We're the Problem!?!?!

Yep - I watch Glenn Beck

My mom watches him faithfully. I listen to O'Reilly sometimes too. :) The whole drama with his assistant was a kick in the pants, but it doesn't totally negate all of his work.

Do you watch Glenn Beck? His style is a little nutty :D , but again...he has something to offer.

Hannity is freakin' relentless! I thought for sure Obama would have had him rubbed out by now. :p

I don't listen to him on the radio, however. I like him a lot better than Hannity who is a broken record. I stopped watching him when Alan Colmes left the show. So there - I like a liberal - Colmes! Oh, yeah, Bob Beckel, too.
 
I have noticed this! There seem to be a lot more studies out there that state exercise isn't necessary. There are studies saying just diet alone promotes weight loss, the "afterburn" of exercise is nil, etc. I am waiting for the next study to show that exercise doesn't lower a persons risk of developing heart disease, diabetes, etc. I am sure it is out there somewhere!

Carrie

I haven't seen those studies, but I have seen more of them saying diet is MORE important then exercise when it comes to losing weight, which I have to agree. If I workout for an hour, burn 600 calories and then eat an extra 800 calories I'm not going to lose weight.

You can negate excercise with a bad diet when it comes to weight loss and I think studies/media are promoting this because too many people think they can walk around the block and then eat a pint of ice cream. :(

However it would be nice to make sure the benefits of exercise are still brought to the forefront.
 
And if all people received basic care, we'd be paying more for preventive treatment and care for illness in its earlier stages. This could avoid having to pay for more expensive care for someone who didn't get the preventive care they should have because they couldn't afford it and now has a much more serious, and expensive, health care issue to deal with.

Exactly!! :)
 
"Trash food" costs about 1/3 of what healthier food costs. The price difference between lean meats and processed junk alone is unbelievable. When you're poor, trash is all you can afford.

All this judging of Those People, while sitting in a nice room in a nice house, removed from the truly tragic reality. I just keep thinking 'Marie Antoinette.'

I don't judge them from my living room (which is average at best) but from behind their huge arses in line like everyone else. The REALITY is this - eat right, get off your duff and be accountable.

Umpteem 2 liters of pop - not a necessity.
Bags of chips and s**t - not a necessity.
Chocolate milk - not a necessity.
Lunchables - not a necessity.
Hot Dogs - just plain gross and NOT a necessity.

What else do I see - long painted acrylic nails and pedicures, fancy phones, more kids than one can handle economically or emotionally, no wedding ring or even a sign of a significant other (male or female).

I could go on and on . . this is what I see.

Buy a friggin bag of apples and eat one a day for cryin out loud and drink WATER! And practice birth control.

Beyond all of this - I am all for preventive health care. I think most of us on this forum are well educated and practice it to the best of our ability. A doctor can only do so much. If the person has no interest in taking care of ones self - then why should we have to pay for it to begin with. There is a certain percentage of people that don't give a crap and just expect everyone else to pick up the tab for them. The sad part is that those that truly need and want it are lumped in with them - those that most people have posted about on this thread. Those are the the ones that need our help. But I don't want to help those that don't want to help themselves - and I'm really on the fence with the illegals.

The Schnitt Show - love it.

Yeah - I'm sure I will get flamed but hopefully in a nice way - right Laura!! It's a joke people - we have come to an understanding for which I am glad.
 
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Maybe we should send the following article to Rush - though he probably wouldn't read it.

http://www.ideafit.com/fitness-libr...nt-health-benefits-physical-activity-exercise

It has been said a few times in this thread that one does not need exercise to lose weight, that it is simply a matter of having a daily calorie deficit. Which of course is very true, but I ask this, how healthy are you really if you only rely on diet to lose weight? Diet alone does not increase muscle endurance, stamina, strength, lung capacity - you get the idea :)

Kirsten
 
I don't judge them from my living room (which is average at best) but from behind their huge arses in line like everyone else. The REALITY is this - eat right, get off your duff and be accountable.

Umpteem 2 liters of pop - not a necessity.
Bags of chips and s**t - not a necessity.
Chocolate milk - not a necessity.
Lunchables - not a necessity.
Hot Dogs - just plain gross and NOT a necessity.

What else do I see - long painted acrylic nails and pedicures, fancy phones, more kids than one can handle economically or emotionally, no wedding ring or even a sign of a significant other (male or female).

I could go on and on . . this is what I see.

Buy a friggin bag of apples and eat one a day for cryin out loud and drink WATER! And practice birth control.

Beyond all of this - I am all for preventive health care. I think most of us on this forum are well educated and practice it to the best of our ability. A doctor can only do so much. If the person has no interest in taking care of ones self - then why should we have to pay for it to begin with. There is a certain percentage of people that don't give a crap and just expect everyone else to pick up the tab for them. The sad part is that those that truly need and want it are lumped in with them - those that most people have posted about on this thread. Those are the the ones that need our help. But I don't want to help those that don't want to help themselves - and I'm really on the fence with the illegals.

The Schnitt Show - love it.

Yeah - I'm sure I will get flamed but hopefully in a nice way - right Laura!! It's a joke people - we have come to an understanding for which I am glad.
I didn't mean to take off on anyone here about being judgmental but I can see it kind of looks that way. Sorry about that. I was thinking more about That Bunch of Angry White Men at work who sit in front of the tv ripping on everything and getting on my last nerve. Sorry B. That wasn't for you.

But about grocery shopping, healthy carbs have a place in a good diet but one cannot LIVE on them, even when we're talking about produce, beans, and oatmeal. People need complete, lean protein which means mostly meat and lean meats are very expensive, next to hot dogs, which are not. The better it is for you, the more expensive it is. Heck, even boneless/skinless chicken breasts have gotten ridiculous.

As for processed bagged crap, like chips, I swear I wasn't even aware you could buy that stuff with government aid. Whenever I've been behind someone with food stamps in the check-out line they're usually buying a lot of cheap meat (i.e. round steak, smoked sausage). But if they are allowed to pay for crap with aid it's probably because you can buy a lot more crap with $5.00 than you can sirloin steak.

Have you ever made a dietary change and done the whole cleaning-out-your-cupboards thing? You stand around going "Okay, but once the junk is gone what will I eat?" At my house it's tough and it's just me. I'm always at a loss as to what to eat - and I tank up on vegetables because they're loaded with good stuff and I at least know they're safe. I can't imagine trying to feed a family on so little. Also, most of the poor people around me don't own cars. They have to rely on someone else to take them to the store or they do their shopping at the local convenience mart. Have you seen THEIR prices? Is it any wonder they never climb out?

BTW, I have zero sympathy for multi-generational career welfare families. You know the type. Never had a job, parents never had a job and neither will the children. The people who lived off the taxpayers a decade before the economy tanked. I just worry that everyone in trouble is being lumped in with those deadbeats. And what about the kids? They didn't choose to be born to lazy freeloaders and I worry they're being punished for something over which they have no control. And you can ask anyone, I don't even particularly LIKE kids:p!
 
Govtgirl - if you've getting health insurance through your employer, you're already "paying for other people."

Yes, I know, and it's not cheap either. I do have to pay premiums, but at least it is within the pool of the other employees, yes even the ones that smoke, drink and weigh 400 pounds and never exercise. I just don't think I should have to pay for even MORE people over and above that.

Here's an exercise for you - go to the poor part of town, if you dare. Find a few families with kids, maybe some sick kids. Now - pick out which kid gets to die today because you won't part with $10 to take part in the evil socialized health care program (cue Il Fortuna music now). As the saying goes, "there but for the grace of God, go I!"

Oh, please, spare me the drama and holier-than-thou-attitude. By your reasoning, why don't you give up the computer that you are typing on, along with the service you'd pay for monthly, and go give that $1000 to a poor person with a sick kid?? What, you mean your computer is worth more to you than keeping a kid from dying??
 
I know that in some of the poorer neighborhoods of NYC there are no stores to buy fresh produce. There are no supermarkets. You are stuck with the little neighborhood stores that sell convenience items. I remember when the mayor of NY tried to give supermarkets incentives to open stores in poorer neighborhoods. I don't understand why other Western nations manage to provide universal health care to their citizens but we can't. I don't believe that health care should be a profit driven industry as it is here. You don't want the govt. between you and your doctor. Well I don't want some corporate executive with his eye on the bottom line between me and my doctor either. Opponents of govt health care policies throw around the words "socialized medicine" to scare people but we have "socialized" police and fire departments. Imagine if those services were profit driven. Sorry can't help you even tho your house is on fire. Been robbed too bad you aren't covered under your existing policy. Ridiculous.
 
Ok, maybe you'll get free healthcare, but you'll be too dead to enjoy it:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/catosletter/catosletterv3n1.pdf

An excerpt: Among women diagnosed with breast cancer,only one fifth die in the United States, compared to one third inFrance and Germany, and almost half in the United Kingdom and New Zealand.

Among men who are diagnosed with prostate cancer, fewer than one fifth die in the United States, compared to one fourth in Canada, almost half in France, and more than half in the United Kingdom.​
 
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Ok, maybe you'll get free healthcare, but you'll be too dead to enjoy it:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/catosletter/catosletterv3n1.pdf

An excerpt: Among women diagnosed with breast cancer,only one fifth die in the United States, compared to one third inFrance and Germany, and almost half in the United Kingdom and New Zealand.


Among men who are diagnosed with prostate cancer, fewer than one fifth die in the United States, compared to one fourth in Canada, almost half in France, and more than half in the United Kingdom.


According to SEER which are the statistics by the National Cancer Institute the mortality rate for breast cancer is 24.5 % which in my book is 1/4 and not 1/5 http://seer.cancer.gov/statfacts/html/breast.html

The mortality rates in Europe on average is 21.3 % with Russia being the lowest at 17.1 %.

http://www.encr.com.fr/breast-factsheets.pdf

Only 1 in 12 women in Europe develops breast cancer whereas it is 1 in 8 in the US.

In 2007 France had 62,245 new cases of prostate cancer and 9,202 deaths, hardly 50 %. During the same time the prostate cancer death rate in Canada was 27 %, in the UK 23 % and the US in 2007 219,000 cases and 27,000 deaths.

As already stated before, there are lies, there are damn lies and there are statistics. The way those numbers are run in the US is complete hogwash. Those people who die during treatment are not taken into consideration with those numbers, neither are the ones who develop secondary cancers during treatment and die from that, or the ones who survive 5 years because according to our scewed system here, if you still breathe after 5 years you are cured, even if you die of the disease 5 years and 1 day after the diagnosis.

Wasn't it John Goodman who was Sen. McCain's advisor who said that there is no health care problem in the US because everyone can get health care, they just need to go to the emergency room. This is such a bunch of nonsense that I don't even know where to start.

People who don't have medical insurance don't get the same treatment that the ones with insurance get. The uninsured are have to pay “up front” -- before services will be rendered. When they are unable to pay the full medical bill in cash at the time of service, they can be turned away except in life-threatening circumstances. The hospital is only required to do triage and stabilize, nothing more!

The cost of keeping people uninsured by far outweighs the cost of providing universal health care.

The United States spends nearly $100 billion per year to provide uninsured residents with health services, often for preventable diseases or diseases that doctors could treat more efficiently with earlier diagnosis.

Hospitals provide about $34 billion worth of uncompensated care a year. Who do you think pays for that?

Uninsured are 30 to 50 % more likely to be hospitalized for an avoidable condition, with the average cost of an avoidable hospital stayed estimated to be about $3,300.

The increasing reliance of the uninsured on the emergency department has serious economic implications, since the cost of treating patients is higher in the emergency department than in other outpatient clinics and medical practices.

A study found that 29 percent of people who had health insurance were “underinsured” with coverage so meager they often postponed medical care because of costs.

Many uninsured individuals postpone needed medical care which not only results in increased mortality but also billions of dollars lost in productivity and increased expenses.

I am just wondering who Mr. Goodman thinks is going to being paying for those emergency room "treatments" of the uninsured? Santa Claus?

But for starters it would be nice if Mr. Goodman could at least get the numbers straight.
 
Cato Institute is not a good source. They're very conservative, biased & have a tendency to skew facts to fit their philosophy.

Lisa--I'm curious, & I'm not trying to be snotty--if you don't like your health care being managed by medical bureacrats, & don't want it managed by govmt bureacrats, then what IS the solution? Our health care system is broken & needs fixing. I hear an awful lot of people criticizing Obama's plan, but not offering up any logical solutions.

Baylian--I think what you see sticks out to you b/c it's a pet peeve. I actually did a paper on welfare bennies for an internship I did w/a senator. Most of the research showed welfare, including medicaid bennies, is a political issue. At the time (mid-90s approximately), less than 5% of those on welfare were AA. The vast majority were poor whites living in rural areas. Over 90% of those who went on welfare were off within a year. It's less than .02% of the national budget. Of course there are people who work the system, that's inevitable, but it's not nearly as much as what's perceived. It's a non-issue, really.

Now if you want to talk finances & things we're paying for that we shouldn't be, perhaps we should discuss a certain war.......or a certain senator/frmr presidential candidate who's pretty much advocating we start a third front war. To me, that's just pure insanity.

Or maybe obese white men drinking 3-4 liters of Pepsi every day, six packs of beer every night, eating chicken fried steak & using the mantra "exercise is overrated." (this is not a made up quote, it's one I hear from an obese white man all the time)

What's an issue is children who are sick & can't afford to see a doc. What's an issue is anyone w/serious medical issues who can't afford medical care or prescriptions. What's an issue is that any time some kind of solution is proposed, it's branded w/the "S" word & the opposition party uses lies & scare tactics to prevent implementation.
 
I know that in some of the poorer neighborhoods of NYC there are no stores to buy fresh produce. There are no supermarkets. You are stuck with the little neighborhood stores that sell convenience items. I remember when the mayor of NY tried to give supermarkets incentives to open stores in poorer neighborhoods.

Phyllis - This is absolutely true. I saw a piece on this on Bill Moyers' show. He was interviewing Michael Pollan. There are places in the U.S. where actual ACCESS (as in availability) to decent food is the barrier...not just cost.
 
To add to the mess, many docs are practicing defensive medicine in order to protect themselves from frivolous lawsuits. That bumps up the cost, monetary and otherwise, way more than people realize.

A lot needs to change.
 
Maybe instead of focusing on all the negatives of socialized medicine and comparing apples to oranges - why not compare apples to apples. Socialized medicine, health care for all, whatever you want to call it, does not have to emulate Canada's system, or Britains, or France's. Why not compare all of them, and pick the elements that work best for us? Sweden is supposed to have an excellent plan - I don't have time to go into it all now, but it would help if the powers that be, would start looking outside of the box, stop quibbling about details that can be changed/fixed, and fix our freakin' health care system! Regardless, what we have now, isn't working for most Americans! Doesn't "We the people.." include all citizens of this country?
 
Maybe instead of focusing on all the negatives of socialized medicine and comparing apples to oranges - why not compare apples to apples. Socialized medicine, health care for all, whatever you want to call it, does not have to emulate Canada's system, or Britains, or France's. Why not compare all of them, and pick the elements that work best for us? Sweden is supposed to have an excellent plan - I don't have time to go into it all now, but it would help if the powers that be, would start looking outside of the box, stop quibbling about details that can be changed/fixed, and fix our freakin' health care system! Regardless, what we have now, isn't working for most Americans! Doesn't "We the people.." include all citizens of this country?

This is EXACTLY what Taiwan did when they overhauled their health care system.

I've posted this link before, but dammit, I'm posting it again. Watch "Sick Around the World", it's excellent:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

It's a Frontline piece that examines the health care systems of Britain, Germany, Japan, Taiwan and Sweden.

The Cliff Notes summary can be found here, but watch the full video if you can spare the time. I learned a lot:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/countries/
 
I like that idea too.

See, this is what people aren't getting--that IS Obama's plan! Basically if you already have health insurance through your employer you get to keep it. There will be a number of other options offered through participating insurance cos. that will be an option for those who either don't like their employer based plan or do not have insurance at all.

It's all in the link I posted above--it's actually pretty straightforward, easy reading. ;)
 
See, this is what people aren't getting--that IS Obama's plan! Basically if you already have health insurance through your employer you get to keep it. There will be a number of other options offered through participating insurance cos. that will be an option for those who either don't like their employer based plan or do not have insurance at all.

It's all in the link I posted above--it's actually pretty straightforward, easy reading. ;)

I have read the plan and it makes sense to me. My one concern, as is my concern with ALL politicians, is that this was a campaign plan and promise. Will he be able to stick to that plan/promise? All politicians promise the moon ("read my lips, no new taxes" comes to mind). However, many once they take office either conveniently forget or find that the plan isn't feasible or politically wise (repealing "don't ask, don't tell" as Obama promised). I would like "we the people" to ensure President Obama keeps Candidate Obama's promise to revamp the US healthcare industry. It is in dire need of an overhaul and I think the vast majority of Americans are looking for change.

Carrie
 

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