Economic Crisis

Actually, from my stand point, while the markets are falling, and everything seems to be collapsing around us, as they say, it is always darkest before the dawn. This is actually a sensational buying opportunity because your dollar is going so much further than it would have a year ago.


Hmmmm, tell that to the waitress who I just met yesterday at my local gas station who put $ 3 in her tank to get her to work hoping she makes enough tips so she can buy the gas to get back home after work.

Tell that to the over 9 Mio Americans who are unemployed, additional 6.4 Mio who have taken part time jobs just to keep them afloat while they can't find full time work and those millions and millions of people who hang on by a very thin thread and are just one paycheck away from foreclosure and bankrupcy. I am sure they have money under their matresses that they can use for buying in a stock market that is in turmoil and running a risk that they could be losing it because no one knows how much worse this is going to get and how many more sectors will be effected and which well established company could go belly up.

But hey, it's a great opportunity for those who have extra money sitting around.
 
We are in a terrible economic crisis and I don't think we've hit rock bottom yet. It's very frightening. I'm a Fed and there's concern that certain parts of our retirement savings plan may go under. Can you imagine losing your retirement money?

The key is diversify, diversify, diversify. Don't put all your money in one location. Educate yourself as to what's the best course of action for you.

...and keep your fingers crossed we start the upswing soon...
 
People panicking and pulling their money out of the market helped cause Lehman's collapse (among a laundry list of other things).

I thought that the collapse of Lehman was caused by mismanagement, bad investment strategies and the fact that other banks refused to trade with them due to their $ 60 Bio in soured real estate holdings.

Do you think those panickers should have kept their money there and waited so Lehman could prolong it's Chapter 11 bankruptcy for a month or two so those people could have lost their last penny.
 
Well, I see that today greet's us with more good news...the gov't (which is really US, *we the people*) is giving AIG an $85 Billion bail out. Again, no political leanings...but gosh! I wish I had one of those money printing machines in my basement! Apparently, as long as you have paper and ink, you have money? Somehow my bank missed that memo...just b/c I have checks left doesn't mean I have money left. Or does it today? ;)

Ok, for those of you in the industry...2 quick questions....
Wachovia is on the edge.....I have my checking account there, trust me there is only money in there for a few days each month, but should I switch to the monster of all banks BofA to be safe?

Also, I read there was some dispute where to read and gain information due to sensationalism, political view points, etc. SO, where do you get *just the facts, ma'am?* I have a politico/pundit whom I listen to daily, but I do realize that everyone's speech is affected at some level by their political leanings. This individual (see how carefully I try to conceal my politics? ;)) is very down to earth and I feel quite accurate (as proven over the happenings of the past months) yet, I would like to become better educated and want info that would let me draw my own conclusions. Any ideas?

Hang in there everyone. We're in for a bumpy ride!

Becky
 
Everything has risks, it seems. I would hate to make a suggestion and it be the wrong one! =]

Charles Payne (WStreet/Fox Business) and Suze Orman (NBC) are good sources. I listen to the two and find like-messages...
 
Carola - brilliant - well said.

You want non-spin - learn to read an annual report., the I/E ratios and stock trends (great old book is How to Buy Stocks) and pull out the reports of major corporations - learn the contracts that the ceo's and their cronies on boards have compacted and banked in foreign banks - so aggregious that Switzerland is now no longer going to shield American business heads - national security is threatened by these evil greedy people......check out the investments of major corporations - that is sombering - why the Fed HAS to bail out AIG or corporation after corporation can fold - and by the way - your employer can yank your pension at will - guaranteeing it would put "undo pressure on business" and that has been unchallenged by the Republicans and I haven't seen anything or heard outrage from anyone except John Edwards and may Barack (but we don't want an adulterer in office - oh the pain!)...I've been lax on writing to the senate and congress, but spent 3 weeks home with bum shoulders and spent time reading.
And its horrifying.....
 
I wish I had one of those money printing machines in my basement! Apparently, as long as you have paper and ink, you have money? Somehow my bank missed that memo...just b/c I have checks left doesn't mean I have money left. Or does it today? ;)

Ha, you too? Someone must have stolen my money printing machine :D Better go and find the thief!!!

This is where I usually look in no particular order

  • Motley Fool
  • Barron's
  • Wall Street Journal
  • Bizjournals.com
  • Business Week
  • Forbes
  • Market Watch
  • Reuters
  • Associated Press
 
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Carola - brilliant - well said.

Where I went for non-spin - reading and understanding an annual report., the I/E ratios and stock trends (great old book is How to Buy Stocks) and pull out the reports of major corporations - learn the contracts that the ceo's and their cronies on boards have compacted and banked in foreign banks - so aggregious that Switzerland is now no longer going to shield American business heads - national security is threatened by these evil greedy people......check out the investments of major corporations - that is sombering - why the Fed HAS to bail out AIG or corporation after corporation can fold - and by the way - your employer can yank your pension at will - guaranteeing it would put "undo pressure on business" and that has been unchallenged by the Republicans and I haven't seen anything or heard outrage from anyone except John Edwards and may Barack (but we don't want an adulterer in office - oh the pain!)...I've been lax on writing to the senate and congress, but spent 3 weeks home with bum shoulders and spent time reading.
And its horrifying.....
 
Carola,

Thanks for the massive attack on my post. I didn't want to get into detail, but I guess your criticism warrents a response. Lehman has a short term funding crisis where lenders pulled their loans, and customers pulled their cash. Their leverage was at almost 30 times equity, thus the more leverage they have, the less room assets have to fall to wipe out its equity. Lehman recently redefined tangible equity on it's balance sheet. Previously, it had a cap on the percentage of “perpetual preferred stock,” a form of equity-like debt that doesn’t have a maturity date, in its equity. Now, it doesn’t have a cap.

You mean everyone in America doesn't have extra money laying around?? Get out of town!!! Geez, that wasn't meant to be a blanket statement. I specifically work with high net worth investors who DO have extra cash, so for THEM it is a good opportunity. But again, thanks for jumping down my throat, it was fun.

Becky, it depends how much money you have in your checking accout. If it is less than $100,000 in cash it is covered by FDIC insurance. So if Wachovia does go under your assets will be covered.
 
Nicole, I knew what you meant. I just heard (twice, actually) on the news yesterday, "This is the time when millionaires are made."



As for unbiased reporting, I have no clue who's blowing smoke and who isn't.
 
Carola, you are a dear. I'm visiting with a credit counselor tomorrow and taking along what you've said here. I'm not committing to anything yet, while I go over my options and meet with counselors and attorneys, but I'll let you know.


I have heard, and maybe others can confirm or deny, that signing up for credit counselors such as these are almost as rough on your credit as filing for bankruptcy. They do assist in negotiating lower interest rates and eliminating the collection calls, setting budgets and building money management skills, etc... but I have also heard that they don't really do much more than you could do with a few well-rehearsed calls to your creditors. just be careful!

IMHO for the majority of us who have had to rebuild from a financial crisis, there were many other extenuating circumstances that caused us to stumble (divorce, medical bills, etc) other than not being able to balance a checkbook or use credit responsibly.

http://financialplan.about.com/cs/creditdebt/a/CreditCounselor.htm (see last paragraph :)
 
Thanks Nicole! I guess I am VERRRRRRRRRRRY safe, as I'm lucky to have $10 before payday!:D
Dumb question, I'm sure, but what happens when the banks fail, they just cease to exist? or if someone swoops in to buy them (BofA comes to mind) does your account automatically become one of theirs?
Hm? :confused:The fact that I'm asking these questions might be an answer in itself!

ETA:As for your investment advice, my 20 year old son is dying to make some extra income to invest! He's very money savvy and wants to become one of those *self-made* millionaires by 40! So I also understood your point. Just wish I could be one of those with *extra* right now. I'm not complaining though, today we have a roof over our head, hubby has a job (not sure for how long, BUT today he's employed, )the power is on, gas in the cars, food in the cupboard, but it is frightening at how much money it takes to continue to keep those things.
Carola, I also get where you were coming from, Most of us don't have anything *extra*, but Nicole was just stating that if a person did have some extra money, now is a definite buyer's market.

I think most of us are in the same boat so let's not get upset with eachother. It's incredibly difficult for most of us to get by so we need eachother's support than ever!


Thanks everyone else for the source info!

Becky
 
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OK... we haven't hit rock bottom yet. I think it's coming. What can a person do to prepare? I know it's probably not much time and too little resource, but I want to be a little bit ahead. Do you stash cash, if you can? Stocks? CDs? I'm clueless... and scared.
 
I keep noticing the comment that 'if you have xtra money, now is a great time to buy.' Buy what?:eek:

Thanks for your help!


Cathy
 
Carola,

Carola,

Thanks for the massive attack on my post. I didn't want to get into detail, but I guess your criticism warrents a response. Lehman has a short term funding crisis where lenders pulled their loans, and customers pulled their cash. Their leverage was at almost 30 times equity, thus the more leverage they have, the less room assets have to fall to wipe out its equity. Lehman recently redefined tangible equity on it's balance sheet. Previously, it had a cap on the percentage of “perpetual preferred stock,” a form of equity-like debt that doesn’t have a maturity date, in its equity. Now, it doesn’t have a cap.

You mean everyone in America doesn't have extra money laying around?? Get out of town!!! Geez, that wasn't meant to be a blanket statement. I specifically work with high net worth investors who DO have extra cash, so for THEM it is a good opportunity. But again, thanks for jumping down my throat, it was fun.

Well, leverage is NOT equity!! Leverage is borrowing money to magnify your returns. It is leverage that killed Lehman! Lehman borrowed too much money. They played a game of high-risk bets and borrowing money. Whereas on paper their profits grew but to keep profits growing they were taking on more and more risks. Anyone remember Enron?

For those who don't know what leverage is let's say you have $ 1,000 invested and it takes 20 % hit - you lose $ 200, you still have $ 800 equity.
With 2x leverage you borrow $ 2,000 and the same 20 % decline costs you $ 600. Sounds like an acceptable risk so far, you still have equity. But look at what happens to your equity after the loss. At 2 x leverage you end up with $ 2,000 of debt and $ 400 of equity (actual money on hand), therefore the resulting leverage is $ 2,000 ./. $ 400 = 5 x.

At only 5 x leverage (according to the above example $ 1,000 in equity and $ 5,000 borrowed) you have NO equity. That means your business cannot absorb another downturn/loss.

On the upside, let's say you make a 20 % gain instead of a loss, according to the above example you make a $ 1,000 gain (without borrowing the money you would have made $ 200 and lost no equity) but still have $ 2,000 in debt against it.

Lehman's leverage wasn't 5 it was 30 as you correctly stated. I wouldn't call that a short time funding crisis. Lehman was heavily invested in real estate holdings, anyone think Lehman's assets would have gone down even more over the next several months?

Now I understand that someone in your position, working with high net investors may think that this is a great opportunity to make money. But if you are someone like me who works with people who are just a heartbeat away from losing their jobs, their savings, their homes, their livelihood and their self-respect, things may look a little different. I am working with mid-level managers who lost their jobs in the last lay-off, I am working with middle class people who worked hard, paid their bills and were pretty well off until it all went to hell and a handbasket. This is where middle America is. They are not high net worth investors who think everything is hunky dorry and just a great opportunity to make more money.

I bet 90 % of people on this board are not high net worth investors, they are just struggeling to make ends meet and cancelling their $ 200 STS orders because it's not in their budget. You think it is wise for them to invest in securities and the stock market, even if they had a little bit of money. Rule number one, don't invest money in risky investments if you can't afford to lose it.

Kind of reminds me of how the housing bubble started.
 
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Carola, I don't think Nicole suggested that any of us invest right now. It was a general statement. You both agree actually ~ if you have money laying around, this may be an opportunity. That's all.

I wouldn't say investors with that extra cash think everything is "hunky dorry" either.

Is it me, or do you inject a lot of emotion into your posts? :)
 
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Hey Guys,

You know what really eat at me is the heads of these companies still get to walk away with their golden parachutes even though they have tank the companies. :mad: And we are talking they have million of dollar parachutes. :mad: Don't we all wish we could screw up our jobs and get huge bonus for it. And as tax payers we will be paying for that too!

Therese
 
Carola, I don't think Nicole suggested that any of us invest right now. It was a general statement.


I don't know maybe it is the lack of command of the English language for me but if someone says

This is actually a sensational buying opportunity because your dollar is going so much further than it would have a year ago.

does not sound like a "general" statement to me. Maybe I am overreacting but I have gone to seminars as the housing market was still booming and the CPA and Stanford graduate "instructor" was telling people that this was an extraordinary opportunity to do what millionaire investors do to make money.

Take money out of your home equity with an "Option ARM" loan (you pay either interest only, principal and interest or a "minimum" amount what you are falling short gets added on to the balance of your mortgage) and invest in rental property. When I raised the question what would happen if his 5 and 10 year outlooks wouldn't turn out as planned and the real estate prices stopped climbing or God forbid went down, I was told that I was just a "spoiler" and didn't have the "millionaire mindset".

He made a "general" statement that this is what "millionaire" investors do, they "leverage". Some people who were in this seminar are now people who I work with to either keep in their homes or work with their mortgage lenders and other creditors to prevent even more damage to their lives. And with many of the people I am working with, I do that on a non-profit basis, I don't make a cent of that. They don't HAVE any money!!!!

So I apologize that I get a little bit bent out of shape over those "general statements" because I see on a daily basis what general statements like these have done to people and their families.

And yes, Lori, I DO inject a lot of emotion in this post because there are days that I am coming home and I just want to hug my kids a little closer after seeing yet another American middle class family's life in shambles.
 
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Actually, from my stand point, while the markets are falling, and everything seems to be collapsing around us, as they say, it is always darkest before the dawn. This is actually a sensational buying opportunity because your dollar is going so much further than it would have a year ago.

This is why, even though I'm in my own personal fiscal quagmire, I'm not touching my retirement. I know the fund managers are on a massive buying spree (on my behalf) and I figure these bad times are going to be very good times in 20 years, with compound interest. I'm leaving it be.
 

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