We're the Problem!?!?!

I'm going to stay out of this debate for a change - anyone who's ever read anything I've posted on politics knows that I almost never think the answer to the "what will help?" question is "more government involvement" and that I think both parties are corrupt and repulsive but I did want to ask if anyone has noticed a subtle backlash against fitness and health in general? It seems like the trend these days is to talk up (dubious) studies that show exercise doesn't really make a difference/obesity isn't really a health problem etc.

I have noticed this! There seem to be a lot more studies out there that state exercise isn't necessary. There are studies saying just diet alone promotes weight loss, the "afterburn" of exercise is nil, etc. I am waiting for the next study to show that exercise doesn't lower a persons risk of developing heart disease, diabetes, etc. I am sure it is out there somewhere!

Carrie
 
We already pay for a lot of people who make poor health choices. We pay for them in several ways. 1 - Medicaid. MANY people on Medicaid should not be. I can say this from personal experience since half of my family CHOOSE to not work and have found "doctors" to sign off on their need to be on SSD, SSI, and Medicaid. 2 - the uninsured. Most uninsured individuals still receive healthcare. However, instead of going to a primary care physician, they show up at their local emergency room because the emergency room HAS to treat them...even if the patient can't pay. Hospitals are much more expensive than a physicians office. How do the hospitals recoup their losses? By charging higher costs across the board. Why pays for that? The insured do!

I would much rather have a standard health care system that is fair for EVERYONE.

Carrie

I know, I have another family member that hasn't worked in 30 years when he could have. He is a bit "slow", but got Medicaid supposedly because of a bad knee...but the reason he has the bad knee is because he wouldn't go to physical therapy after his operation, and now he has scar tissue. He has diabetes, blood sugar that runs about 300 :confused: gout, high blood pressure, watches TV all day, and his only exercise is walking to the donut shop. He could work if he wanted to, he just doesn't want to.
 
he used to play football

Are we supposed to believe that a sports nut and a football fan didn't twist an ankle? And considering how much insurance I pay per month, I should be able to cover every single visit to the doctor each year. (its over 500$ a month.)
 
I am willing to bet that many people that say they "can't afford" medical insurance have things that are considered luxuries in any other part of the world, like cable TV (maybe even several TVs), computers, cell phones, etc. Are they willing to give that up for health insurance? I know that between TV, cell phone, cable, a movie, and a dinner or two out, that would easily be $400 and would pay for a health insurance plan. I would drop all that in a New York minute to insure my health, but many people choose to keep it and gamble.

Yeah that's great! So maybe you can tell me what I can cut out to come up with $ 1,100 a month in health insurance because that's how much I will be paying with a pre-existing condition, if I even get coverage. But I can always cut out my cell phone that I need for work, or how about the food on the table for my kids.

I mean no disrespect but sometimes it seems hard for people who get / have great health insurance (like the one provided for govenment employees, senators, congressmen, etc.) to understand what it really is like out there for the rest of us. It's not that people don't want health insurance, they just can't get it!

I am not thrilled about anything government run but the private health care keeps screwing people over for their profits. In my opinion health care is a basic right and health care and profits are just a presciption for disaster!
 
That's what I love about Ontario- our healthcare system has problems, but coverage for basic healthcare is available to all Ontarians, and we all share the cost through our taxes. It doesn't have a lot of frills, and there is sometimes waiting, but it really beats the alternative.
 
Govtgirl - if you've getting health insurance through your employer, you're already "paying for other people." ALL health insurance (all insurance for that matter) works on the principle of everyone contributing to help everyone. If you and I contribute to the same plan at work, and I never get sick but you do, I'm paying for you. The idea is that everyone contributing increases the pool of money, and in theory, aids in driving down costs by "buying in bulk," so to speak. It's already "socialized;" right now it's just done for profit.
Here's an exercise for you - go to the poor part of town, if you dare. Find a few families with kids, maybe some sick kids. Now - pick out which kid gets to die today because you won't part with $10 to take part in the evil socialized health care program (cue Il Fortuna music now). As the saying goes, "there but for the grace of God, go I!"
 
I wish that was me

Wow, this kind of crap really blows my mind. As Idy_Solana said, I have been way less sick since I've been eating clean and working out like I do. I can't remember the last time I was at the doctors.

What an ass! :mad:

I"m eating clean most of the time but I"m still sick ugh :(

ok, I know, stop the whining. :D
 
Do you really think the majority of Americans has a problem with overexercising and that effects our health care system more than the horrible eating habits of the average American? I would say the people on this board are the minority in America.

I am just curious, what do you consider socialized medicine? And what would be the drawback of people having access to preventive health care instead of costing the tax payer money by going to the ER when the crap has already hit the fan?

We are the only industrialized nation that does not offer health care for their citizens. And despite of the enourmous amount of money that we currently spend on our disease care system our citizens are not healthier, on the contrary!

There is something really wrong with the notion that only the ones that are in good health are being accepted by private health care and the others, oh well, too bad, so sad. I had health care, then I was diagnosed with cancer, now I am going through a divorce. I am self employed and will be no longer covered under my husband's insurance. Do you think I will be able to get health care now with a pre-existing condition? I don't think so! Personlly, I think there is something really wrong about for profit health care systems. It's the same as for profit fire departments or for profit police would be.

I would take Rush Limbaugh a lot more serious if he weren't spewing so much venom.

Well put, Hiitdogs, and I am sorry to hear your troubles - your health worries, compounded with the lack of insurance coverage worries, I can't even imagine what you are going through.

Having lived in Canada for most of my life, (I now live in the states for the time being), I have been able to be a part of both programs (as I am sure a lot of people have). I get so tired of listening to politicians, news journalists, ect, bash socialized medicine because a lot of what they are saying is not the whole truth. Yes there are waiting lists for some procedures in Canada, there is in the states too, such as organ transpant lists for one. Some have to go to Europe to get the care they want - if they have the money to do so. When I was 20 and making less than $10,000 a year, my premium I paid every 6 months was $9, so $18 a year - I went to any doctor or specialist I wanted, I don't remember if I had to pay co-pays or not, but I know there were no deductibles. Socialized medicine is about preventative care, and it is something that would benefit ALL citizens, we are already paying taxes for Medicaid to help the few who have not fallen through the cracks because the "make too much money," what is wrong with ensuring that everyone has equal access? Why should the wealthy, or those lucky enough to work somewhere with decent benefits be the only ones to benefit from health care?

And I'm sorry, even if those who "over-exercise" and happen to get injured (btw, it is not only "over-exercisers" who get injured) a broken bone, pulled muscles, they all heal relatively quickly with proper care - and then are gone (though there are some injuries that do require long-term care, of course). Diseases like Diabetes, heart conditions, ect always require long-term care and cost much more - though I don't mean to imply anything by highlighting those diseases, I am only trying to make a point based on what Rush said about exercisers being the cause for the drain the health system and costing so much money. And tongue-in-cheek or not, it is not about agreeing or disagreeing with what he said, it is the fact that his statements are not based on anything factual - they are his opinions, and he is entitled to them just like Howard Stern.
 
You know, the VA (Veteran's Administration) is the closest comparison we have to socialized healthcare in the US. It is....HORRIBLE! Certain veterans are supposed to get free healthcare for serving in the military, but do they? Um, yeah, maybe after 6 months of filing papers, and waiting in a smelly room with peeling paint.

I am going through VA paperwork HELL right now with my mother, a Korean-war vet that is entitled to a VA pension to pay for assisted living. SIX MONTHS ago is when all this paperwork started, and I took off work today so I could fill out more, and get this: write a letter to them explaining why an 84 year old woman can't travel 2 hours to a VA hospital to get one of their exams, and oh wait a minute, I already submitted a doctor's statement to her many health issues. But some government worker that doesn't give a damn ignored it because it was probably time for a coffee break, and now I have to go through this.

The only thing the goverment does well besides training and running the military is take your money, and then waste it.

The exact words of my disabled veteran brother "If you want to see what socialized medicine is going to be like - look no further than the VA" It's a total cluster****.

And I am sure I will piss some people off but I am so damn tired of seeing fat, pigish people at the stores with carts loaded up with trash food, baby in arms, one in the oven, parked in handicapped, cigarette smoking with muffin tops to no end (grossgrossgross) and then they pay with food stamps ~ I could just spit . . . enough already. I think there is a small revolution starting - I have lib friends that are even tired of it.

In regards to Rush - I'm a conservative and I get tired of him easily. I think this was tongue in cheek. Take the time to listen to him for his entire show and you hear a lot of that.

Mark Levin is the best!
 
It's b/c the private industry, which is based on profit & not what's best for the patient, has screwed it up so royally. If you want to talk about bureacracy, I work for govmt too & frankly I have a much more difficult time figuring out my health insurance than I do my property taxes. If you think a bunch of bureacrats aren't making decisions about your health care NOW, you're kind of out of the loop.

Man, is THAT ever the truth! Managed healthcare NOW is making a lot of wealthy business people wealthier, at the expense of many who have it but aren't getting what they need. I remember when I used to have 30 health plans from which to choose. Now we have 5 or 6 because the costs have risen so dramatically. Whenever open season rolls around we all start talking and comparing notes. The married with children all go with These Two Plans, the single non-parents all choose This One, The people with Chronic Conditions (or kids with chronic conditions) go with That One...

I pay extra for vision and dental (and the dental ain't that great) and I have pre-tax dollars pulled from my check to take care of expected bigger expenses. What I'm saying is that every year we carry a larger share of the burden of our present healthcare costs and it's only going to get a lot worse for those who have coverage. If something isn't done soon it won't be long before we'll all be screaming for intervention. The poorest among us stopped screaming long ago because nobody was listening. Living in a poor neighborhood (renovating an old house) I can tell you you're already paying for all those who aren't covered. You pay through Welfare, sure, but you're mostly paying through the higher all-around costs of healthcare when the costs are passed on to us. I look at fixing healthcare as putting all the cards on the table so we know exactly where the money's going and for what.

You know, anyone can get cancer or multiple sclerosis. If it happened to you and you had no coverage (or found out the hard way that your insurer refuses to pay up... under-coverage is becoming the bigger issue now) what would you do? Every day, more and more people live in fear of how they're going to survive when catastrophic illness strikes. How is this STILL happening in THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA? There's something really wrong with this "I have what I need and if you don't, screw you" attitude. I feel America has damned itself to Hell through our shameless selfishness and utter lack of concern for the suffering of our neighbors. It's a horrible thing to see what this nation is really about now.
 
And I'm sorry, even if those who "over-exercise" and happen to get injured (btw, it is not only "over-exercisers" who get injured) a broken bone, pulled muscles, they all heal relatively quickly with proper care - and then are gone (though there are some injuries that do require long-term care, of course). Diseases like Diabetes, heart conditions, ect always require long-term care and cost much more - though I don't mean to imply anything by highlighting those diseases, I am only trying to make a point based on what Rush said about exercisers being the cause for the drain the health system and costing so much money. And tongue-in-cheek or not, it is not about agreeing or disagreeing with what he said, it is the fact that his statements are not based on anything factual - they are his opinions, and he is entitled to them just like Howard Stern.

Good point Kirsten! I would bet that the majority of those who get "exercise related injuries" are not regular exercisers. They are probably those who are out of shape but jump back into an exercise program full steam and injure themselves. My former physical therapist said the most common shoulder PT he does is for middle-age men who jump back into a fitness program thinking they can do just as many/same style push-ups they did in their teens!

My concern with Rush making these kind of blanket statements is that, like Oprah, there is a segment of the population who takes what he says as "gospel." They will see it as Rush doesn't endorse exercising so I had better not exercise! I can hear my Dad now (huge Limbaugh fan)!!!

Carrie
 
The exact words of my disabled veteran brother "If you want to see what socialized medicine is going to be like - look no further than the VA" It's a total cluster****.

And I am sure I will piss some people off but I am so damn tired of seeing fat, pigish people at the stores with carts loaded up with trash food, baby in arms, one in the oven, parked in handicapped, cigarette smoking with muffin tops to no end (grossgrossgross) and then they pay with food stamps ~ I could just spit . . . enough already. I think there is a small revolution starting - I have lib friends that are even tired of it.

In regards to Rush - I'm a conservative and I get tired of him easily. I think this was tongue in cheek. Take the time to listen to him for his entire show and you hear a lot of that.

Mark Levin is the best!

"Trash food" costs about 1/3 of what healthier food costs. The price difference between lean meats and processed junk alone is unbelievable. When you're poor, trash is all you can afford.

All this judging of Those People, while sitting in a nice room in a nice house, removed from the truly tragic reality. I just keep thinking 'Marie Antoinette.'
 
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I happen to like Rush...

I know we have some right-leaning Catheites on the forum (I'm a little to the right ;) ) , and I imagine either some listen to Rush or have loved ones who do. (Now that I think of it, my FIL listens to him too.)

I should have stated this at the end of my first post, but dopey me...I didn't think of it until later. I don't mean to imply that those who listen to Rush are crazy, or that they aren't smart or compassionate. Forgive me if it sounded that way.

I take issue with some of the goofy stuff he has said in the past, not with his listeners. :)

...and I voted for McCain. So there, I've outed myself, if I hadn't already. I DON'T like Sean Hannity, however. And I love Bill O'Reilly. I really don't care if anyone thinks I'm crazy!
 
You know, anyone can get cancer or multiple sclerosis. If it happened to you and you had no coverage (or found out the hard way that your insurer refuses to pay up... under-coverage is becoming the bigger issue now) what would you do? Every day, more and more people live in fear of how they're going to survive when catastrophic illness strikes. How is this STILL happening in THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA? There's something really wrong with this "I have what I need and if you don't, screw you" attitude. I feel America has damned itself to Hell through our shameless selfishness and utter lack of concern for the suffering of our neighbors. It's a horrible thing to see what this nation is really about now.

AMEN SISTER!! i have health insurance through my job and let me tell you...for the premiums/copays i have to shell out, how come my insurance provider REFUSED to cover my biopsy when my doc thought i had cervical cancer?! i wound up having to pay for the procedure out-of-pocket after fighting the issue for over a year. meanwhile, i come to find out that a co-worker who is under the same exact health plan was okayed for her lap-band surgery!!! seriously, WTF?! its not like she was dangerously overweight (by which i mean so heavy and sick that she couldn't drive, work, whatever). but here i am, doing the best i can to stay healthy: im young, i exercise 5-6 days a week (not over-doing it nor taxing my body negatively, btw), i eat relatively healthy, i hardly ever get sick. yet here i am, breaking the bank for a procedure i NEED. meanwhile, this woman gets her lap band and 2 months later she is pigging out on all the crap she can get her hands on. and MY money went to pay for her BS surgery as well as the one i REQUIRED!!

sorry, it just infuriates me how skewed and messed up the American health care system is....
 
Living in a poor neighborhood (renovating an old house) I can tell you you're already paying for all those who aren't covered. You pay through Welfare, sure, but you're mostly paying through the higher all-around costs of healthcare when the costs are passed on to us.
And if all people received basic care, we'd be paying more for preventive treatment and care for illness in its earlier stages. This could avoid having to pay for more expensive care for someone who didn't get the preventive care they should have because they couldn't afford it and now has a much more serious, and expensive, health care issue to deal with.
 
"Trash food" costs about 1/5 of what good food costs. When you're poor, trash is all you can afford. You should live among poor people. It will open your eyes.
Really? Right now in my grocery store a bag of apples (or grapes, bunch of bananas, broccoli, romaine, carrots) costs about the same as a bag of chips and less than a carton of ice cream. Oatmeal is about the same as sugar cereal, maybe a little more. Pop is way more expensive than water. I spend way less than most of my friends do, and I usually spend less than the person who was in line in front of me who filled the conveyer belt with "crap". My food lasts longer, too. Most people will eat only one apple, and at the same time most people will down half a bag of chips in one sitting. I have lived "poor", was raised poor with a widowed mom and thankfully she made better decisions than others do - I am not saying that I don't have compassion on those who are obese and poor and eating crap, but it is very feasible to be poor & on food stamps and still eat healthy.

I will tell you what really gets me mad though, that our government's WIC offices help (whatever!) women with: They allow for certain foods to be approved as healthy for nursing/pregnant moms and children. Among these foods are: highly processed cheese, hydrogenated peanut butter, canned tuna, juices (juicy juice, not orange juice) - and that counts as a fruit, the only veggie on the list is carrots, and they allow certain cereals - most of which have sugar as one of the main ingredients. No fresh fruits, no fresh veggies, no fresh ingredients anywhere. I hated being on WIC and ended up not using most of the certificates because the food was crap; I didn't want to eat it and I didn't want to give it to my DD. If the government is wanting a hand in health care it has to change the way it looks at food and what is considered healthy. As it stands now they certainly don't have my confidence.

Missy
 
...and I voted for McCain. So there, I've outed myself, if I hadn't already. I DON'T like Sean Hannity, however. And I love Bill O'Reilly. I really don't care if anyone thinks I'm crazy!
My mom watches him faithfully. I listen to O'Reilly sometimes too. :) The whole drama with his assistant was a kick in the pants, but it doesn't totally negate all of his work.

Do you watch Glenn Beck? His style is a little nutty :D , but again...he has something to offer.

Hannity is freakin' relentless! I thought for sure Obama would have had him rubbed out by now. :p
 
Haha - Glenn Beck isn't even a good actor (I can fake cry better than he can - ugh!) And, he's publicly stated he DOES NOT CHECK FACTS before he rants about subjects.
 

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