I cop to slacking on deads. I spend to much time on things I like and that's counterproductive!! The positioning always feels awkward and I have had a few minor strains in the past. I need to get a tuitorial,do it right and do it!! Like Karen said doing something is better than nothing and while I need deads and will try to be better at least we are ALL ahead of the rank and file by doing something
Nia Shanks
- Thread starter MomInVT
- Start date
TurquoiseEyes
Cathlete
I think we have to be willing to play around with foot positioning, hand grip, hip hinge, knee bend...much like perfecting our own personal squat position...to deadlift in a way that feels good for each of us. I have no idea what your build is. From an anatomical standpoint, I have read that people with long calves or legs and short arms can be at a genetic disadvantage with deadlifts. I personally prefer the stiff-legged version because I feel them more where I need them- the hams. I also make sure to do bridgework or hip thrusts & tablework at least twice a week.
The following isn't really aimed at anyone in particular, it's just general observation and advice about deadlifts from my own training and a few others I know...Making a suggestion to anyone struggling with them that is PURELY from personal experience (in other words, I make no claims for medical or scientific backup here!), it's to get really good first at 1) spinal erector exercises 2) floorwork- leg lifts for the medial glutes, inner and outer thighs, 3) tablework, and 4) bridgework/hip thrusts. When done with good form, I believe that they build up the core and hamstring muscle flexibility + strength in a safer way than deadlifts, especially for people with limited lower back flexibility and strength. Once those four things can be done with great form and maybe with some ankle weights or dumbbells used (as appropriate), deadlifts usually feel easier, more natural, and less painful. That is purely anecdotal, just something me and a few other people on another weight-training forum have noticed. I don't know if that's equally applicable to men and women, but I know as a woman that my adductors (for example) were pathetically weak. I couldn't dream of doing a decent lunge until I'd strengthened them up. Some of the bodyweight-only work on a stability ball for hamstrings that Cathe does (GS is one that utilizes them) are great in term of feeling the muscle work in a different way and stretching them out. However, I find those exercises are not all that effective for putting on any mass or making deadlifts easier. That's just my experience, though.
I'm not necessarily the norm, but I think much of what I'm saying is applicable to a fair number of trainees. I know many people don't look at them this way, but I do consider spinal erector exercises, tablework, floorwork, and bridgework/hip thrusts essential to building a foundation of strength. I think this is especially true if we've spent a lot of time sitting in our lives, either in school or on the job and/or have weak legs due to our genes. With as much time as we've spent with legs tucked under a desk, it's no wonder so many of us have knee and back pain by age thirty or so! I aim to do these types of exercises twice a week or so without fail, and my training suffers every time I have ever let this one rule slip. I could not do standing work well at all without mastering floorwork first- I don't have the genes for strong legs with knees and ankles that cooperate with lunging and squatting well. Floorwork doesn't replace standing leg work, but wow, does it ever make all of it easier. They address weaknesses hard to hit in standing work- adductors, abductors, medial glutes...I also avoid sitting at a desk or table as much as possible, and try to shift my legs a lot in different postitions if I'm stuck at one all day.
Push-ups are my personal Waterloo. I try and try. but I barely see any progress with them at all. A year into serious training and I still suck at them. It could just be that I'm not built well to support as much as I weigh easily in a push-up position. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
TurquoiseEyes
Cathlete
I appreciate the answers. Thank you for taking the time to tell me your experience with it. Yeah, the long exercising does make me ravenous at times, no doubt! I'm generally a healthy eater, but wow, am I hungrier and hungrier the more advanced I get!
Oh my word, hill sprints. Those just sound scary, LOL. Like when people suggest running up steps for cardio at a track or stadium. For one thing, I am a bit full-figured for such a venture. I'm a klutz with a holy terror of falling on concrete, which is how I busted my knee six years ago. I also hate shoes, which is another reason why I love working out indoors. But I could probably substitute some high step climbing or perhaps plyometric jumps indoors for a similar effect?
I suspect that I may need a program under my belt that does NOT wear me out to me to my utter limit for hours or days afterwards as I progress into my senior year of college, grad school, and (hopefully) a full-time job again. One which I'm sure will come with a fairly long commute. On top of having fibromyalgia...yeah, I know myself. I love Cathe and The FIRM classics workouts, which I also still use. Right now I usually have the hour each day most of the time to exercise, but I appreciate knowing that there are some great alternatives that might at least keep me from gaining any weight back, would develop new strengths, and not take as much time up each day. Thank you again for letting me know all this info.
Lizzie
TurquoiseEyes
Cathlete
"That's why we lift, right? To make everything stronger, so there are no injuries." That is really great advice. It reminded me of something Anna Benson wrote years ago, that we ideally are training to have an injury- and pain-free existence. Boy, do I need the reminder to stop training so hard that I create the very pain I'm trying to avoid. I'm usually good about listening to my body, but I have my days when I probably ought to back off on some stuff and don't. It can be difficult to find that balance between pushing ourselves so that we'll grow as athletes and get the body changes we want and training for the long haul instead...
Justinef
Cathlete
Well, I've just completed my first BB workout. That was different. I could have been in and out in 25. Weird! I did a brief warm-up (but I'd already walked my dogs, so it was more mobility than cardio), then LOTS of warm-up sets for the exercises. Mainly because I didn't know where I was headed. I've since re-read the manual, and we're supposed to do low-rep warm-ups - not like Cathe's 12 reps in meso #3. Whoops, I got that wrong! Anyway, I EVENTUALLY found a way 1 could do low reps for push-ups - feet in the suspension trainer. (Band resisted felt funny trying to pin the band down, and my claustrophobia means I hate wearing a weighted vest - I don't even like sports bras without a fastening!)
Once I'd finished, I added some of the 'finishers' on. (Lizzie - as well as the hill-sprints Roz mentioned, Nia has ideas for 'finishers' or quick cardio blasts - great for fat loss). I did finisher #1 a few times (5xrocket jumps, 10x reverse lunges each side and 20x squats, no rest). Then I did 2x10 KB swings with my 22kg KB (almost 50lb, so that's about my limit!) a quick stretch took me to 40 mins in the end.
In future I think I'll do a Cathe warm-up, probably the Tabatacise one, and then a 10 minute solution yoga flow for the stretch. I'll experiment with the finishers. I like those!
Roz - I had a look at the Gentilcore stuff - he does that 'snap' at the end of the deadlift like Nia does. Very unlike Cathe. Glad you posted that before I went off doing Cathe-style deadlifts.....
Lizzie - I'm going to re-read your posts and have a think about some of the things you said re weight loss etc, but I 100% agree with Karen. We have to enjoy what we do!
xx
Once I'd finished, I added some of the 'finishers' on. (Lizzie - as well as the hill-sprints Roz mentioned, Nia has ideas for 'finishers' or quick cardio blasts - great for fat loss). I did finisher #1 a few times (5xrocket jumps, 10x reverse lunges each side and 20x squats, no rest). Then I did 2x10 KB swings with my 22kg KB (almost 50lb, so that's about my limit!) a quick stretch took me to 40 mins in the end.
In future I think I'll do a Cathe warm-up, probably the Tabatacise one, and then a 10 minute solution yoga flow for the stretch. I'll experiment with the finishers. I like those!
Roz - I had a look at the Gentilcore stuff - he does that 'snap' at the end of the deadlift like Nia does. Very unlike Cathe. Glad you posted that before I went off doing Cathe-style deadlifts.....
Lizzie - I'm going to re-read your posts and have a think about some of the things you said re weight loss etc, but I 100% agree with Karen. We have to enjoy what we do!
xx
Thanks MominVT!!I think we have to be willing to play around with foot positioning, hand grip, hip hinge, knee bend...much like perfecting our own personal squat position...to deadlift in a way that feels good for each of us. I have no idea what your build is. From an anatomical standpoint, I have read that people with long calves or legs and short arms can be at a genetic disadvantage with deadlifts. I personally prefer the stiff-legged version because I feel them more where I need them- the hams. I also make sure to do bridgework or hip thrusts & tablework at least twice a week.
The following isn't really aimed at anyone in particular, it's just general observation and advice about deadlifts from my own training and a few others I know...Making a suggestion to anyone struggling with them that is PURELY from personal experience (in other words, I make no claims for medical or scientific backup here!), it's to get really good first at 1) spinal erector exercises 2) floorwork- leg lifts for the medial glutes, inner and outer thighs, 3) tablework, and 4) bridgework/hip thrusts. When done with good form, I believe that they build up the core and hamstring muscle flexibility + strength in a safer way than deadlifts, especially for people with limited lower back flexibility and strength. Once those four things can be done with great form and maybe with some ankle weights or dumbbells used (as appropriate), deadlifts usually feel easier, more natural, and less painful. That is purely anecdotal, just something me and a few other people on another weight-training forum have noticed. I don't know if that's equally applicable to men and women, but I know as a woman that my adductors (for example) were pathetically weak. I couldn't dream of doing a decent lunge until I'd strengthened them up. Some of the bodyweight-only work on a stability ball for hamstrings that Cathe does (GS is one that utilizes them) are great in term of feeling the muscle work in a different way and stretching them out. However, I find those exercises are not all that effective for putting on any mass or making deadlifts easier. That's just my experience, though.
I'm not necessarily the norm, but I think much of what I'm saying is applicable to a fair number of trainees. I know many people don't look at them this way, but I do consider spinal erector exercises, tablework, floorwork, and bridgework/hip thrusts essential to building a foundation of strength. I think this is especially true if we've spent a lot of time sitting in our lives, either in school or on the job and/or have weak legs due to our genes. With as much time as we've spent with legs tucked under a desk, it's no wonder so many of us have knee and back pain by age thirty or so! I aim to do these types of exercises twice a week or so without fail, and my training suffers every time I have ever let this one rule slip. I could not do standing work well at all without mastering floorwork first- I don't have the genes for strong legs with knees and ankles that cooperate with lunging and squatting well. Floorwork doesn't replace standing leg work, but wow, does it ever make all of it easier. They address weaknesses hard to hit in standing work- adductors, abductors, medial glutes...I also avoid sitting at a desk or table as much as possible, and try to shift my legs a lot in different postitions if I'm stuck at one all day.
Push-ups are my personal Waterloo. I try and try. but I barely see any progress with them at all. A year into serious training and I still suck at them. It could just be that I'm not built well to support as much as I weigh easily in a push-up position. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
I think we have to be willing to play around with foot positioning, hand grip, hip hinge, knee bend...much like perfecting our own personal squat position...to deadlift in a way that feels good for each of us. I have no idea what your build is. From an anatomical standpoint, I have read that people with long calves or legs and short arms can be at a genetic disadvantage with deadlifts. I personally prefer the stiff-legged version because I feel them more where I need them- the hams. I also make sure to do bridgework or hip thrusts & tablework at least twice a week.
The following isn't really aimed at anyone in particular, it's just general observation and advice about deadlifts from my own training and a few others I know...Making a suggestion to anyone struggling with them that is PURELY from personal experience (in other words, I make no claims for medical or scientific backup here!), it's to get really good first at 1) spinal erector exercises 2) floorwork- leg lifts for the medial glutes, inner and outer thighs, 3) tablework, and 4) bridgework/hip thrusts. When done with good form, I believe that they build up the core and hamstring muscle flexibility + strength in a safer way than deadlifts, especially for people with limited lower back flexibility and strength. Once those four things can be done with great form and maybe with some ankle weights or dumbbells used (as appropriate), deadlifts usually feel easier, more natural, and less painful. That is purely anecdotal, just something me and a few other people on another weight-training forum have noticed. I don't know if that's equally applicable to men and women, but I know as a woman that my adductors (for example) were pathetically weak. I couldn't dream of doing a decent lunge until I'd strengthened them up. Some of the bodyweight-only work on a stability ball for hamstrings that Cathe does (GS is one that utilizes them) are great in term of feeling the muscle work in a different way and stretching them out. However, I find those exercises are not all that effective for putting on any mass or making deadlifts easier. That's just my experience, though.
I'm not necessarily the norm, but I think much of what I'm saying is applicable to a fair number of trainees. I know many people don't look at them this way, but I do consider spinal erector exercises, tablework, floorwork, and bridgework/hip thrusts essential to building a foundation of strength. I think this is especially true if we've spent a lot of time sitting in our lives, either in school or on the job and/or have weak legs due to our genes. With as much time as we've spent with legs tucked under a desk, it's no wonder so many of us have knee and back pain by age thirty or so! I aim to do these types of exercises twice a week or so without fail, and my training suffers every time I have ever let this one rule slip. I could not do standing work well at all without mastering floorwork first- I don't have the genes for strong legs with knees and ankles that cooperate with lunging and squatting well. Floorwork doesn't replace standing leg work, but wow, does it ever make all of it easier. They address weaknesses hard to hit in standing work- adductors, abductors, medial glutes...I also avoid sitting at a desk or table as much as possible, and try to shift my legs a lot in different postitions if I'm stuck at one all day.
Push-ups are my personal Waterloo. I try and try. but I barely see any progress with them at all. A year into serious training and I still suck at them. It could just be that I'm not built well to support as much as I weigh easily in a push-up position. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
I think we have to be willing to play around with foot positioning, hand grip, hip hinge, knee bend...much like perfecting our own personal squat position...to deadlift in a way that feels good for each of us. I have no idea what your build is. From an anatomical standpoint, I have read that people with long calves or legs and short arms can be at a genetic disadvantage with deadlifts. I personally prefer the stiff-legged version because I feel them more where I need them- the hams. I also make sure to do bridgework or hip thrusts & tablework at least twice a week.
The following isn't really aimed at anyone in particular, it's just general observation and advice about deadlifts from my own training and a few others I know...Making a suggestion to anyone struggling with them that is PURELY from personal experience (in other words, I make no claims for medical or scientific backup here!), it's to get really good first at 1) spinal erector exercises 2) floorwork- leg lifts for the medial glutes, inner and outer thighs, 3) tablework, and 4) bridgework/hip thrusts. When done with good form, I believe that they build up the core and hamstring muscle flexibility + strength in a safer way than deadlifts, especially for people with limited lower back flexibility and strength. Once those four things can be done with great form and maybe with some ankle weights or dumbbells used (as appropriate), deadlifts usually feel easier, more natural, and less painful. That is purely anecdotal, just something me and a few other people on another weight-training forum have noticed. I don't know if that's equally applicable to men and women, but I know as a woman that my adductors (for example) were pathetically weak. I couldn't dream of doing a decent lunge until I'd strengthened them up. Some of the bodyweight-only work on a stability ball for hamstrings that Cathe does (GS is one that utilizes them) are great in term of feeling the muscle work in a different way and stretching them out. However, I find those exercises are not all that effective for putting on any mass or making deadlifts easier. That's just my experience, though.
I'm not necessarily the norm, but I think much of what I'm saying is applicable to a fair number of trainees. I know many people don't look at them this way, but I do consider spinal erector exercises, tablework, floorwork, and bridgework/hip thrusts essential to building a foundation of strength. I think this is especially true if we've spent a lot of time sitting in our lives, either in school or on the job and/or have weak legs due to our genes. With as much time as we've spent with legs tucked under a desk, it's no wonder so many of us have knee and back pain by age thirty or so! I aim to do these types of exercises twice a week or so without fail, and my training suffers every time I have ever let this one rule slip. I could not do standing work well at all without mastering floorwork first- I don't have the genes for strong legs with knees and ankles that cooperate with lunging and squatting well. Floorwork doesn't replace standing leg work, but wow, does it ever make all of it easier. They address weaknesses hard to hit in standing work- adductors, abductors, medial glutes...I also avoid sitting at a desk or table as much as possible, and try to shift my legs a lot in different postitions if I'm stuck at one all day.
Push-ups are my personal Waterloo. I try and try. but I barely see any progress with them at all. A year into serious training and I still suck at them. It could just be that I'm not built well to support as much as I weigh easily in a push-up position. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
Thanks TurquoiseEyes. I wrote a long thank you and it got messed up so here we go again! What you say makes much sense. I am 6'1" with lousy flexibility!! I nearly flunked a football physical because I couldn't touch my toes..and I was a running back!! I formerly did more floorwork and it helped. I will study the tutorial and will do deads on back day because quads are fried on leg day I think your advice is spot on and I appreciate it much!!!
desertambrosia
Cathlete
Any time. It's big, and we would all have a blast running around like a bunch of elementary school kids.
TurquoiseEyes
Cathlete
I found this today and I think it gives some valid advice, a few things I've not heard suggested, and seems to address a few issues you mentioned. Hope it helps.
TurquoiseEyes
Cathlete
Have you ever tried any of Marianne Kane's Kitty8Tim workouts on YouTube? She uses kettlebells a lot. Chin-ups, Bulgarian split-squats, pistol squats, hip thrusts, pushups with explosive variations, and jump squat variations are all done a lot. The workouts look tough but doable. I've never seen anyone with quite as much leg flexibility AND useful strength as her. I've never tried them because I admittedly really rely on music and personal coaching (however virtual) as I exercise to keep going, and she's more of a demonstration coach for the self-motivated. (Which heaven knows, I'm not!) She puts out what look like short, intense routines for the time-pressed, though. I am so into structured, choreographed, music-driven routines, I can't say they're my thing. But I do think she's done some cool little routines based highly on HIIT and bodyweight or heavy weights with lower reps, so I thought I'd mention them.
desertambrosia
Cathlete
That is a good question. really!!
Decided to go for Simple Strength 2 instead of the heavy singles program. I have more time over the summer, so I'd prefer to lift 4 days/week, rather than 3. I just did my second workout today, loving it. First workout used my new Jungle Gym -- amazing. Great piece of equipment! Today was deadlifts, 2x5. So much harder than 2x3. I think next week I may strip off some weight, just to be sure I've got 100% neutral spine. But I wonder if I'm actually neutral and I feel like I should hyperextend ever so slightly? Hard to tell. My form is good, but I'm a perfectionist.
Also, doing glute bridges for the first time. 4x10, superset with ab wheel rollouts. I've really only done the 100 rep hip thrust challenge, so I was confused about weight selection. I stuck with 95# but felt I could go heavier. Curious about your weight loads for this exercise, though of course I know we're all snowflakes!
Hope you're have fun with your programs!
Karen, I saw your post re: fasting... are you going to compete? Hope you're feeling better...
x's + o's
Roz
Also, doing glute bridges for the first time. 4x10, superset with ab wheel rollouts. I've really only done the 100 rep hip thrust challenge, so I was confused about weight selection. I stuck with 95# but felt I could go heavier. Curious about your weight loads for this exercise, though of course I know we're all snowflakes!
Hope you're have fun with your programs!
Karen, I saw your post re: fasting... are you going to compete? Hope you're feeling better...
x's + o's
Roz
Justinef
Cathlete
Simple Strength 2 (dashes off to check out what that consists of...) OOHH that looks good! I agree re the Jungle gym - I'm loving using mine - I even feel some things are easier due to hand position.
Yesterday I was e-mailed a Tony Gentilcore deadlift youtube clip. Brilliant tips! He looked like he was in very slight hyperextension...but I guess it's horses for courses. My spine naturally hyperextends, and I have to consciously tighten my abs and curl my pelvis to stop it happening too much.
Glute bridges: I ended up with 70kg on the bar (154lb)!!! Next time I'm going to lower the weight, but raise my shoulders and feet for a greater ROM. I wasn't really feeling it in my glutes - more my hamstrings. I noticed Nia keeps her toes up during the thrust.
I had the best workout today - along to Bruce Springsteen (!!!) Working on the Highway during overhead presses, I'm on Fire during my finisher, and to cap it all : I Surrender as the last song. Hilarious. Took me right back to being 16 years old and watching him on his Born in the USA tour!!! Tomorrow it's deadlifts to I'm going Down, and Glory Days. Perhaps I'll end up Dancing in the Dark
I've a few moves to sort out next week ( I may do incline bench knee raises, rather than hanging ones - at least for some sets), and I have to sort out which push-up variation is JUST right, but I love the programme already!
Karen....contest weight, eh? Get the spray tan ready.....
Yesterday I was e-mailed a Tony Gentilcore deadlift youtube clip. Brilliant tips! He looked like he was in very slight hyperextension...but I guess it's horses for courses. My spine naturally hyperextends, and I have to consciously tighten my abs and curl my pelvis to stop it happening too much.
Glute bridges: I ended up with 70kg on the bar (154lb)!!! Next time I'm going to lower the weight, but raise my shoulders and feet for a greater ROM. I wasn't really feeling it in my glutes - more my hamstrings. I noticed Nia keeps her toes up during the thrust.
I had the best workout today - along to Bruce Springsteen (!!!) Working on the Highway during overhead presses, I'm on Fire during my finisher, and to cap it all : I Surrender as the last song. Hilarious. Took me right back to being 16 years old and watching him on his Born in the USA tour!!! Tomorrow it's deadlifts to I'm going Down, and Glory Days. Perhaps I'll end up Dancing in the Dark
I've a few moves to sort out next week ( I may do incline bench knee raises, rather than hanging ones - at least for some sets), and I have to sort out which push-up variation is JUST right, but I love the programme already!
Karen....contest weight, eh? Get the spray tan ready.....
desertambrosia
Cathlete
Decided to go for Simple Strength 2 instead of the heavy singles program. I have more time over the summer, so I'd prefer to lift 4 days/week, rather than 3. I just did my second workout today, loving it. First workout used my new Jungle Gym -- amazing. Great piece of equipment! Today was deadlifts, 2x5. So much harder than 2x3. I think next week I may strip off some weight, just to be sure I've got 100% neutral spine. But I wonder if I'm actually neutral and I feel like I should hyperextend ever so slightly? Hard to tell. My form is good, but I'm a perfectionist.
Also, doing glute bridges for the first time. 4x10, superset with ab wheel rollouts. I've really only done the 100 rep hip thrust challenge, so I was confused about weight selection. I stuck with 95# but felt I could go heavier. Curious about your weight loads for this exercise, though of course I know we're all snowflakes!
Hope you're have fun with your programs!
Karen, I saw your post re: fasting... are you going to compete? Hope you're feeling better...
x's + o's
Roz
No, no competition, those days are over for me. I just liked the way I looked and felt at that time.But, then again, I was younger, and getting cut was a lot easier.
Just read your post Justine, I workout with THE BOSS (Springsteen) I remember those Glory Days. Glad you are enjoying Nia. For some reason, I knew you would like her.
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Justine, glad you're loving Nia!
And thanks -- I think I probably could have done 125# on bridges -- probably not (comfortably) 154.
I've been doing reverse crunches with ankle weights and a stability ball b/c the hanging knee raises are so awkward on my rickety squat stand. We're getting a power tower this week, so that should help. I'm loving working chinups weekly. I might add a couple to my other UB day, just to really drive them home.
Karen, I used to (without knowing it was a 'plan') do most of my eating between 11am and 3pm, and really felt good that way. Maybe again someday, but now with my lifestyle/goals it's not really feasible.
And thanks -- I think I probably could have done 125# on bridges -- probably not (comfortably) 154.
I've been doing reverse crunches with ankle weights and a stability ball b/c the hanging knee raises are so awkward on my rickety squat stand. We're getting a power tower this week, so that should help. I'm loving working chinups weekly. I might add a couple to my other UB day, just to really drive them home.
Karen, I used to (without knowing it was a 'plan') do most of my eating between 11am and 3pm, and really felt good that way. Maybe again someday, but now with my lifestyle/goals it's not really feasible.
desertambrosia
Cathlete
Midnight Confessions...(I remember that song) This months rotation includes front squats. Now, while regular squats are my forte, and quite comfortable for me, front squats are the worst!! It's a very awkward move, always has been. The bar doesn't sit on my shoulders correctly, it cuts across my throat. Therefore, I'm trying to hold the bar with my arms. Just pathetic. They aren't even at the pathetic level yet, they're still at pitiful, after all these years. Having the weight in the front, is nice as a counter balance to really sit into it, but I'm sure anyone watching, would be ROFL. Roz, Justine, Honorary tslop49, anybody have a great (or even good) front squat? Four weeks of these, ouch!
I agree..don't do them often but do find them awkward. Easier on machines that help stabilize but can't find those in my basement!!! I've seen people with elbows out and I have seen the bar grasped like a curl bar under the chin, but always seem hard to get comfortable with! I used to use my soloflex (blast from the past) and maybe should try again.