Not judging, just curious

[buffettgirl]

The problem is that only non-religious viewpoints are respected. When someone tells why they feel strongly about the topic and the reason just happens to be religion, they are immediately put down or discounted. Don't ask for people's personal opinions if you don't want to hear them. (I'm not directing that at any one in particular). When someone offers up a religious view point and you don't agree with it, fine. That's why America is so great. We can voice our opinions and we DO NOT have to agree with each other.

Amen. Preach it, sister!

 

[lifeverlasting78]

The Truth shall set you free

A man should not be allowed to marry another man, nor a woman another woman. You know why??? BECAUSE JESUS CHRIST SAYS SO!! HE IS OUR ULTIMATE AUTHORITY AND TO WHOM WE WILL HAVE TO GIVE AN ACCOUNT AFTER OUR LAST BREATH. It doesn’t matter what we think is “fair” or not, the issue is what God’s word says about sin and obedience!! HE gives us life and the freedoms we so thoroughly enjoy, including the freedom to “argue” this matter. But HE also gives us instructions in His word called the Bible which clearly spells out our sinful, pitiful natures in desperate need of a savior – JESUS CHRIST!! Come on people, He died for you!! And for what?? So we can deny Him and speak lies rather than Truth? “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.” (Romans 1:25). He is not an evil God wanting to deny us pleasures. However, without Him we will “pleasure” ourselves to death –literally!! “The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord!” (Romans 6:23)” News flash, it’s NOT about what we want, it’s about what HE commands. By the way, if you have a problem with what I’ve posted, take it to God since it’s His word I’ve shared. No sense in lashing out at me, I’m just the messenger.

“In the beginning, God made them male and female…and God blessed them and said to them (the male and FEMALE), “Be fruitful and increase in number..” (Genesis 1:27-28)

But for Adam no suitable helper was found…..Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman, for she was taken out of man. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.” (Genesis 1:23-24)

“If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable” (Lev 20:13)
“Because of this (people exchanging God’s truths for LIES –see verse 25), God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.” (Romans 1:26-27)

There are MANY other scriptures that speak out against homosexuality/sin in the Bible. This is not about “Catholicism” or “religion” or what the government thinks we should do. It never was and God never intended it to be. It is about a relationship with God’s son, Jesus Christ, who died for the sins of the world (yours and mine!) so that our relationship with God could be restored! “For God so loved the world that He gave His only son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). STAND UP FOR THE TRUTH!!

Here is the truth, and I pray that you read it and believe it and seek Him now:



But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:21-26)

 

[pebblesus]

I don't think the intent was to compare Homosexuality to pedophilia or beastiality. The point is that in many groups - "Marriage" is strictly defined as a union between a man and a woman. Some believe that if you waive on the definition in any way, then it loses its meaning entirely.

Yes, very clearly implying that RELIGION is the "group" that is making many of these definitions.. have you noticed that most gay's aren't religious?
Stepping out of these boundaries are as easy for them as a Christian slamming the door in the face of a Wiccan trying to convert them with the Wiccan Handbook lol..

It's all relative

 

[LeanneM]

The problem is that only non-religious viewpoints are respected. When someone tells why they feel strongly about the topic and the reason just happens to be religion, they are immediately put down or discounted. Don't ask for people's personal opinions if you don't want to hear them. (I'm not directing that at any one in particular). When someone offers up a religious view point and you don't agree with it, fine. That's why America is so great. We can voice our opinions and we DO NOT have to agree with each other.

I'd like to think that it's not certain religious views I'm reacting against (and I'm also a religious/spiritual person), but the intolerance expressed in what happen to be certain religious views.

For instance, if someone said something that was really racist on this forum, I would feel that I had to say something -- that I had to stand up against bigotry. I see this issue in the same way; when I see someone else's rights set aside because of bigotry and intolerance, I have to say something.

 

[melimcn]

A man should not be allowed to marry another man, nor a woman another woman. You know why??? BECAUSE JESUS CHRIST SAYS SO!! HE IS OUR ULTIMATE AUTHORITY AND TO WHOM WE WILL HAVE TO GIVE AN ACCOUNT AFTER OUR LAST BREATH. It doesn’t matter what we think is “fair” or not, the issue is what God’s word says about sin and obedience!! HE gives us life and the freedoms we so thoroughly enjoy, including the freedom to “argue” this matter. But HE also gives us instructions in His word called the Bible which clearly spells out our sinful, pitiful natures in desperate need of a savior – JESUS CHRIST!! Come on people, He died for you!! And for what?? So we can deny Him and speak lies rather than Truth? “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.” (Romans 1:25). He is not an evil God wanting to deny us pleasures. However, without Him we will “pleasure” ourselves to death –literally!! “The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord!” (Romans 6:23)” News flash, it’s NOT about what we want, it’s about what HE commands.
“In the beginning, God made them male and female…and God blessed them and said to them (the male and FEMALE), “Be fruitful and increase in number..” (Genesis 1:27-28)
But for Adam no suitable helper was found…..Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman, for she was taken out of man. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.” (Genesis 1:23-24)
“If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable” (Lev 20:13)
“Because of this (people exchanging God’s truths for LIES –see verse 25), God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.” (Romans 1:26-27)
This is not about “Catholicism” or “religion” or what the government thinks we should do. It never was and God never intended it to be. It is about a relationship with God’s son, Jesus Christ, who died for the sins of the world (yours and mine!) so that our relationship with God could be restored! “For God so loved the world that He gave His only son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). STAND UP FOR THE TRUTH!!

Here is the truth, and I pray that you read it and believe it and seek Him now:



But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:21-26)

...and reference my original post.

Your God and interpretation of the Bible is not the same God or interpretation that everyone else follows. That does not make your right or wrong. But this DOES mean that you don't get to impose your belief system on others.

This thread was mostly civil up until now. But, as predicted, this post crosses the line, and I'm checking out.
Have a good one every body.

 

[LeanneM]

I don't think the intent was to compare Homosexuality to pedophilia or beastiality. The point is that in many groups - "Marriage" is strictly defined as a union between a man and a woman. Some believe that if you waive on the definition in any way, then it loses its meaning entirely. Someday I believe people will want to marry robots (like Commander Data!).

Hi Cindi -- I realize that that was not the actual direct comparison that the person who posted this was using, but the analogy is extremely offensive. Look at it this way: if someone was talking about your marriage and your right to marry whomever you wanted to, and they compared your marriage in the same breath to bestiality and pedophilia, wouldn't you be offended?

 

[Liann]

I'd like to think that it's not certain religious views I'm reacting against (and I'm also a religious/spiritual person), but the intolerance expressed in what happen to be certain religious views.

For instance, if someone said something that was really racist on this forum, I would feel that I had to say something -- that I had to stand up against bigotry. I see this issue in the same way; when I see someone else's rights set aside because of bigotry and intolerance, I have to say something.

But where do you draw the line? Believing that homosexuality is wrong because you feel it is morally wrong is their right. If they were going out and hanging homosexuals or harassing them, there would be a problem. In my church we were taught to LOVE them and embrace them, but not condone their lifestyle or "participate" in it per se. The question that would have to be debated on marriage is whether or not it began as a religious institution. That's the real debate. If it's a religious institution, then let the individual church's decide what their standards will be. And let the government decide what standards they will apply to their civil unions, which I think should have the same rights the rest of us get.

 

[lifeverlasting78]

...and reference my original post.

Your God and interpretation of the Bible is not the same God or interpretation that everyone else follows. That does not make your right or wrong. But this DOES mean that you don't get to impose your belief system on others.

This thread was mostly civil up until now. But, as predicted, this post crosses the line, and I'm checking out.
Have a good one every body.

There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— ONE LORD, one faith, one baptism; ONE GOD and father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

 

[LauraMax]

But where do you draw the line? Believing that homosexuality is wrong because you feel it is morally wrong is their right. If they were going out and hanging homosexuals or harassing them, there would be a problem. In my church we were taught to LOVE them and embrace them, but not condone their lifestyle or "participate" in it per se. The question that would have to be debated on marriage is whether or not it began as a religious institution. That's the real debate. If it's a religious institution, then let the individual church's decide what their standards will be. And let the government decide what standards they will apply to their civil unions, which I think should have the same rights the rest of us get.

But Liann, the point has already been made that many people do not get married in church. Many of us (myself included) were married by JoPs or even someone who got their license on the internet.

Also, if you want to examine the origins of marriage, believe me when I tell you it existed long before Christianity. Probably even before the Greeks & Romans kept young slave boys to play with.

 

[WantFit]

There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— ONE LORD, one faith, one baptism; ONE GOD and father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

Wow, this sounds so scary. I thought America is freedom of speech, freedom of thinking, freedom of religon. Never thought one God is more righteous than the other, one group of people is more superior to the other just because of different belief.

Being expereienced how community party brain washed people. Now this religion things seemed the same way to me. Here is why I had this feeling:

Religion and Communist Party in smilar
1. No question should be asked about the bible, no one should challege the authority of communist party
2. Nobody is right except my God, Community party is the ultimate right
3. If you don't believe my God, you are damed. If you don't do what communisty party said, you are in jail.

 

[Liann]

I only said the debate is whether it is a religious institution or not and if the decision is that it is, keep government out of it. "If" you believe in the bible, then you will most likely believe it originated as a sacred religious institution, since Adam and Eve were, according to the bible, the first humans and were the first "marriage". They didn't have a piece of paper though and government sure as heck wasn't involved. It was between them and God. This is where the religious community (at least the Baptist, I can't speak for any of the rest of you) is coming from.

Personally, I think we should all have the same benefits and rights, but I can't understand why aside from that, people need the government to give them a piece of paper that spells out their commitment to each other. Heck, if I hadn't been raised in the church, I probably would still be single!

 

[cindi1]

Hi Cindi -- I realize that that was not the actual direct comparison that the original poster was using, but the analogy is extremely offensive. Look at it this way: if someone was talking about your marriage and your right to marry whomever you wanted to, and they compared your marriage in the same breath to bestiality and pedophilia, wouldn't you be offended?

I don't think the comment was an analogy (maybe semantics here) but the definition of a boundary that the other poster believes in - within the boundary of marriage is man+woman. Outside the boundary is all other types of unions. Now I can see how using those two examples within the same definition as "not marriage" can be offensive. My original point was that the poster was not saying gay=beastiality. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they did intend to say gay is a moral equivilant to beastiality which I certainly could see as offensive.

 

[Liann]

Wow, this sounds so scary. I thought America is freedom of speech, freedom of thinking, freedom of religon. Never thought one God is more righteous than the other, one group of people is more superior to the other just because of different belief.

Being expereienced how community party brain washed people. Now this religion things seemed the same way to me. Here is why I had this feeling:

Religion and Communist Party in smilar
1. No question should be asked about the bible, no one should challege the authority of communist party
2. Nobody is right except my God, Community party is the ultimate right
3. If you don't believe my God, you are damed. If you don't do what communisty party said, you are in jail.

You've got one person on here going to that extreme. Please do not lump us all together and assume she is speaking for us and then compare us to Communism. It's just as offensive as the whole bestiality thing.

 

[silbow]

totally agree

Why is everyone so upset that gays want to be legally married??? Why is it okay for Tom Beatie (still technically a woman since he can give birth) to get married to a woman, but not okay for others???
What do you have to do ... take a crap load of hormones and PRETEND to be the other sex to make it okay????

I am happily married to a man, so this does not really affect me, but what's the big deal?? Why can't gays marry whoever the heck they want?? We all do it. Can we say, NO you can't marry that man who is 20 years older or who may leave you for a younger woman? Do we prohibit marriage for alcoholics, or drug addicts, or sex fiends. I don't neccessarily agree with their life style but who am I to say???

Not all heterosexuals marriage work out and kids get caught in the middle and long divorce and custody issues. What makes that any more right or wrong for a gay couple???

Just really curious
elliemom

I totally agree with you life should be live & let live. I also don't understand why people want to take our "right to choose " away also.

Karen

 

[Vee]

You've got one person on here going to that extreme. Please do not lump us all together and assume she is speaking for us and then compare us to Communism. It's just as offensive as the whole bestiality thing.

Liann,

I got the impression that comment was addressed only to a specific post, not to a group of people.


Vrinda

 

[buffettgirl]

I don't think the comment was an analogy (maybe semantics here) but the definition of a boundary that the other poster believes in - within the boundary of marriage is man+woman. Outside the boundary is all other types of unions. Now I can see how using those two examples within the same definition as "not marriage" can be offensive. My original point was that the poster was not saying gay=beastiality. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they did intend to say gay is a moral equivilant to beastiality which I certainly could see as offensive.

What I believe, and probably didn't say very well, is that sin is sin. It is my belief, based on what the Bible says, that homosexuality is sin. So is gluttony, lying, adultery, murder, beastiality, judging others, etc, etc. I further more believe that sin is sin. There is no degree of sin. I am as guilty of sin as a murderer or a homosexual. I don't that believe calling the union of two men or two woman a "marriage" and making it "legal" makes it any less of a sin.

 

[doodles-n-divas]

Just wanted to share this link...Watch the video if you are so inclined. I think Olbermann makes some good points...But, of course, that is just my opinion!!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27650743/

 

[Liann]

Liann,

I got the impression that comment was addressed only to a specific post, not to a group of people.


Vrinda

Well, she said "Religion" was basically comparable to "Communism", so I took it as an overall attack. I'll have to go read it again.

 

[Beavs]

So Trotsky, Liberace, Jesus, and Manfred von Richtofen (aka the Red Baron) were at a bar when.....
(asks Shelley and Liann to pass what is left of the popcorn)

 

[Liann]

You want the plain buttered or the cheese?