Is your dog a killer, too?

[eminenz2]

My dog is a black lab. I frequently take her on walks where she is allowed to run off the leash.

She is a rescue dog, and I have never owned a dog before.

Her death toll...

9 ground hogs

2 foxes (one today)

1 baby bird

1 house mouse

1 mole

she eats bugs when she can, including bees

1/2 raccoon (I was able to call her off before she finished it off, but it looked really shaky when we left it.)

Damn near chased a fawn to death, but I was able to intercept her. Who new fawns could scream like that?



Why does she do this? Does your dog do this too? I try to call her off when I can but she's so freakin' fast! Then I wonder if I should interrupt her, lest she get bit big time by whatever she's trying to kill because she's not paying attention.

I suppose I could keep her on the leash at all times, but she does enjoy a good run, which I think is healthy for hunting/sport dogs. When we walk by the creek she doesn't do this, she just jumps in and out of the water.

And she doesn't do this everytime, because even off the 6ft leash, she is connected to me by an electronic collar, and I do keep her fairly close. But sometimes, man, she just gets a noseful of whatever, and bam!, she's off!

What is/are your opinion(s)?

Thanks!

 

[syzygy314]

Well, she is a retriever. My two would catch birds in the yard, chase after anything with four legs! They weren't quite as successful as yours, though! Ours were trained to respond only to our commands in the field, so they wouldn't chase if we were with them unless we told them to. Have you had any obedience training with her? Maybe she just needs some instruction.

Tricia

 

[PhyllisG]

My opinion is that she should not be off leash if she does not obey commands. She is an accident waiting to happen. I was out with my dog a few years back and came face to face with a bear. Luckily my dog listens and we left. Can you imagine what could have happened if that was not the case and he decided to attack the bear. Your dog sounds dangerous and unpredictable to me. How long have you had this dog? Also if this is your first dog, I think you should seek the help of a professional trainer. Until she can obey basic commands and you are confident that you can control her she should be leashed. I don't think this behavior is "normal" for a hunting/sporting dog. We had weims for years and never had one that behaved like that.

 

[Sunshine1528]

We had a black lab and let me tell you how great they are at learning. Ours was leash trained, off leash trained and you could even hold his fav food in front of his mouth and he wouldn't take it unless you said "OK". (mind that he would drool puddles while waiting for the "word" though )

We also had 4 birds in the house, 2 parrots and a couple smaller ones. He knew better and you could hold the bird in his face, it would touch his nose with his beak, but the lab would not move.

So I also vote for some good training sessions.

Great dogs - think DH wants another !

 

[SirenSongWoman]

My opinion is that she should not be off leash if she does not obey commands. She is an accident waiting to happen. I was out with my dog a few years back and came face to face with a bear. Luckily my dog listens and we left. Can you imagine what could have happened if that was not the case and he decided to attack the bear. Your dog sounds dangerous and unpredictable to me. How long have you had this dog? Also if this is your first dog, I think you should seek the help of a professional trainer. Until she can obey basic commands and you are confident that you can control her she should be leashed. I don't think this behavior is "normal" for a hunting/sporting dog. We had weims for years and never had one that behaved like that.

I agree completely.

As an aside: Da'yum...

 

[andtckrtoo]

Wow! That's scary/impressive! I agree that not allowing her off leash is probably a good idea. If you want to let her run, consider getting a long lead (a leash that is about 14 feet long) so that if she does take off, you can grab the end of the leash (or at least stamp on it with your foot). It may get tangled, but you'll need to be vigilant with her any way. It may be that even if you manage to train her, you'll need a a short piece of weighted rope that simulates a leash so she thinks you can call her back by grabbing it.

A few things - eCollars - unless they are used with absolute correctness, often do more harm than good. If you are not working with a good trainer, please don't use it, especially as a means to prevent her from running as it might make her more afraid to return to you.

There are ways to desensitize a dog to crittering. One of which is to get the scent of her favorite animal (say rabbits) from a place like Cabelo's. Put in on a decent sized piece of a handkerchief or other cloth, and rubber band it to her collar. She'll be surrounded by the scent of rabbits - and the idea is that it will descensitize her. I've seen it work, but it takes time and as dogs do not generalize very well, you'll need to do with different animals for a while.

But most importantly, you need to start working on a very strong "Leave it" command. To do this, you will want to find her favorite think in the whole wide world (hot dogs, a game of tug, frisbee, chicken - whatever works for her) and every time she successfully "Leave's It", reward her with it like tomorrow will not come again. It has to be a HUGE party - every time for long while. You want to make her not chasing something much more interesting than her chasing something. This can be really tough, but again, I have seen it work.

I would strong recommend working with a good trainer. Contact a local doggie day care, or high end dog food store to ask for recommendations.

Good luck.

 

[eminenz2]

Actually my dog is very well trained and is NOT dangerous or unpredictable and is NOT "an accident waiting to happen".

Thanks a lot.

In fact, she is an AKC certified Canine Good Citizen.

I take back my request for opinions. I should have kept my mouth shut.


Perhaps I should learn to keep my mouth shut. My apologies and g'night all!

(I would feel better if this thread would just fade away from the front page. I feel completely humiliated. Thanks.)

Well, I did ask!

 

[Shannon_B]

Hi eminenz2, don't feel bad. I don't think they meant anything mean or hurtful by it. I have a crazy dog too, a cockapoo. She's only 12lbs, but she barks like a 100lb dog. I get the dirtiest looks when I go places with her. I've trained her not to do that, but you know what? It's ok!

All dogs need work, it doesn't matter if they are the smartest one on the block! So it's ok, just do your best!

 

[PhyllisG]

I am really sorry if I offended you and didn't mean it that way at all. You asked if this was normal behavior--I think--and I really don't feel it is. My dogs will chase something but will stop when called back. I am sure otherwise she is a great dog. But you also don't want her to get injured. My friends Jack Russell took off on her while walking in the woods and was never seen again. She cried forever imagining what had happened to him. I think you said it is your first dog so it is a new experience for you and I only meant to offer some advice/ideas and not to be critical in anyway. My thoughts really are for the safety of your dog and also for the critters she is killing.

 

[MAYNARDSMOM]

Have you tried a flexi leash? That would give her more lead on the leash & you could rein her in when needed. We have chocolates, 4 as of now & we have used shock collar training on them. Greta for when you want to go off leash. When she starts to go after her next victim you can give her a zap. We love ours!
We have a female who is also a bitoverzealous on other animals. She seems to prefer rabbits (in our yard) but has also eaten a bee! You shuld have seen her poor mouth, swelled right up!
Good luck & enjoy your 4 legged friend.

 

[ShellQ]

When you ask for opinions you get them. I don't see anything but advice from others in response to your first post. No need to get defensive. Compared to other threads this has been downright civil so far. Could you please just consider 2 things? You describe yourself as a new dog owner so maybe you haven't considered:
1. What if any of those animals your dog has attacked/killed had rabies?
2. Replace any of those animals killed with a child's beloved pet. I'm sorry but it can and does happen. AKC certified or not.

Please do not take this as an attack on you. It's not at all as I don't know you from Adam. I am not here to judge you. I sincerely hope for the best possible outcome for your dog and all of the local critters.

 

[syzygy314]

I know you love your baby! We love ours and ours bark at everything (beagles now) and chase after anything in the back yard! We've had Animal Control called because way back we used to stay up late and put our dogs out before bed around 11 or midnight and they'd catch a scent and bark like mad!

Anyway, have you read the book Marley & Me? If not, I would definitely read the book (don't see the movie, they leave a lot of good stuff out). Some dogs are just happy go lucky and love to do what they do! I would try some more specified training from a place that trains hunting dogs. Your baby might just have an unusually strong hunting instinct that needs a little training!

I wouldn't worry too much, but definitely try to tame the nose if you want her to not eat all the little critters!

Tricia

Actually my dog is very well trained and is NOT dangerous or unpredictable and is NOT "an accident waiting to happen".

Thanks a lot.

In fact, she is an AKC certified Canine Good Citizen.

I take back my request for opinions. I should have kept my mouth shut.


Perhaps I should learn to keep my mouth shut. My apologies and g'night all!

(I would feel better if this thread would just fade away from the front page. I feel completely humiliated. Thanks.)

Well, I did ask!

 

[Gayle]

Damn near chased a fawn to death, but I was able to intercept her. Who new fawns could scream like that?

In my area, your dog would be shot if caught doing this...as in legally shot. Not trying to be harsh, just stating the facts.

I agree with others that if she can't be called off the "hunt" then she really shouldn't be off leash in that kind of area...this is as much for her safety as for the critters.

ITA with Christine, the "Leave it" command is a very powerful tool for deterring this behavior.

Again, not dissing your dog or you (hey, we were all new dog owners at some point), just putting that fact out there.

 

[Afreet]

Hey, nobody is perfect and I am even less perfect than most! I'm commiserating, not judging or criticizing. You rock for adopting a shelter dog!

I have two dogs, and here's the unbiased truth: they are the most awesomest, wonderfullest dogs who have ever lived. Ever. And typically their behavior is fine. They won't be getting any good citizen awards (too barky) but they are certainly my best friends.

But: they are rambunctious little terriers, and when their interest is piqued, all bets are off. I have done loads of training and while they've made improvements, it's like the sight of a squirrel flips a switch in their brains, and they can't see or hear anything but the critter they're after.

One trainer told me she'd never seen such prey-oriented dogs. My theory is that the reward of chasing something somehow always outweighs whatever punishment I mete out, or whatever reward they might get for obeying me and sitting down.

So, even though they're about 98% reliable now, they never go outside off-leash. I'm afraid they'll go haring off after a squirrel or something and get hit by a car. Since that is pretty much my worst nightmare, I suck it up and accompany them outside 5-6 times a day. It's not so bad - and it's illegal for them to be off-leash, anyway.

 

[PhyllisG]

It is the same where I live--your dog can be legally shot for doing that. Unfortunately every once in a while it happens and there is a story about it in the local paper. So far your dog has only attacked smaller weaker animals but what happens if she goes after something larger and more dangerous. Not to mention that you could get hurt trying to stop an attack or to save your dog from injury. We all love our dogs and only want them to be safe.

 

[lori254]

It's heartbreaking to think about some poor terrified little fawn running for its life. Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting down the dog for following her natural instincts, I love ALL animals. I just think she should be kept leashed when you're out and about in an area where there are lots of wildlife.

 

[sparrow13]

My sister uses the "leave it" command with her Aussie with great success.

I recently had to call Animal Control because two weeks in a row 2 gorgeous hunting dogs came into my yard and attempted to attack my hens. We were able to get the hens into the run safely but even then the dogs circled my property for over an hour, trying to get back to the coop. I felt bad for the dogs, being carted off to doggie prison, but I must and will protect my own babies.

I guess my only point is that while I don't blame the pups - they are just following instinct - that would not have helped me had I watched one of my hens being mauled to death. Dogs that will go after wild critters may go after small pets/farm animals as well. Just something to think about.

 

[Tamrahan]

How about a fenced in yard? I'll never be without one again.

 

[meowracer]

I am telling myself to stay out of this, but this time, I'm not. You asked for opinions without first giving any info about your dog except that it killed other animals, and you did that in enough detail to make me want to hurl and cry at the same time. It brings back too many painful memories. Other animals do not deserve that moment of being absolutely terrified right before being mauled to death. And leaving anything to suffer, not knowing the extent of its injuries, is horrible. Your dog may be the sweetest dog in the world to people, and I do not deny that it is following some instinct, but as its owner, you need to be responsible for your dog and its actions. If it can't be handled without a leash, then run with the dog on the leash but one day, your beloved dog may very well meet its match and then you will be the one left with a dead or mauled animal on your hands. What if it killed someone's pet? I nearly divorced my husband over his dogs. When I say this is personal, it is. This is not an attack against you or your dog - it is just coming from somebody who had to walk into the back yard after hearing the most terrible sound ever, to find that DH's dogs had just killed my beloved cat. I am not an outside cat person but Stormy was a cat who found me. I had gotten him his shots, got him neutered and all taken care of at the vet (he also needed surgery for a bad abcess on his face). Then I find out that no matter what, his instinct was to spray in the house. Therefore, he was an outside kitty who never went anywhere and even somehow had trained himself to look both ways before crossing the street. He moved with me and still never went anywhere. I had him for about 7 years when he disappeared and I am sure either he was chased or some kids were carrying him around and he got confused. After about 6 weeks and thousands of flyers, he was found. He was not back 2 weeks when for whatever reason, he went in the backyard and the dogs killed him. They also mauled a neighborhood dog and nearly killed it. I refuse to walk the dogs or go on walks with them b/c while they are the nicest dogs to people, if given the chance, they will kill any other being. And you know what?? I get to take care of them Mon-Thurs while DH travels every single week? So, yeah, it is personal and I just don't want you to cause the pain to somebody else that I have experienced, not to mention anymore pain to innocent animals out there.

 

[hiitdogs]

Don't take this as an attack on you, Susan. I think you do know that there apparently is some kind of a "problem" with your dog's prey instinct. All dogs have it, some more some less but it is the owner's responsibility to channel it and control it.

It really has nothing to do with being an AKC Canine Good Citizen. That certificate you get for your dog being able to do basic obedience commands.

The prey drive is not a basic obedience training issue like sit, stay, down etc. it's an instinct that has gone a little out of hand with your dog. She will do this as long as you let her. You may be offended by me saying this but it is a problem. The problem is not that she is going after small animals and kills them, it's that you continue to let her do that by not controlling her. I have said that before and I am sorry to say that again, dogs don't know the difference between small animals and small children. Not because they are mean, they just don't think like us. For many people our dogs are beloved pets, much like our children but we sometimes forget that they have wild animal instincts.

If you keep letting her go after these animals, she thinks it's okay to do that. I know you say that you like to let her romp off leash and that's great, I love to do that too with my dogs but that only works if the dogs listen to voice commands or hand signals, otherwise your dog can turn into a danger not only to others but also herself. What if she runs into a bear or when she goes in the zone, runs after another animal and runs into a car?

I know things happen, but that many animals killed in a fairly short time, it's an indicator for a problem. Not with the dog but with you refusing to see the problem and taking charge of your dog. If she does not listen to your commands she needs to be on a leash until she learns. Period!

As you may know I have 5 dogs, I am a certified dog trainer but when I had problems with one of my dogs going after other dogs, I hired a dog behaviorist. Sometimes when we have dogs and love him/her we don't see the obvious and we think it is an attack on us or our skills and we get defensive and even angry when people point things out.
Just take a step back and ask yourself how is what I am currently doing working for me? Apparently it isn't because you came here with a concern and we are talking about a whole bunch of dead animal and an almost killed screaming fawn.

Your dog needs to be taught what is acceptable and what is not. Labradors are softmouth dogs, they usually retrieve but they don't kill. Most Labradors can carry an egg in their mouth without breaking it. Someone needs to teach your dog how to be a Labrador again and with some dogs, especially as a new dog owner, you need professional help with your dog, for your own happiness, your dog's happiness and everyone around the dog.