Economic Crisis

You are

an insufferable person.

How dare you make a comment about knowing how much I do and do not volunteer? This shows how much of an ignoramus you really are. Would you really like to know how much I volunteer - how about my track record for the last 10 years - or better yet my contributions. I'll be more than glad to write it all out for you. However somehow I am sure you would find something to pick my charities apart if it isn't in your oh so small world that seems to surround you. You seem to think you have this misconception that you can run rough shod over any and all on these boards.

I would applaud you for your charitable work out there helping people but since you have to add a biting comment to everything you print I don't feel it necessary.

I was in the real estate industry - glad I got out of it. Lost my rear (and paid out of my pocket and blames no one) and realized what a back biting industry it is and that it needs some serious looking at. I think brokers are a joke - they don't do crap but sit back and take half.

My current job is no pay - taking care of a dying parent in their last days and hoping I can make them dignified and comfortable as possible - and far away from my own home and family. I really didn't want to mention that because I don't want any pity - but know that others and some on this board are suffering also in different ways! I'll get paid in a different way in a different place. Prayer has seen me through this very trying and difficult journey.
 
You know, I find it interesting that you only post on this forum to make rude comments and stirr up trouble. It'd be nice if you had something constructive to contribute.

I am sorry you are going through so much heartache with your parent.
 
And I find it

interesting that your relative idea of a constructive contribution are only those thoughts that fall in line with yours. Actually you posted a comment to me last week stating in general that I had no business posting here if I was only going to do it once in a while. Forgive me for not knowing the rule that says we must post a certain amount of times to be a legitimate poster - did I miss that one?

Funny - I have started a new thread a few times this week and no one called me a pig, troublemaker or uncaring. Except you.

And where did the PIG thing come from anyway?
 
No, not at all, there are several people who disagree with me and I disagree with their view, they are still my friends and I respect their view. I enjoy discussing issues, I learn from other people and I value their opinion. And yes, every once in a while I change my opinion based on what I hear from my friends here.

I didn't say that you had no business posting here, those are words you are putting in my mouth. I can't do anything about your assumptions. I said what I just said in this thread, I find it interesting that you mainly post to make rude comments and to stir up trouble. And now you mainly post to attack me. Have at it, my dear. If it makes you feel better.

I don't know, I never called you a pig, you have the monopoly in that department. Just as a refresher this was your introduction to the forum.

RE: Sicko
O.K. - I will be the partypooper. NOT trying to start a flamewar.

Michael Mooore (who is you look at him can tell he doesn't take the best care of himself) is one of the typical who goes by the mantra "Do as I say - not as I do"

Case in point - He owns a million dollar house on Torch Lake (rated one of the most beautiful lakes in the world in MI). The entire shoreline is protected. What does he do? Dredges out 100 ft of it up toward his house because he wanted a more beach look and feel. Totally screwed with the eco system of the shorline. Didn't tell anyone (Department of Natural Resources) he was doing it either. Pretty much thumbed his nose at them. NOW - imagine if one of us did that? He'd have his environmental finger in our faces.

I give no credit to anything that opportunistic pig says.

That being said - I think there are many problems with our healthcare system but he is NOT the expert to fix it. He rubs elbows with know commies and socialists. And I for one don't want to take another step toward socialism.

Baylian

You have yourself a great evening!
 
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Babylion- Carola is not insufferable -she is honest.

Prayer - the one thing Jesus went bonkers over was money exchange in the synagogue and he blew off the abused workers who lamented Caesar's outrageous taxation and said to focus on your soul...No, Jesus would scoff at our money problems when there are babies being abused, terrorists hacking at neighbors, genocide of peaceful tribes - the horrors of this world that always have been, are and always will be because of our inclination to evil.

By not regulating sufficiently, evil and corruption have robbed people with decades of service of pensions and health care - most recently, Delta Airlines...if AIG were to go under - the ripple effect could collapse the economy.

Carolla insufferable? Hardly - she is angry and outraged as we all deserve to be...We had an SEC and government that was either too corrupt or too incompetant to step in and STOP the tax law that removed regulations on profits (that did NOT trickle down, while CEOs and officers make tens of millions in annual perks - unHEARD of 20 years ago! Reagan is turning in his grave), and REGULATE the exchanges made on ILLEGAL insider information -enforcement of that is now a joke...I accuse the Republicans who have had control for 10 years and I accuse the Democrats for not screaming Foul as only a few had the courage to do....Christie Whitman - a conservative Republican was hooted down and ostracized by the Bush Administration for her focus on truth and WHAT IS not "the jury is out" and wanting to compromise and solve economic and environmental issues before the unthinkable occured - as it is now....

Our nation was founded on truth and compromise - and the idea of what is FAIR and just.....becoming wealthy is no crime...exploiting and ripping off the people who slave for you and robbing their pensions IS a crime.

Excellent thread ladies - we need all become more aware...and the more I read ....from objective economists, the more sinister the whole thing becomes.......
 
I understand now

the way you had written the original post it looked like you had called me an opportunistic pig but you were actually quoting me about Michael Moore. Which is exactly what he is. Bernie
Goldberg's book "100 People Who Are Screwing Up America" is a great read.

My apologies. Are you familiar with those?

This economic mess belongs to EVERYONE in D.C. An no one person is going to hall our arses out of it. Remember that Congress has sat on their thumbs for the last two years.

10% across the board for everyone and let the government budget with that. Budget - now there's a concept for the government and for a said few of the population.

And bring on line item veto power!
 
baylian said:
the way you had written the original post it looked like you had called me an opportunistic pig but you were actually quoting me about Michael Moore. Which is exactly what he is. Bernie
Goldberg's book "100 People Who Are Screwing Up America" is a great read.

My apologies. Are you familiar with those?

This economic mess belongs to EVERYONE in D.C. An no one person is going to hall our arses out of it. Remember that Congress has sat on their thumbs for the last two years.

10% across the board for everyone and let the government budget with that. Budget - now there's a concept for the government and for a said few of the population.

And bring on line item veto power!
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Uuuhm, the way I had written the original post sounded like I had called you an opportunistic pig????? I quote hiitdogs (me)

"I am always happy to be patronized by someone who barely ever posts other than making snide comments and who calls people she disagrees with opportunistic pigs."

Response Baylian: "WTH? Sorry, don't remember making any comment like that!! "

Now you try and twist things, and say you thought I called you a pig, hoping to be able to smear me??? Selective memory???

Yes, I have read 100 People Who are Screwing up America. McCarthynism anyone????

Congress has sat on their thumbs for the last two years? Yeah they have but how about the last 8 years of this president have gotten middle America into this mess? Two oil man in the white house, who has made money in the last few years, oil industry and Halliburton. How about a Republican Congress AND a Republican President? Where have they gotten us? Remember Truman? The buck stops here?

How about get our butts out of Iraq? There is a novel concept, stop spending billions of $$$ every month, for occupying a country that we had no place going in from the beginning. How about we occupy a sovereign country who wants us out, who has billions of $$$ in surplus, we keep paying in American lives lost and $$$ and Iraq just made a deal with China on oil, cutting us out. I sure remember our VP saying the oil will pay for everything, now that worked really well, did it now????? We have middle America on the brink of collapse. Bin Laden is still alive and well, and here I was, silly me, believing that our president was serious (quote Bush) find him alive or dead, or McCain who will follow him to the gates of hell. But hey, we are all Georgians today and we should be cracking down on Iran, let's see how we come up with that money after bailing out Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG and now possibly the automobile industry. And we have a possible VP whose foreign experience is that she sees Russia from the porch of her home. Comforting!!

Where I am standing this is the first time in history that taxes have been cut while we are at war. But let's cut some more taxes. Borrow and spend? As far as I recall that was part of the problem. Not looking good right now, let's not only get China to send us contaminated pet food and toys, let's embrace China owning half of our country. We sure have good standing to go back and say hey, what about your human rights. Let's just slap the hand that feeds us.

You want talk to me about patriotism, Baylian? You call the country that I am from, Germany, a "third world country" and you want to tell me that I am rubbing elbows with socialists and commies? I have my German and Swedish citizenship relinquieshed to become a citizen of this country. What I have learned from the countries that I was born at and grew up at, is that it IS patriotic to question your government, it is patriotic to stand up and say ENOUGH!!!!! Blind patriotism led Germany to the third reich, I am not saying that is where America is at but I am saying question your government. Patriotism is not necessarily to wear a flag as a lapel pin, patriotism is not to blindly agree with everything my government does. Patriotism is to put your country and it's people first.

And going back to your question about Biden's comment, how do you think we will be paying for all that mess???? Borrow more money from China???

So you go ahead with your attacks, if that makes you happy. In the meantime, I will be trying to do MY small part in relieving what this administration has brought to Middle America.
 
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You are

one angry person . . .

and this may be a dumb question but why did you relinquish citizenship SWE and GDR?

My nephews hold dual citizenship with JPN.

And don't give me an epistle lesson - just an honest, short answer will do.
 
I guess, angry left is what your party calls the people who dare to ask questions of their government and who want a better life for ALL Americans.


"Just an honest short answer will do?" Excuse me? Not that I have any obligation to explain my decisions to you, Baylian but take a look at the oath people take when they become American citizens:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiances and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereign, to whom I or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic....

I guess I am one of those silly people who takes an oath and a commitment seriously.

And just FYI, GDR is the German Democratic Republic, a socialist/communist country, which seized to exist in 1989 when the wall came down and East and West Germany were united into the Federal Republic of Germany. Maybe that's where your confusion comes from that Germany is a third-world socialist country.
 
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hiitdogs said:
I'll explain it just for you, Baylian. I am in real estate and I volunteer to help people who are on the brink of losing their homes or are going through rough times financially. I realize that may be an unfamiliar concept for you, to volunteer time to help people.

Hammer crap down your throat? Taken a look at yourself lately? I am not the one calling people opportunistic pigs.

The prayer comment was a joke, just as I thought Mackenzie joked. If you didn't joke Mackenzie, and I offended you I apologize.
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I never joke about prayer. Our country is a mess and I don't believe any one person or any one administration can fix it. God CAN heal our nation. We just need to do our part. I do not mean to be offensive to anyone.
 
mackenzie said:
I never joke about prayer. Our country is a mess and I don't believe any one person or any one administration can fix it. God CAN heal our nation. We just need to do our part. I do not mean to be offensive to anyone.
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But, that's the same thing our enemy thinks. Maybe God will answer THEIR prayers instead of ours.

tete


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." T. Roosevelt
 
Ladies, nothing better than a guid fight to make me smile.
As to God.
G go
O out and
D do it.
Looking forward to hearing the results of your endeavours!
 
hiitdogs said:
Not sure praying is going to do the trick. After all our current president prays daily and on major decisions. I am not sure that got us anywhere good :)

SirenSongWoman, I think you have gotten pretty good advice. Just a few thoughts I wanted to add.

I am assuming that you are contemplating to file for bankruptcy based on your credit card debt. Keep in mind, congress passed an amendment to the bankruptcy law in 2005 which allows the credit card company to challenge the discharge of debt in certain circumstances. The liklihood of your credit card company to file an adversary proceeding increases if any of the following applies:

  • Increase in credit card usage shortly before filing
  • Newly issued card
  • Large cash advances in months before filing
  • Use of the card for recent travel or vacations
  • Pattern of borrowing on one card to make payments on others
  • Exceeding credit limit
  • Using card when unemployed or without reasonable belief that the debt can be repaid
  • Large balance at filing
  • Charges were made after consulting a bankruptcy lawyer
There are drawbacks on borrowing out of your retirement account and I understand what the experts are saying that you are taking out money that could earn you significant interest over the years. That being said, I think there are circumstances where it is a good choice, if the numbers make sense.

If you are paying 29 % in interest on your cards and the interest for the loan out of your retirement account is significantly lower (I think we paid 8 % on the loan out of DH's 401k) it may be worth it. There is a calculator on smartmoney.com that may help you http://www.smartmoney.com/debt/calculator/index.cfm?story=borrow401k

The other thing to keep in mind, if you are filing for bankruptcy, it will effect your credit score and your ability to get a loan or mortgage in the future. Even if you will be able to get a loan after a couple of years you will be charged a higher interest rate. I would factor this into your decision of borrowing funds from your retirement fund.

I would however consider your work situation, is there any chance that you will lose your job or want to leave your job anytime soon? My DH took a loan out of his 401k and 3 months later he was laid off :mad: If you leave the company for whatever reason the money that you borrowed becomes due within 30 days. If you can't pay the money back, it is considered an advance/early withdrawl and usually carries a penalty (ours was 10 %) and you have to pay income tax on it and it is money that you no longer have in your retirement fund.

If you ask my personal opinion, if I were you I would avoid bankruptcy. However, this is only based on what you have shared here, there may be other circumstances that I am not aware of.

Hope this helps! Good luck!
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I really appreciate your informed advice, Carola. Regarding Bankruptcy and credit card companies making challenges, none of the points apply, in my case. I'm not a big credit card user, as a rule (sounds strange, I know), never take out cash advances, never use one card to pay on another... Kind of makes me wonder how I even got there... I'm a Regular (guaranteed 40 hours and protected) employee at a postal processing facility that is very busy and getting busier so I don't think my job is at stake. I own my home and don't have any interest in moving, my Camry is only a year old (Remember, I had a car accident. My old car was totaled). If a bankruptcy makes my credit look bad for a few years it's not like I'm going anywhere or planning any big purchases... I'm just terrified about touching my retirement. Everyone at work is talking about how bad our retirement accounts (Postal thrift savings is kind of like a 401k but not quite. With your experience I'm sure you already know) are getting hit but I'm thinking our fund managers are probably buying stock like mad and, when the economic crisis has stabilized, I'm thinking it could result in considerable cash. It's one of the reasons I don't want to touch it. Lot's of people dip into their Thrift Savings but not for debt like this... So I meet with the attorney on Tuesday and I'll discuss all this with him. Does this help you to advise me?
 
I just read over the messages here and have something to say. I am so very grateful for all the advice and support I'm getting from the ladies (men) here and the expertise has helped me understand a lot of what's going on in my own life and with our nation's economic crisis. I totally get how stressful it is to see economic tragedy hit so many people day after day so, Carola, you are da bomb, in my book - as are the other ladies (and men) here who've offered so much for me to think about. But I was shocked to check in this morning and see sarcastic attacks on Carola. To that individual: Please stop it. We all play nice together and always have. Mean-spirited jabs eventually result in all of us pretending the offender doesn't exist. Dig?
 
I have to echo that sentiment--Carola & I often don't see eye to eye but I respect her opinion & while it might be offered strongly at times (;)) I don't think it's ever given uncivilly. Which is generally the case for most everyone here. I'm shocked at the insults & nastiness being hurled by a single poster--very inappropriate & I wish s/he'd take it to another forum. I'd offer suggestions but I hesitate to offend the more rational/moderate of my political opponents. :p
 
I too just want to say, Carola, you go girl. I only wish I could express myself as clearly as you and remain so rational even when responding to mean spirited attacks. I too refrain from chiming in on these touchy subjects 'cause like Lauramax my views are probably a little too extreme. Like her I also am a huge Bill Maher fan. Wouldn't want to marry him but I love his show and share many of his views. Especially as far as religion is concerned.
I'm extremely impressed that you love this country so much as to relinquish E.U. citizenship. I am a dual national and would hate to have to give up my Italian citizenship. I still dream of taking DH back there to live some day.
 
One of the things I respect about Cathe is that although there were some bizarre nasty comments against Carolla, she shouldered them rationally, and this discussion, including Siren's brave venture that many of us have faced or will, has been enlightening and invigorating! THIS is America, where we are all allowed - so far - to debate, suggest, and compromise to solutions for horrible problems of a huge diverse population. And the Democrats have not had enough majority for overrides to change policy...but I wish I had heard more outrage from them!

No, this thread should NOT be closed...we are not children, and I feel like I have a big net of friends from this thread.

Siren - keep us posted, it helps us too.....

Carolla - God Bless you.

Michelle
 
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