Appalled With How Federal Government Handled Katrina Disaster

RE: Appalled With How Federal Government Handled Katrin...

>
>I wonder how long it took for all 75 of these posts to be
>typed and read by hundreds of women. What could you have been
>doing in all that time that would have HELPED the victims
>rather than sat here and spouted all the hindsighted wisdom
>(from both sides) that doesn't really help in the long run??


How do you know that the people who have participated in this thread haven't taken the time and effort to help the victims of Katrina? You took the time to post in this thread and you have made efforts to help the victims, it stands to reason that so have most of the others posters in this thread.

People wouldn't be posting their concerns if they didn't care.
 
RE: Appalled With How Federal Government Handled Katrin...

Absolutely, you may discuss the topic but that's not what your post did. You suggested we quit wasting breath, figuratively speaking, and do something. But we want to vent and talk about our displeasure with the Bush Admimistation or the opposite. And there's a time and a place for that and we need no one to chide us for doing it, particularly since it's keeping you from what you might be doing to help, hmmm? We are adults. Get real. Did you expect no one to say what I am saying? I have wasted my time here on the inane, the silly the fun and I have had some very serious and deep discussions, this one included. I take issue to anyone telling me to go and do something since my discussion is fruitless. I decide what I need to say or not and I am letting you know that's how I feel.

Edited to say: I wondered how long it would be before you touted your do gooding as I was upstairs prparing a bath, and good for you but I don't do that. I wouldn't want to be perceived as a braggert and it is my actions, not my words, particularly a category of my deeds, which is important.
Bobbi http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif "Chick's rule!"

Tell me, what it is you plan to do with your one wild and precious life? -Mary Oliver
 
RE: Appalled With How Federal Government Handled Katrin...

<There's an element of discrimination against the poor>

This is my initial impression too. I came from a poor family... I have worked with those living in poverty... the discrimination is real.
 
RE: Appalled With How Federal Government Handled Katrin...

"How do you know that the people who have participated in this thread haven't taken the time and effort to help the victims of Katrina? You took the time to post in this thread and you have made efforts to help the victims, it stands to reason that so have most of the others posters in this thread.
People wouldn't be posting their concerns if they didn't care."

Exactly! There are some unfair assumptions made. It is amazing what I can accomplish and still find the time to socialize on these forums. Most of the participants in this thread seem to be searching for answers to countless whys.

"I think we SHOULD be scared, because it could be any one of us, no matter where we live, or who is in the oval office."

Yep, one of the reasons IMHO that we need to address some serious issues and problems with the response to this disaster. All levels of government are subject to constructive critcism... though there are some emotional responses on this thread... but at least people care.
 
It is against the law for any President to order troops into a city or across state lines without a request and permission from the Governor of that state.

John Armor, a First Amendment lawyer stated, "Federal law prevents the President from sending in the National Guard until the Governor gives the order." It is little known, but the Commanding General of the National Guard in every state reports to the Governor, not the President, until the Governor says otherwise. U.S. military units (regular Army, not the Guard) cannot be used because of the Posse Comitatus law, until the Guard has been authorized."
 
RE: Appalled With How Federal Government Handled Katrin...

By the way, you may perceive my post as an angry tirade but it's far from it. I read your post, cocked a brow and snorted. If you are trying to guilt us out, forget that. You are wasting your time. And you may think we are wasting ours but if we don't, then we don't. Period. There are so many things we can all do right here from this very keyboard, perhaps in the middle of a discussion about the whole sad thing. I live in Arizona so I have no physical access to the victims but you have no idea of my level of activism for the poor other than I have concerns for them. It's kind of nervy of you to make assupmtions about any of us, don't you think? I do. My response to your post was who does this woman think she is and what right has she to tell us to spend "all that time and anger and EFFORT, and clean out your closets, garages, and attics and took stuff down to the Salvation Army or Goodwill" when you know not what we do or don't do in such times as these. You had a confrontation disclaimer at the beginning of your post, so, I daresay, you were going for that effect. I am simply delivering the confrontation you seek. I don't feel stung or compelled to change a thing about myself because your vent because I do know what I can do when these things happen. Heaven knows we have had a lot of practice since 9/11, the Tsunami. I know many of these woman very well and I feel certain they are making the differences they can and without being treated like children, told to shut up and do something. You know nothing about my level of compassion and the actions I have taken so why are you telling me how to do my part or do more than just grouse about W and his mishandling of the situation, an opinon I am entitled to have in this a country which allows free speech? I was ready for this confrontation instantly. I think you are quite out of line to suggest that we are not doing our part. You don't know that. We need to talk aobut this. It helps us come to terms with our own sense of sorrow and powerlessness in the wake of a disaster of such proportions. We share our anger, our sorrow and we pass on our hope that we can do any little thing that will make someone out there feel better, find consolation or move on as it would seem you have been doing. I need no one to teach me that or to take me on for finding the current admistration tried and found wanting. If you throw out contoversy, you get it thrown back. I don't feel I misinterpreted your intention to opine we were wasting breath and could be doing more if we'd just shut up, did I?
Bobbi http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif "Chick's rule!"

Tell me, what it is you plan to do with your one wild and precious life? -Mary Oliver,
 
That loophole should be quickly dispatched then and the Guard brought in. That's one phone call, I'd think. Possibly two. Don't tell me the President couldn't make that happen in a heartbeat. We went into Iraq under completely false pretenses and a pack of lies, so anything is possible. This is a joke. Desperate times call for desparte measures and getting what needs doing done, now. There'd be no repercussions if that was disregarded, particularly if it helped those in need. That part of the South looks like the Third World and lives are at stake. I can't believe this is unfolding as it is. It truly is appalling.
Bobbi http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif "Chick's rule!"

Tell me, what it is you plan to do with your one wild and precious life? -Mary Oliver
 
>That loophole should be quickly dispatched then and the Guard
>brought in. That's one phone call, I'd think. Possibly two.
>Don't tell me the President couldn't make that happen in a
>heartbeat. We went into Iraq under completely false pretenses
>and a pack of lies, so anything is possible. This is a joke.
>Desperate times call for desparte measures and getting what
>needs doing done, now. There'd be no repercussions if that
>was disregarded, particularly if it helped those in need.
>That part of the South looks like the Third World and lives
>are at stake. I can't believe this is unfolding as it is. It
>truly is appalling.
>Bobbi http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif
>"Chick's rule!"
>
>Tell me, what it is you plan to do with your one wild and
>precious life? -Mary Oliver
I would like to start this by saying that I get your anger because it is heartbreaking and it is frusterating watching all that horror on tv and feeling helpless to stop it. That being said, seriously what are you accomplishing with your communication? If you don't like the law then do something to change it. The law is what it is it makes no mention of in case of emergency ignore this and do that.
 
Look, at the end of the day the president holds the highest power in the nation (if not in the world). When it comes to a catastrophic event such as this, all local, national, whatever government should cease to exist. This is a critical moment of life or death. The president should LEAD us. That is what he is supposed to do. BE A LEADER. I don't care what the mayor, governer, bla bla bla is supposed to do at at the local level. MR. president; LEAD US! He failed completely!!!!!!! My co-workers and I (many who are right wingers) were disgusted that he was here in Arizona on Tuesday having sandwiches at a retirement community while people were desparately fighting for their very existence in the south!! Why didn't he cancel his AZ and CA meetings to address these people??????
Again, I don't give a rats a$$ about protocol; this is a catastrophe!!! If you have the power above all, for the love of god use it correctly!!

Enough said.
 
DB1,

Yup. He's supposed to be our LEADER. All the excuses that have been made for him I wonder what exactly people expect from him...to sit by and wait for protocol to happen before he does anything. He certainly didn't wait for the United Nations to okay our move into Iraq...he totally disregarded that protocol.

And all of you who say we shouldn't place blame. That's just plain ignorance. If you don't get to the bottom of a problem, how do you fix it? Bush sure didn't wast time blaming Iraq and forging into war with Iraq on mere assumption.

Look, I live in Central Florida and when the hurricanes rolled in last year, I watched our communities turn upside down. Some of the communities in the SE part of Orlando will never be the same. After two of those hurricanes, we were out of power for hours, my mother lost hers for a week but I could not convince her to leave her house. It's hot as hell this time of year. I'm talking average highs of almost 100 degrees and the humidity is stifling. People were scurrying for ice to keep whatever food they had from going bad. No one new how long they would be without some of the basic necessities. Until you live through it you have no idea how it feels. I cannot even fathom what the Katrina victims are going through and I don't want to.

Like someone said earlier. Evacuate...evacuate where? Most of those people had no place to go. I guess it's a good thing that most people have no idea how it is to be that poor but it's sad that there is so little empathy for the lowest socio economic area of the nation.
 
To be clear: I am a Dutch national.

But as a member of the international community watching what is going on in New Orleans and other areas, I do have a question.

The international community has offered lots of help: goods, medical teams, evacuation choppers and teams, etc. One of our own navy vessels is on it's way to you from Curacao (which is close) with two medical teams on board and choppers and even boats suited to go on shallow waters. My government still hasn't heard whether this help is welcome.My government also offered to send identification teams (they've been to all major disaster areas worldwide), to help ID all the deceased as quickly as possible so families can be informed. No respons yet. Why?

I just heard on your very own CNN that your government still hasn't decided whether or not to except all this international help. WHY do they need to take days and days to think about accepting humanitarian help from the international community and still haven't decided???? BTW, I double checked this on other news channels.

Note: they did immediately accept the oil reserves of the European community for the next 30 days when offered.

Dutchie
 
RE: Appalled With How Federal Government Handled Katrin...

Yeah, I am calling them PIGS because they're raping women, little girls and little boys. I guess you don't care about that part. Makes you cold hearted as well. They're pigs because they're stealing from other people. I don't care about food, I'd steal food for my 2 young children but I won't steal tv, dvd players, jewelries, etc. Where the hell are they going to sell those things?? They can't even get out. If you're feeling so bad for them, why don't you go down to NO and help them out? Why don't you open your home to them?? You don't trust them, that is why. You are one very negative person. I've seen your posts many times and it's almost always negative. I guess you're not a happy person, eh??

And 0 Push Ups, I like your post.

You women are making me laugh. Blame it all on Bush. That is one way to go. Bush is not responsible, the mayor and the gov'ner are responsible. The government in NO is so corrupted I wouldn't be surprised if there will be problems down the road. Like I said, I personally don't give a frog's fat ass if NO is wiped out. History or not. There are plenty, plenty of historical sites in this country especially in Virginia, Wash. DC, so on.

And YES, there's a reason why the military is in Iraq. REMEMBER SEPTEMBER 11, 2001??????????????????????? It will happen again if we don't do a thing about it and we're doing a thing right now. I guess you all don't care these nasty losers are blowing up their own kind. What kind of an animal would drag a corpse around while driving and hang the corpse over a bridge and shoot it?? Americans are not animals like that. It's people who are so full of hatred who does that. You ladies might want to think about that. What happens if the terrorists attack us again, they steal your children, shoot your husbands, etc? You'd want to go to war, right? Knowing some of you...You'd probably convert to Islam.
 
RE: Appalled With How Federal Government Handled Katrin...

ZT27,

It appears you're addressing someone specific but it isn't clear to me who that is.
 
RE: Appalled With How Federal Government Handled Katrin...

Yes, I am addressing to someone in specific and no, it is not you.
 
RE: Appalled With How Federal Government Handled Katrin...

>I'm not usually confrontational on boards, so I'll just say
>this.
>
>I wonder how long it took for all 75 of these posts to be
>typed and read by hundreds of women. What could you have been
>doing in all that time that would have HELPED the victims
>rather than sat here and spouted all the hindsighted wisdom
>(from both sides) that doesn't really help in the long run??
>Is some top government official going to read the Cathe forums
>and find some insight in one of our monologues? Does it make
>you feel better to point fingers and debate which side was the
>sinner? What if you spent all that time and anger and EFFORT,
>and cleaned out your closets, garages, and attics and took
>stuff down to the Salvation Army or Goodwill. Even if your
>things don't get used directly by a hurricane victim you'll be
>helping someone else in need. If you think things have been
>handled so horribly, step away from the keyboard and do
>something about it. Words don't help right now, hearts and
>hands are what's going to help these people. If I had a
>dollar for every word in this thread I bet I could set up a
>displaced hurricane family for a month.

Excuse me, but do you know these people are NOT doing something. Has anyone here said that they are NOT doing something. This type of statement are the things that cause problems. This actually has been a learning discussions. Buttercup has pointed out the inaccuracies in some posts and backed it up with links. It has caused me to look up more information on New Orleans and wetlands and how the region has been affected in the last 100 years.

I was on the Red Cross site very early last week donating a good sum of money, and plan on continuing that every paycheck. That is what is said is needed most.. so don't judge something you don't know.

This will be a long term thing, so one thing we all have to do, is not forget these people in a month, two months.
 
RE: Appalled With How Federal Government Handled Katrin...

>Absolutely, you may discuss the topic but that's not what
>your post did. You suggested we quit wasting breath,
>figuratively speaking, and do something. But we want to vent
>and talk about our displeasure with the Bush Admimistation or
>the opposite. And there's a time and a place for that and we
>need no one to chide us for doing it, particularly since it's
>keeping you from what you might be doing to help, hmmm? We
>are adults. Get real. Did you expect no one to say what I am
>saying? I have wasted my time here on the inane, the silly
>the fun and I have had some very serious and deep discussions,
>this one included. I take issue to anyone telling me to go
>and do something since my discussion is fruitless. I decide
>what I need to say or not and I am letting you know that's how
>I feel.
>
>Edited to say: I wondered how long it would be before you
>touted your do gooding as I was upstairs prparing a bath, and
>good for you but I don't do that. I wouldn't want to be
>perceived as a braggert and it is my actions, not my words,
>particularly a category of my deeds, which is important.
>Bobbi http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif
>"Chick's rule!"
>
>Tell me, what it is you plan to do with your one wild and
>precious life? -Mary Oliver


AMEN
 
I'm not sure why it's taking so long for the government to accept help from the Dutch or any other country. The oil may be easy because it's something...but people on the ground or help...DH told me of a group of law officers that got themselves together and started south, hoping to get the authorization to respond to a call for help from the Jefferson Parrish police, then when they finally got back in touch with someone, they were told to forget it and had to turn around and go home. So we have folks asking for help and then saying don't bother????? And this is the local authorities.

Yes, it would be lovely for the feds to override and overrule the local authorities, but would it be wise? And once the federal government starts that sort of action, where would it stop? I'm not sure I'd want any president making decisions that our governor or mayor is better equipped to make. And we're almost in D.C.'s backyard here!

But I do appreciate the help being offered by other countries and hope, as it's needed, it will be accepted and appreciated. Just the offering of help is wonderful.
 
Dutch you have valid questions, and there may be reasons we don't know about such as dealing with National security and such. I don't know, and these questions will need to be answered.

Government has gotten too big and saying that the President should have instantly superceded the rule the states having domain is not really thinking through it. I don't think it is easy as saying it and it is done. There has to be congressional votes on policy change.

In Buttercups links, it was mentioned more than once that the President called the Gov and begged her to evacuate on Saturday, so he was watching the situation, but it is the states who have to handle their evacuation plans. And yes, I think that afterwards, things should have moved quicker from the Feds when it was clear that the Gov and Mayor were in over their heads. The Department of Homeland Security dropped the ball on this one, and the big boss is the President.

Last night on the news they interviewed a man from the suburbs who begged for rescues in the outlining suburbs that are flooded. He felt no one was out there rescuing people off their roofs because so much attention was being put on the inner city and the burbs were being ignore. The burbs are predominately white. Perhaps this man had agenda(I think he did, pointing out the race card was reversed here), but what this proved to me is that the disaster is so vast, it is impossible to get to everyone. The articles I found were chilling, written years ago and predicting exactly what happened, they even said, people will be stranded on roof tops for 4-5 days without food and water, and in the city for 4-5 days without food and water because the logistics of rescuing them is so hard. They also predicted up to 40,000 dead. Let's hope that number is wrong.

I feel NO did not have a good evacuation plan for these people. I bet the numbers in that city at the time of the hurricane will turn out to be 500,000 or more. That is NOT a successful evacuation. I don't know the regions politics well enough, but from what I am reading, it is one of the poorest in the country. There should have been a plan to get those people out, and it appears on the surface that it was left up to them. They said it was mandatory, but that many people left shows that it was not thoroughly checked to see if the mandatory evacuation was followed. And Sunday as I watched people file into the Superdome knowing that food, water and bathroom facilities were inadaquate, I just shuddered. If I could see that from where I was sitting 1000 miles away, why did the local government not see that?

I do think that this area is so vast, and the added hinderance of the flood and the gangs has added to this. None of the prediction articles predicted that people would be sniping at hospital evacuations. That small faction of people maybe should be left in the city(sorry, not nice, but geez).
 
I don't know. I am not sure there is anything for me TO get. Maybe it
is just as you say, anger and frustration among the other churned up emotions that come and go. Perhaps its a quick trip through the Stages of Grief: Denial, depression, anger acceptance in as much as these things can be accepted. If you ask my family, they might tell you I have been confrontational for a few days and who can say why? It's very tricky doing that on the page too. I realized I might very well "sound" like a raving loony! I don't want to sound callous and say I don't care but I don't feel badly about putting that out there and if someone thinks that makes me terrible or that the negativity adds to the negativity that may very well be true. Heck, it could be how very deaf the ears one contacts to try to change things seem to because one gets those form letters in response and wonders if one's input actually ever gets where it's intended to go. That has never stopped me from trying and I love to write. :) If I find myslelf wishing this was going better I hear my own voice saying if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.... I have always believed we should be able to get to this point on the boards and handle it even without it escalating into the infamous flame war when someone's response pushes one of our buttons because conflict is quite normal and venting is actaully quite good for us if we stay within boundaries. Of course, that's subjective so at some point, I may overstep yours or you mine, unwittingly. How do we act when the subject gets uncomfortable and angry? Some just move on and some don't. Maybe I should but...:) I know I'll make someone angry if I say, well Bush is a fascist, and even that old fascist Mussolini could get his trains to run on time. The Administration has incredible power, why aren't we doing this well when it's so imortant? You are right though. My primary emotion is frustration because I do feel powerless and I am sad and worried and that makes hopeful hard to come by. But also, I heard that Americans have donated at a rate unheard of even during some of these disasters of late and I know there are very many people doing many wonderful things to help and it will get sorted out but with much loss of life, some which could have been prevented. And we learn to deal with it but it's a process, a slow and painful one at that!

Also there's an unsubscribe button at the top of the page or Cathe will think we are getting too heated and shut us down and that's fine too. I'll be blabbering away until it runs it's course. I am such a blabberer! ;)
Bobbi http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif "Chick's rule!"

Tell me, what it is you plan to do with your one wild and precious life? -Mary Oliver
 
RE: Appalled With How Federal Government Handled Katrin...

With all the anger and the blaming going on here--does everyone recognize that we're talking about the total devastation of an area the size of England? Imagine a tsunami sweeping over England and the destruction and chaos that would ensue. Chertoff, who is Secretary of Homeland Security, said the level of the destruction is as if there was a hurricane and THEN someone dropped an atomic bomb on the area. I know that emotions are running high and many people are angry, but it helps to take a step back and recognize the enormous and unprecedented level of destruction that Katrina caused.
 
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