heart disease, cancer and other diseases? There is plenty of evidence and scientific evidence that proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt (in my opinion) but I agree with you that probably everything in moderation should be fine if you are a moderately healthy individual who is not battling any kind of disease. Whereas eliminating animal products from my diet has made a HUGE difference in my health, I agree that everyone is different and that it may not work for everyone.

I am not sure that I would agree on the "predisposition" to disease. I don't remember where I read it but it really stuck in my mind "If xyz disease runs in your family, you don't need to run with it". I guess the question is, are those diseases really genetically predispositioned OR are they in fact a lifestyle or eating pattern that we adopt while we grow up?

But back to your question, I have slowly started to eliminate or at least cut down on things that are leather, animal hair, etc. but I am not very consistent - unfortunately, I wish I could say otherwise. What can I say, I am far from perfect!!

It's not easy, my dogs eat raw meat, my kids still eat eggs and some dairy as well as fish, so I am not exactly an example of truly vegan lifestyle.

 

[Vee]

So if you are no longer going to buy cathe videos - are the ones that you bought prior to her EB affiliation okay? and will you still use them?

This question does not apply to me as I dont feel any inclination to stop purchasing Cathe's products because of her EB association.

My sis and niece whom I love dearly love to eat meat. Many people whom I love and admire have choices different than mine. I dont try to influence them unless they ask me about this issue.

As vegan / vegetarians following this thread do you wear leather / own leather furniture / have leather seats / use paint brushes made with animal hair?

I do not use leather/fur products at all, nor silk, nor wool for that matter. I dont consume honey. As far as I am aware (and I take the trouble to ask / read labels) I dont buy products (brushes/cosmetics) which are tested on animals or contain animal products. But I think there is a high chance I am inadvertantly buying a few things that contain animal products because labelling standards are poor in my part of the world.

I am in the process of giving up dairy. Unlike other animal products (which I could easily give up overnight once I made the decision), I am using the weaning off approach with dairy.

I still have not been able to completely able to eliminate animal products - many medications are sold as capsules made with gelatin. Where possible I try to find alternatives.

I gave up meat as a child once I made the connection between what was on my plate and how it got there. I dont remember how old I was. I wasnt influenced by any literature or media or activism. I was too young for that and I wasnt exposed to any activism. I am an animal lover. I spent weekends as a child at the animal shelter when possible. I recall that my mum made chicken curry the day after the decision, and I was so tempted by the aroma, I found it difficult not to help myself to some at lunch. But that was the only time I found it difficult. Since many years now, meat does not seem like food to me any more. I dont think I could swallow even if I tried. I have no recollection of what meat or seafood or poultry tastes like.

Giving up eggs, leather, wool came later in my life as I gained more awareness.

I can still cook eggs, but I cant bring myself to handle meat. When I cook eggs pictures of what hens go through play in my mind. With every passing day, consuming dairy is more difficult. DH loves eggs - he is ovo-lacto-vegetarian. He also uses leather.

If you are curious, you may want to read about "ahimsa". Ahimsa is the sanskrit word for non-violent. It impliesthat you use your own judgement to make the best decision you can about what is least harmful to the world and her creatures and most beneficial in the grander scheme of things. It is impossible to be totally vegan. When a building is constructed creatures who live in the soil are killed. I will have no qualms about killing a parasite like say a tape worm. I hire pest control to kill roaches and rats and keep my home hygenic. I therefore dont believe I have any right to judge anybody's choices.

 

[sparrow13]

I will continue to do the Cathe workouts I have. These were purchased pre-EG.

As for leather/wool etc. Clothes are the one area I have not made huge switches, I think simply because:

- I rarely shop - I mean rarely - so impact is minimal anyway.
- the clothes I do buy tend to be second-hand (consignment, ebay etc) so the money isn't going into the hands of leather or wool goods manufacturers when I do.

These aren't perfect solutions, and in my clean-and-ethical-living dreams I could afford to purchase 100 percent organic, fair trade, cruelty-free clothing and household items. Right now I can't so I put my money towards the area where I believe it has the most impact: food and food-related purchases. My make-up and cleaning-products are all "clean" as well.

This is such a fantastic discussion!

 

[WRITER]

I do not intend to stop buying Cathe workouts. I may stop buying strength training just because I have more of those than I use, but most other things I'll pre-order just as before.

I am not fully consistent on the leather issue. I don't buy large leather clothing or accessories -- eg. jackets, coats, my briefcases, none of these are leather. I do still buy some leather shoes. I feel that I am still making a difference, and I think the fear of inconsistency keeps people from going part-way -- and part-way IMO is still a good move (especially in terms of the environment, which is one of the reasons I'm vegetarian).

 

[Fit_mommy]

Wendy I shouldn't have said you were in a huff, especially since I didn't know if you were huffing or not! So I apologize for that. I do think it was good to post this here though. Like Lori just reiterated these are feelings only we who LOVE Cathe's products would struggle with. No harm done, hope you aren't too annoyed with me!!

I try my hardest to get my POV across here without upsetting people and it bothers me when someone DOES get upset with me. What I wrote was in no way supposed to be a personal attack against you (or anyone else for that matter) or the vegan/vegetarian lifestyle. I'm sorry if it came off that way.

Enjoy the rest of the discussion!

 

[LaughingWater]

Unfortunately, I think it is human nature for both sides to feel defensive about their stance.

Very true!

It certainly looks like in your case, an animal based diet is a much better choice for you. Your reaction to supplementation is interesting (and a bummer, I might add). And I've heard that soy can be a problem for some.

...my doctor had me see a nutritionist (who is well regarded and was wonderful - so please do not think badly of him when I say this next part)...

Oh gosh no...I promise I wouldn't.

Well, any vegetables we do not grow - I shop from local organic farmers who do not use pesticides, I watch closely who I get my milk and my eggs and my meat from.

I know there are some who feel any consumption of animal products is unacceptable, even if the meat, chicken, milk, etc. is purchased from a local farm that treats its animals humanely. I'm not so hard line though. I think it's a fantastic alternative to buying from huge companies that mass produce.

And you know what . . . I am healthy and migraine free with radiant skin, and long silky hair and fast growing nails . . . so i am not ignorant nor do I suffer mental-blindness in this area . . .

I'm glad you're doing well! Thank you for bringing another side into this discussion. Give us more to think about.

 

[Afreet]

I do have some questions for the vegans / vegetarians on here
**please note that I am asking earnestly to find out your positions because I am curious**

So if you are no longer going to buy cathe videos - are the ones that you bought prior to her EB affiliation okay? and will you still use them?

As vegan / vegetarians following this thread do you wear leather / own leather furniture / have leather seats / use paint brushes made with animal hair?

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to answer

Tami

Yes, I plan to keep and use my pre-EB Cathe videos! This is already hard enough - I LOVE her older titles, and I bought them in good faith, and nothing I do with them would affect the EB situation.

I do not purchase leather goods (shoes, belts, bags, wallets, cellphone cases, etc), and I use synthetic brushes for paint and makeup and such. All of these have acceptable vegan alternatives. Of course, I had many of these items before I became vegan, and I chose to wear them or use them until they were worn out, then replaced them with vegan alternatives.

 

[LaughingWater]

Just saw this...

So if you are no longer going to buy cathe videos - are the ones that you bought prior to her EB affiliation okay? and will you still use them?

I'm not giving up Cathe's products. A gang of vegans would have to pry her DVDs from my cold, dead hands.

As vegan / vegetarians following this thread do you wear leather / own leather furniture / have leather seats / use paint brushes made with animal hair?

No, I don't own any of these things. I am a new vegan though, so I'm in the process of transition with objects like soap and hair/skin care. In addition, like Vee said, it's impossible to 100% vegan. So I do know it either sneaks into my life or will be totally unavoidable at times.

*Edit: Wait! DH bought me a leather jacket years ago. It's sitting in my closet because I don't have the heart to give it away. I have a lot of fake leather, but to be honest, the products were bought (way before I adopted vegan practices) because it was cheaper.