Not judging, just curious

[buffettgirl]

I want to hear the rest of the joke!

 

[janiejoey]

Came in with fresh popcorn and have smoothies for everyone. Thanks for the idea Beavs.

Round two.

Janie

 

[allwildgirl]

*gets the blender out to make margaritas*

 

[Liann]

Woo-hoo, party time!

 

[sparrow13]

*gets the blender out to make margaritas*

See my new thread, and make mine a double.

 

[Vee]

What I believe, and probably didn't say very well, is that sin is sin. It is my belief, based on what the Bible says, that homosexuality is sin. So is gluttony, lying, adultery, murder, beastiality, judging others, etc, etc. I further more believe that sin is sin. There is no degree of sin. I am as guilty of sin as a murderer or a homosexual. I don't that believe calling the union of two men or two woman a "marriage" and making it "legal" makes it any less of a sin.

Hurting a child is wrong. Slavery is wrong. That is black and white.

Some religions say eating meat is a sin.

Jainism goes to the extent of saying harming insects is a sin and depriving a plant of life is a sin (Jains dont eat root vegetables because the plant is killed in havesting the crop).

The Quran permits a man to have 4 wives.

For the most part people who are born into a particular religion are taught what is sin from an impressionable age.

Consensual sex between adults? I cant see sin there. I believe that people dont choose their sexual orientation. It is far easier to be straight so given a choice that is what most people would do. That is my belief.

I truly believe in other people's right to believe as they do.

With some questions, everyone's conscience does not always come up with the same answer.

Therein lies the conflict - how do we resolve these questions?

 

[kathryn]

I do somewhat see both sides (though NOT the side that takes every word in the Bible as the truth and bludgeons others with those words).
I think the problem may come down to the word "mariage."

If proposition opposed "civil union," I'd hope most people would vote against it.

Making "civil unions" legal could leave the way open for individual churches to decide on their own whether they would perform mariages between two people of the same sex.

 

[Vee]

Kathryn,

If we were to put it to vote, I think most of us would agree with you. You should have come to the thread a lot earlier.

 

[jonahnah]

My view is gays should be allowed to marry, plain and simple.

To my mind, attitudes against gay marriage are no different than the laws that used to prohibit interracial marriage. Those laws were unjust and our constitution is based on the premise that all men are created equal. Amazing that these laws were still being enforced in 16 states in 1967 when the Supreme Court finally ruled that they were unconstitutional.

Why should gays have to settle for Civil Unions? "Separate but equal" was BS in the 1950s and 1960s and it is now.

The biggest threat to marriage is divorce, not people who love each other! Gender makes no difference. It's interesting that a religion that turns a blind eye to bigamy and sanctions marriage between uncles and underage neices thinks it has God on its side. I'm sure they believe their Bible is the right one too.

I'd rather watch 2 adult men or women pledge their love for one another than see a 60 year man marry his 15 year neice.

 

[boybielicious]

People can do whatever they want to be happy. I am all for happiness. Doesn't mean I would do the same thing necessarily, but if it isn't bothering me & I'm not getting anything shoved down my throat, what is the difference?

I'm not a religious person, so take this for what it's worth -- so what if people go against what the "religious code" is? They go to hell? What? I think there are so many people down there right now, they certainly wouldn't be lonely.

 

[elliemom]

As the original poster here, I just wanted to clarify a few things.

First of all, I did not intened to "start" anything. I am not 6 years old. I saw "the pregnant man" on GMA this morning talking about his "wife". I was curious as to how she could be his wife when he is a WOMAN!! He has given birth not by surrogacy, not by some miracle from above but from working ovaries and a uterus, with his own female hormones. Because again, he is a woman. But they are married because he changed his name to Tom and took a heck of a lot of male hormones. Which he had to stop taking in order to carry a pregnancy.

Secondly, I had no intention of talking religion. We all have ours ( or not) and have strong beliefs. I would never and have never questioned anyone's religious beliefs. Nor have I ever mentioned communism, beastiality or pornography and all the other things that were mentioned. I admit to not knowing what is considered a sin in all the world's religions, can all of you say the same? Some people actually noted this and tried to educate us that some things we do on a regular basis without a second thought are considered sins in their religions.

Thirdly, with marriage comes divorce. Ask any man or woman who has had to give 1/2 of their pension, pay alimony, divide and sell a home and start all over again if their marriage was real. Whether they were married in a church, synagogue, Las Vegas chapel or the local courthouse. Does doing it one way make you less married or less liable for these things. If you are married and your spouse runs up the credit card debt, you are resposible for half of that when you get divorced. Marital property, marital earnings etc. It's a legal contract.

And finally, ( you guys must be half way thru your margaritas by now) please
go back and read the OP, I was asking why is it okay to "pretend" to be a different sex (when the govt knows you were born Mary and not Tom) and be allowed to get married. Kinda like "don't ask don't tell" mentality don't you think???

elliemom

 

[camellia1900]

wow

Originally Posted by buffettgirl View Post
I think marriage is defined as between a man and a woman. If we re-define the word as between anyone, who's to say marriage can't be between a man and a goat. Or a woman and a four year old. Or a man and five women.

I don't care if gays want to be a couple. If they want a monogamous relationship, wonderful. But I don't believe it is a marriage, as defined religiously (yes, religiously) AND historically.

JMHO. I'm not throwing any stones and hope to not get hit by any in return.


DON'T WORRY. PROP 8 WOULDN'T MEAN THAT GAYS WOULD BE MARRIED "AS DEFINED RELIGIOUSLY" anyway... so let them have the same damn legal rights as a married man and woman. Why should it bother anyone that they are allowed to marry if they so choose and have the same legal rights as a couple ESPECIALLY IF ITS TECHNICALLY NOT DONE AS A RELIGIOUS CEREMONY/IN THE EYES OF GOD?

C'MON

Tanya

 

[diane57]

I was not married in a church, and am not religious. But being married to my husband is the best thing in my life and I'm sad that gay couples are being deprived of that joy. Separate-but-equal civil contracts are not the same as being married.

For those who read the Bible so literally, I invite you to comply with ALL the requirements of the Old Testament. You should not be able to pick and choose those you like (Gays are sinners) and those you dislike (No lobster-eating next summer in Maine, no mixed-fiber clothing). If you carefully read Leviticus and other parts of the OT, you will be so busy wondering if it is safe to breathe or move that you will not have time to campaign against gay rights.

Just as a few examples:

If your husband has ever touched you during your period, or within the unclean period immediately afterward, you're in big trouble. Lev. 15 19-24.

It's ok for you to sell your daughter into slavery, it says so right there in the Bible. So if your credit card bills are getting out of hand, POOF instant solution. Exodus 21.7.

It's fine for you to own slaves. Lev. 25.44. You just have to be sure to purchase them from NEIGHBORING nations, i.e., they should not be domestic.

If you do ANY work on the Sabbath, it is a sin and you can be PUT TO DEATH for it. Think twice before you do that yardwork on Sunday, is it really worth it? Lev. 35.2

And I think we all know that eating shellfish is an ABOMINATION. Lev. 11.10. I guess we just have to decide if it's a greater or lesser abomination than being gay.

Lev. 21.20 says you can't approach the altar of God if you have a defect in your vision. Anyone that wears glasses, that means you. Probably you shouldn't get married either, since you are so clearly repugnant to the Lord. Perhaps I will put a Prop. on the ballot next year saying that your marriage is invalid.

And, I have lost the reference to this one, but the OT also says if a woman is raped and does not make any noise (like if the guy is holding a gun to her head to keep her quiet), she shall be put to death. If she is raped and DOES make nosie, her husband shall divorce her.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

A Christian friend of mine, who voted AGAINST Prop.8 (and thus FOR gay marriage), told me that her church teaches that Christ came to earth to provide an alternative to the rigidity and harshness of the Old Testament, and to show us how to be kinder, gentler and more loving.

 

[skimi]

the last few posts have really summed up what i was going to write, but it is still early on monday for me to put good thoughts together. i live in california, and i was fairly embarrased by proposition 8 passing. the commercials for this proposition were downright insulting to my intelligence.

it is funny, i grew up and spent 38 years in georgia, a majorly conservative, smack-dab in the middle of the "bible-belt" state, so i would expect this mindset there. i was under the impression i was moving to a more liberal, progressive state, but they just took many steps backwards with this one. at least they got prop 2 right.

 

[Miss Lee]

I was not married in a church, and am not religious. But being married to my husband is the best thing in my life and I'm sad that gay couples are being deprived of that joy. Separate-but-equal civil contracts are not the same as being married.

For those who read the Bible so literally, I invite you to comply with ALL the requirements of the Old Testament. You should not be able to pick and choose those you like (Gays are sinners) and those you dislike (No lobster-eating next summer in Maine). If you carefully read Leviticus and other parts of the OT, you will be so busy wondering if it safe to breathe or move that you will not have time to campaign against gay rights.

Just as a few examples:

If your husband has ever touched you during your period, or within the unclean period immediately afterward, you're in big trouble. It's repugnant. Lev. 15 19-24.

It's ok for you to sell your daughter into slavery, it says so right there in the Bible. So fi your credit card bills are getting out of hand, POOF instant solution. Exodus 21.7.

It's fine for YOU to own slaves. Lev. 25.44. You just have to be sure to purchase them from NEIGHBORING nations, i.e., they should not be domestic.

If you do ANY work on the Sabbath, it is a sin and you can be PUT TO DEATH for it. Think twice before you do that yardwork on Sunday, is it really worth it? Lev. 35.2

And I think we all know that eating shellfish is an ABOMINATION. Lev. 11.10. I guess we just have to decide if it's a greater or lesser abomination than being gay.

If you ever eat pork or even touch the skin of a pig (pork cracklins, footballs, etc.)

Not that I want to get into some huge biblical debate , but for us "Christians", Jesus fulfilled the OT prophecy and the NT is what we adhere too.

 

[Jennifit]

I guess I see this as a moral issue and NOT as a human rights issue. Therein lies the difference.

How can a government legislate "morals"? The church (which I am assuming is where you get your morals) cannot legislate morals because of our constitution and the separation of church and state.

The reason it is a human rights issue is it involves "government things" like taxes. Married people get a lot of tax credits, while civil unions do not. That, to me, is a human rights and unfair tax issue.

 

[Liann]

Not that I want to get into some huge biblical debate , but for us "Christians", Jesus fulfilled the OT prophecy and the NT is what we adhere too.

Agreed, and since it's 2 p.m. (the biotchy hour), I'll add a "DUH" for good measure.

 

[Miss Lee]

Agreed, and since it's 2 p.m. (the biotchy hour), I'll add a "DUH" for good measure.

LOL!! Thanks Liann -- I don't know HOW I left that out of my comment!!

 

[Fitnessfreakk366]

I want to know who married the goat?

 

[elliemom]

As the original poster here, I just wanted to clarify a few things.

First of all, I did not intened to "start" anything. I am not 6 years old. I saw "the pregnant man" on GMA this morning talking about his "wife". I was curious as to how she could be his wife when he is a WOMAN!! He has given birth not by surrogacy, not by some miracle from above but from working ovaries and a uterus, with his own female hormones. Because again, he is a woman. But they are married because he changed his name to Tom and took a heck of a lot of male hormones. Which he had to stop taking in order to carry a pregnancy.

Secondly, I had no intention of talking religion. We all have ours ( or not) and have strong beliefs. I would never and have never questioned anyone's religious beliefs. Nor have I ever mentioned communism, beastiality or pornography and all the other things that were mentioned. I admit to not knowing what is considered a sin in all the world's religions, can all of you say the same? Some people actually noted this and tried to educate us that some things we do on a regular basis without a second thought are considered sins in their religions.

Thirdly, with marriage comes divorce. Ask any man or woman who has had to give 1/2 of their pension, pay alimony, divide and sell a home and start all over again if their marriage was real. Whether they were married in a church, synagogue, Las Vegas chapel or the local courthouse. Does doing it one way make you less married or less liable for these things. If you are married and your spouse runs up the credit card debt, you are resposible for half of that when you get divorced. Marital property, marital earnings etc. It's a legal contract.

And finally, ( you guys must be half way thru your margaritas by now) please
go back and read the OP, I was asking why is it okay to "pretend" to be a different sex (when the govt knows you were born Mary and not Tom) and be allowed to get married. Kinda like "don't ask don't tell" mentality don't you think???

elliemom

Thanks for reading