So, who won the debate?

That's interesting. Every religion has some variety of that answer...

That's the great thing about America-- you can believe whatever you want to, regardless of how silly it might sound to someone else! :)



"How can ye reject
The faith in Allah? -- Seeing that ye were without life,
And He gave you life;
Then will He cause you to die,
And will again bring you to life;
And again to Him ye will return."

The Qur'an, Al Baqarah, 2:28
 
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For anyone who thinks that God is "against" gays, please watch this movie if you ever get the opportunity:

http://www.forthebibletellsmeso.org/indexd.htm

It is a very fair look at the Bible's stance on homosexuality and puts it in perspective. People love to point to the "homosexuality is an abomination" part (which in ancient Hebrew actually meant "not of the culture") but among other abominations were eating shrimp and wearing linen and wool together. Yet for some reason no one freaks out about those anymore.

My favorite part of the movie comes at the end, when the amazing Archbishop Desmond Tutu, who has taken on homophobia as his late-life work, says,

"I can not imagine dying and God saying,
'I hate you because you are black. You should have been white.' or
'I hate you because you are a woman. You should have been a man.' or
'I hate you because you are a homosexual. You should have been straight."

Sums up my feelings perfectly.
 
andtckrtoo said:
Okay- I'm not even touching abortion...

BUT - I find the idea that "God" has been taken out of the equation on same sex marriages ridiculous and highly offensive. Have you ever actually known a gay person - man or woman. Seriously. Have you? Because if you have, you would know without a doubt that there is NO choice for them. That is the way they are. Period. They were born that way. Most of them at some point, at least before they have come to accept their reality, have wished to be anything other than what they are. In every animal species observed, there have been examples of gay animals - you cannot tell me that those animals choose to be gay. It's a natural thing. I find it very hard to believe that any God would create someone then abandon them just because they behaved in the way they were created to behave. And if he/she does, then that is not a god in which I wish to believe.

And the question I have to ask, is how does two men or two women getting married and enjoying the same benefits as the rest of us married folk, hurt YOU in any way?

*Steps off soap box*
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Yes, I do know quite a few gay people and several I work with. They are wonderful people although I don't agree with their lifestyle, but I love them as humanity just the same. In the same vein, I would not vote in a president who would legalize same sex marriage.

God does not make people gay. The bible says homosexulity is an abomination to God. We are all made in His image.
 
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Yes! I love this.

Take a gander at this letter (directed at Dr. Laura Schlesinger, rabidly Christian, anti-gay talk show host), which outlines alot of OTHER things that the Bible says, since that's the position you're taking:



Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan,
Jim




So, are we now just picking and choosing what we will and won't follow from the Bible?
 
hortyhoos1 said:
Yes, I do know quite a few gay people and several I work with. They are wonderful people although I don't agree with their lifestyle, but I love them as humanity just the same. In the same vein, I would not vote in a president who would legalize same sex marriage.
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I doubt gay people would consider their gayness a "lifestyle". It's not a choice they make.

The 'legalizing same-sex marriage" issue was adressed already (several times) in previous posts. Like McCain, you seem to be repeating catch phrases. Is there no thought that goes into this? Is that what blind faith means?

hortyhoos1 said:
God does not make people gay. The bible says homosexuality is an abomination to God.

We are all made in His image.
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More catch phrases.

The Bible (isn't that supposed to be capitalized?) says a lot of things (which MCunningham pointed out in her post). Interesting piece of literature, but it was written by men, with their human foibles and prejudices. People have used it to justify many things.

And if we are all made in God's image, doesn't this also apply to gays?

I don't get your going from "homosexuality is an abomination to God"to "we are all made in His image". So God is hetrosexual? God is sexual?
 
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sin in the life of the believer brings sorrow; but salvation in Christ is secure forever. So, my dear friend, if you want peace and blessing in your life, the invitation comes clear and simple from the heart of God in Isaiah 45:22, Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth, for I am God and there is none else. :)
 
I'm in the minority as usual...

...in these political threads, but I though McCain won this debate. I'm looking forward to the Thursday VP debate and wondering how long it will take for Biden to spout a gaff.
 
kathryn said:
I doubt gay people would consider their gayness a "lifestyle". It's not a choice they make.

The 'legalizing same-sex marriage" issue was adressed already (several times) in previous posts. Like McCain, you seem to be repeating catch phrases. Is there no thought that goes into this? Is that what blind faith means?



More catch phrases.

The Bible (isn't that supposed to be capitalized?) says a lot of things (which MCunningham pointed out in her post). Interesting piece of literature, but it was written by men, with their human foibles and prejudices. People have used it to justify many things.

And if we are all made in God's image, doesn't this also apply to gays?

I don't get your going from "homosexuality is an abomination to God"to "we are all made in His image". So God is hetrosexual? God is sexual?
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Why are you so angry? I simply stated my thoughts on the the presidential debate, and I was bombarded by a flurry of jabs and insults. I don't need to defend my position in relation to God. I've been on both sides of the fence, and after much searching and reading of the Bible, I've found the only One who can redeem this broken life. He has my allegiance and my all. He tells us too that the Word is foolishness to those are are perishing. I choose to believe.
 
I guess I'm in the minority, too

Well, I for one cannot see why there is so much buzz around Obama. For one, he's hardly experienced to run a country. We don't need someone who has to learn on the job. The country is in way too deep for that to happen. And just what is it specificially that you all think he can do for this country? What I got out from the debate is that he'll spend, spend, spend for all these programs, he'll be everyone's friend in the world (in other words, no backbone to face our enemies and protect our country), and there will be no more "United States of America."

To me, Obama is just a fad because the current president is not very well liked. There is no substance behind his self-absored facade.
 
Is Obama a Muslim? See link below

Since religion is a hot topic on this thread, I thought this was good information.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_barack_obama_muslim.htm

He's just too arrogant for me:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_obama_seal.htm

and this
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_obama_removes_flag_from_plane.htm

In addition, when so many people are losing their homes, afraid of losing their jobs, he holds a $28,500 a plate fundraiser...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26736681/
 
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baylian said:
Also - I get darn tired of getting behind these people (mostly women) who have kids out of wedlock that they cannot support, paying with food stamps, not working and have the bling going, cell phones, nails done and buying really crappy food to feed the children and this scene will only increase with Obama in office. The social programs will go through the roof. And I for one am tired of watching 40% of my DH's hard earned money go to support these people.

I feel the debate was pretty much a yawner and a draw. Neither had the collective knock down. And for all that say "he sounded like a president" - there is a big diff between sounding and being. I guess if I had to say that there was one moment that caught my ear and that was McCain's come back on sitting down with the president of Iraq. I agree we need to protect Israel's interest and not legitimize these rogue nations. Someone wrote earlier that shifting the war to Afghanistan will in reality prolong our presence there so to speak and they are right. I'm sorry - can't remember who wrote that.

QUOTE]

It seems I am in the minority and support McCain and I agree with the above poster. I am tired of having my paycheck socked with taxes, and then still owing when April 15 comes around.
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baylian said:
It seems I am in the minority and support McCain and I agree with the above poster. I am tired of having my paycheck socked with taxes, and then still owing when April 15 comes around.
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So do you think McCain will lessen our tax burden? I think we are still going to pay a ridiculous amount of taxes like we do now, and still owe in April with either candidate.

Obama mentioned a plan to cut taxes for married couples making under 250,000K. Has McCain discussed his plans for taxes? I'm not being sarcastic, I actually don't know, I don't pay super close attention to all of this.
 
Ta, HA HA HA

cakebaker said:
...in these political threads, but I though McCain won this debate. I'm looking forward to the Thursday VP debate and wondering how long it will take for Biden to spout a gaff.
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Me either - you KNOW it's going to happen!
 
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