My eating observation

Hey Carole. I'm reading your response and thinking "your before is me now". I eat plenty of the good stuff with chicken,fish and turkey and I need to drop about 10-13 lbs. of body fat. If you don't mind me asking what was your menu like when you dropped the 17lbs. in 6 weeks. (Thats so awesome!)...and what's your meal plan like these days? Thanks in advance for sharing. Dorothy
 
RE: Carole - Vegan Planet ?

>I have another nosey question. How do you vegans make sure
>to get enough calcium and magnesium? I eat an awful lot of
>dairy and I still need to take supplements to keep up with all
>the calcium and magnesium my body seems to need. (I can tell
>because I get leg cramps when my body is low). Is that a
>challenge for you?

Nancy, if I can butt in!
The calcium requirements set by American organizations are based on the typical omnivorious diet eaten by most Americans. The World Health Organization, on the other hand, indicates a much lower number (400 mg/day), which is based on a more plant-based diet. (I find that WHO numbers and suggestions are much more applicable to veg*ns than US recommendations...and much less based on politics and lobbying efforts of manufacturers to have their products sell better).

While calcium is important, vitamin D may be even moreso, as well as other nutrients (boron, magnesium, etc.) that are found in dark green veggies, and avoiding foods and habits that rob the body of minerals by making the body more acidic (and using the minerals that should be in the bones as a buffering agent), like suphur-containg amino acids (which are much more prevalent in animal proteins than proteins from plant sources), excess salt, cola drinks, smoking.

Some "less conventional" foods, like goji berries and maca, are very good sources of calcium, magnesium and other minerals.
 
RE: Carole - Vegan Planet ?

I wonder if
>she has any idea how much calcium a woman's body really needs.

I'd say, on a whole, veg*ns do a LOT more research and reading on nutrition than the typical omnivorous American, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

But if you are concerned, the books "Vegan Nutrition: Pure and Simple" and "Becoming Vegan" are good sourcebooks.
 
Hi Dorothy...I followed the Eat to Live 6 week menu plan. Alot of fruits and veggies, and trying tofu, tempeh and seitan for the first time in my life! I'll try and be accurate as to what my normal day was like back then.:
B: smoothie with 2 cups frozen fruit, 3/4 cup soymilk, 1 T flaxseed, and a scoop of soy or rice protein powder
Snack: fruit
L: leftover soup and a salad consisting of romaine, spinach, tomato, onion, pinto beans and Zesty Italian dressing.(Spectrum)
Snack: walnuts
Dinner: Tofu stirfry, and another salad.
Dessert: another smoothie but without protein powder and flax

These days I am trying alot of recipes from the book I mentioned. Probably only one salad a day but more veggies. Still the same breakfast but I have been making some homemade wheat bread and have tried some tofu sandwiches for lunch along with fruit...Hope this helps...:)..Carole
 
RE: Carole - Vegan Planet ?

I also emotionally can't
>tolerate a lot of fat in my diet. When I see all the nuts and
>tofu and hummus and tahini falafel and (wonderfully delicious)
>stuff that my brother (a vegetarian) eats, I just shudder with
>fear. I think it's left over from my anorexic days. .

Vegan diets don't have to be high-fat at all! In fact, Neil Barnard and (that Dr. who reverses heart disease, but whose name I can't think of off hand?) advocate around 10% of calories from fat (Barnard, with a purely vegan diet, the other dude not completely vegan).
 
RE: Carole - Vegan Planet ?

"The calcium requirements set by American organizations are based on the typical omnivorious diet eaten by most Americans. The World Health Organization, on the other hand, indicates a much lower number (400 mg/day), which is based on a more plant-based diet. (I find that WHO numbers and suggestions are much more applicable to veg*ns than US recommendations...and much less based on politics and lobbying efforts of manufacturers to have their products sell better)."

Kathryn-

I get awful leg and foot cramps unless I consume relatively high dosages of calcium, magnesium, D and potassium. Also, so many of my Mom's friends suffer from osteoporosis, I would be afraid to decrease my levels. I'm also the PERFECT candidate for osteoporosis, so I have to be very careful.

-Nancy
 
RE: Carole - Vegan Planet ?

>"The calcium requirements set by American organizations are
>based on the typical omnivorious diet eaten by most Americans.
>The World Health Organization, on the other hand, indicates a
>much lower number (400 mg/day), which is based on a more
>plant-based diet. (I find that WHO numbers and suggestions are
>much more applicable to veg*ns than US recommendations...and
>much less based on politics and lobbying efforts of
>manufacturers to have their products sell better)."
>

>
>I get awful leg and foot cramps unless I consume relatively
>high dosages of calcium, magnesium, D and potassium. Also, so
>many of my Mom's friends suffer from osteoporosis, I would be
>afraid to decrease my levels. I'm also the PERFECT candidate
>for osteoporosis, so I have to be very careful.
>

If I were vegetarian who was a perfect candidate for osteoporosis I would most definitely take a calcium supplement, that is if I didn't have a pre-existing condition that said I should not. Soy, beans, leafy greens, legumes and nuts contain compounds called phytates and oxalates which bind with calcium preventing your cells from getting access. For example, most of the calcium in spinach is blocked by oxalates ...anywhere up to 92%-95%. The additional fiber in the diet can also interfere with the absorption as well.

Good luck Nancy and stay well!!

Robin:9
 
RE: Carole - Vegan Planet ?

>If I were vegetarian I would most definitely take a calcium
>supplement, that is if I didn't have a pre-existing condition
>that said I should not. Soy, beans, leafy greens, legumes and
>nuts contain compounds called phytates and oxalates which bind
>with calcium preventing your cells from getting access. For
>example, most of the calcium in spinach is blocked by oxalates
>...anywhere up to 92%-95%. The additional fiber in the diet
>can also interfere with the absorption as well.
>
>Good luck Nancy and stay well!!
>
>Robin:9

I also found this about calcium absorption:

Read the label on your tofu container to see if it is processed with calcium sulfate or nigari. Note: Oxalic acid, which is found in spinach, rhubarb, chard, and beet greens is often said to bind with calcium and reduce absorption. These foods should not be considered good sources of calcium. Calcium in other green vegetables, like kale, collard greens, Chinese mustard greens, and Chinese cabbage flower leaves is well absorbed. Fiber appears to have little effect on calcium absorption except for the fiber in wheat bran which does have a small effect Sources: Composition of Foods. USDA Nutrient Data Base for Standard Reference, Release 12, 1998. Manufacturer's information.

...:)...Carole
 
RE: Carole - Vegan Planet ?

Excessive amounts of fiber can interfere with absorption by pushing it through the digestive tract too rapidly and yes, it does depend on the fiber.
Robin
 
RE: Carole - Vegan Planet ?

>I get awful leg and foot cramps unless I consume relatively
>high dosages of calcium, magnesium, D and potassium. Also, so
>many of my Mom's friends suffer from osteoporosis, I would be
>afraid to decrease my levels. I'm also the PERFECT candidate
>for osteoporosis, so I have to be very careful.

Your body is definitely telling you that you need certain levels of these nutrients, and I am a firm believer that our bodies know what's best if we listen to them.
 
I've read a lot of material by Drs. Neal Barnard, Dean Ornish, and John McDougall (as other readers on this post have) which discusses the very topic of calcium and vegetarian diets. You will definitely find this post intresting. http://www.bright.net/~phodgdon/nutrition/malkmus/unlearn2.htm

I was converted on the topic when I learned of the eating habits of other nations. Have you ever been to Japan? You can not buy milk, it is very hard to find and they do not eat cheese, at the same time they eat very little beef and chicken yet their rate of osteoperosis is significantly less than in the US.
 
RE: Carole - Vegan Planet ?

>
>Vegan diets don't have to be high-fat at all! In fact, Neil
>Barnard and (that Dr. who reverses heart disease, but whose
>name I can't think of off hand?) advocate around 10% of
>calories from fat (Barnard, with a purely vegan diet, the
>other dude not completely vegan).


Kathryn, are you thinking of Dean Ornish?

Debra
 
I had didn't eat any meat this weekend, and I wanted to share how I am feeling, but first I want to thank everyone who has responded on this thread, especially Carole and Kathryn, for taking the time to share your knowledge about veganism and offer guidance. I just finished reading all the posts from this weekend, and I have never been more convinced being a vegetarian is the lifestyle I want to lead, so thank you so much, you guys! :) And thank you Lorrie for starting this thread! It has really been helpful in my life!

Okay, now for my observation I feel wonderful! I don't feel "stuffed" (I never realized that I did!) and when I am done eating, I don't get that "heavy" feeling in my stomach that I did when I ate a burger or chicken breast (which, again, I never knew that I had.) I made chili yesterday for some people who came over to watch the game, and I set aside some chili for myself before the meat got thrown in and I added some extra onions and diced up some green peppers. I felt fine after I was finished with my chili, but the other adults were holding their stomachs saying, "that was good, boy am I stuffed! I just want to sit and relax" I thought mine was great, but though I was full I didn't feel stuffed AT ALL, and I could move around when I was done. I didnt' realize how bad I felt the past 9 years until now! I did my workout this morning, and I didn't want to stop! It is really amazing! I really feel "lighter", if that makes any sense.

I know that I will not be able to eat another cow, pig, or chicken ever again. It has only been a weekend, but someone has already made comments to me, not so nice ones, about not eating meat and my family are big meat eaters so I know that I will hear it from them. How do you guys handle other's remarks tactfully and politely? I don't want to say what I am really thinking because I don't want to turn anyone away from this lifestyle and I would really like to see more people do it. Any advice there?

THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!

Missy
 
>I know that I will not be able to eat another cow, pig, or
>chicken ever again. It has only been a weekend, but someone
>has already made comments to me, not so nice ones, about not
>eating meat and my family are big meat eaters so I know that I
>will hear it from them. How do you guys handle other's
>remarks tactfully and politely? I don't want to say what I am
>really thinking because I don't want to turn anyone away from
>this lifestyle and I would really like to see more people do
>it. Any advice there?
>
>THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!
>
>Missy

Missy...sounds like you had an awesome weekend! Thank you for sharing..I completely understand the "light" feeling after eating a Vegan meal. As far as the not so nice comments. I get those too and most of the time ignore them, but as I can get a bit sarcastic I fire back something not so nice...Kathryn might have a much better approach! I just got a book called The Vegansource Book, and I am hoping that will help me with certain situations...:)...Carole
 
Ahhhhh - Missy I'm so glad to hear that someone else knows what I mean. When I started this thread I said there was a "lightness" - tho not necessarily a weight loss lightness that I had experienced and I loved it! And now you know it! And it doesn't take any time to adjust to that feeling! Isn't is amazing!? And then there's that energy that comes with those extra "from the earth foods" - that's incredible! I know exactly what you mean about anticipating the family reaction. But I think "go ahead - criticize if you wish, but you're not going to have this feeling that I do". I agree - Carole and Kathryn are invaluable with their guidance! Thanks to all of you.

Lorrie
 
RE: Carole - Vegan Planet ?

>Kathryn, are you thinking of Dean Ornish?
>
>Debra
Yep, that's the one! Thanks!
 
Missy

Missy, I'm wondering why anyone would think it appropriate to criticize your food choices if they didn't want their own choices to be fair game? This probably doesn't help much with family. I suspect you would have to slowly educate them if your pursue this.

Crumbled tempah in chili & marinara sauce is terrific. Quality protein & it's got plenty of texture. I don't think many would even guess that it's vegetarian.

Debra
 
>I know that I will not be able to eat another cow, pig, or
>chicken ever again. It has only been a weekend, but someone
>has already made comments to me, not so nice ones, about not
>eating meat and my family are big meat eaters so I know that I
>will hear it from them. How do you guys handle other's
>remarks tactfully and politely? I don't want to say what I am
>really thinking because I don't want to turn anyone away from
>this lifestyle and I would really like to see more people do
>it. Any advice there?
>
Ä great book that addresses this is "Vegan Freak." It's available from www.veganessentials.com .

One dynamic that you will have to get used to is that your eating habits will be brought up by others (often at mealtime), in a way that THEY would be annoyed at having their eating habits commented on. Happens time and time again. And while their comments and even sometimes snide remarks often border on, or even go beyond, being rude, we owe it to ourselves to keep our cool. Otherwise, if you take the bait, you represent ALL vegetarians/vegans and are seen in a negative light ("Vegan Freak" really deals with that common dynamoic well, and I highly recommend it. As do some books by Carol(e?) Adams. There is also a book out with a title something like "being vegan in a non-vegan world" that would have some advice as well) It helps, I find, to see the words on the page, and know that I am not alone, and I am not the only one experiencing this. It's easier to blow off the comments.

The best way to handle things is just be a good role model. Don't push your diet on anyone (even if they ask, don't give them as much info as you'd like, unless they pursue it again, or unless they are asking about recipes, etc.) You kind of have to wait for them to come to you. It's hard, I know,, especially at first (new "converts" to any new lifestyle often are the most proactive in wanting others to convert). I try to do this myself,even though inside, I'm often thinking "how can you eat X, Y,Z? Don't you see how disgusting it is>" Or "you supposedly love animals, and are a kind and compasionate person. How can you not see that compassion should be extended to all life?" But I hold that inside. It takes a while to learn to be more diplomatic. www.veganoutreach.com has some info as well.
 
Kathryn-
My DH downloaded some vegan podcasts for our recent trip and one of the shows was called "veganfreak". It was basically a couple casting from their basement, talking about vegan issues and giving interviews etc. They mentioned that they had a book out and I'm wondering if it's the one you mentioned above. It actually was a good show, if you don't mind swearing.

I would also agree with your statements about whether or not to "defend" the vegan lifestyle. It's very tempting to take every opportunity and turn it into a lesson on why everyone should become a vegan but it's just not practical. While I firmly believe everyone should live this way, I can't make it happen on my own. I just give my reasons and let people make up their own minds without being pushy. It's not always easy,(and sometimes I really want to be blunt), but I think it's the best way to go.

Carolyn
 
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