Increasing numbers of child-free by choice people

>And lastly, I have found that most people who decide to not
>have kids do so because they don't want their lifestyle
>interrupted. I know 4 couples like this. That's an extremely
>selfish attitude and there is no getting around that.

Sorry if I'm being a pain in the a$$, but how exactly does not wanting a change in lifestyle make one selfish?

I think when we get right down to it we're all making this choice based on our own wants and needs. Neither is better or worse than the other.

The only reason I'm continuing this debate is that I really resent being labeled "selfish" for my choice.

I'd never grudge any of my friends and co-workers their tax breaks or flex-time, if they help build strong families, then they're good things for society. But PLEASE don't call ME selfish when I'm paying the full amount on my tax rate to the IRS, and helping to cover their workloads when they're on flex-time.

I don't want medal, I don't want a pat on the back, I just don't want to be labeled as "selfish".
 
RE: Mogambo!!!

Yes, I am pleased about this discussion. It has been interesting and respectful, and I think it's wonderful to be able to have it on this forum. I am very grateful to everyone who posted and look forward to many more conversations on this board.

I am "tickled pink" about it, but the name Pinky is already taken.

Pinketta-Mogambo-Liane
 
No nerve struck here. I am just trying to break this down the best that I can as I know every word on this site is analysed with a microscope by some.
And I certainly am not the only one putting down opinions from my perspective.
My response was to Gayle anyway, so keep your "methinks" crap to yourself. She asked me specifically to explain my opinion on how having children is unselfish. I tried to do that. If you don't like it, that's your prerogative.
 
How r u covering anything for anyone on a flex-time format? Where I work flex-time means you work your scheduled 8 hours, or whatever, anywhere in between a set amount of time. Every employee is either on it, or not on it. Sounds like an employer related problem to me...
And don't worry I am being labeled selfish elsewhere in this thread.
And again, anyone who bases a decision "based on our own wants or needs", as you yourself just said, is selfish just by the definition of the word.
So I guess all of us are selfish to some degree as I stated earlier.
You people sure are thick.
 
<<You people sure are thick.>>

Ya know, it's been my general observation that when someone has a good case for an argument, they usually don't have to resort to calling the opposing side 'thick'.
 
I wanted to add... My little boy is the best thing that has ever happened to me. The moment he was born and the nurse laid him in my arms I was overcome by love for him. I stayed up all night in the hospital staring at his face and watching him sleep. Even though I hadn't slept in 24 hours... I couldn't help but cry because I felt like a true gift had just been handed to me. I truly felt like God broke off a piece of Heaven, and gave it to me. He just turned 8 on Valentine's Day and I still watch him sleep sometimes and can't believe he's mine. He is the most precious thing in the world to me and I just can't even remember life before him. I cannot imagine not having him in my life.
 
Everybody is stereotyping everybody. Everybody has their own opinion. I am actually Pro-Choice.

I am very much influenced by the Yupee Couples in my neighborhood and I am not quite as radical as I am appearing right now (it's just so much fun to challenge people - that way you get all kinds of different perspectives).

If anyone decides not to have kids it's fine with me. But I don't want to be criticized for having two kids. They don't cause any more polution/trouble in the movie theaters (making out)/or restaurants (the picky couple) than any 'single' couple I know. I don't like kids oriented restaurants like Chuck-E-Cheeses and if we go out, we go to a real steak house.

It's better to not have kids, than having them and abusing them. We made sure, we were ready before having kids. We were married six years before we were getting pregnant, made a choice with our brains to have children and take care/raise them ourselves.

Our neighborhood has a lot of people with kids who don't have time for them - which is just as bad as physically abusing them. I see a lot of problems in this generation and I am getting nightmares if I think about my kids having to mingle with all the 'bad'ones.
 
Yeah whatever Gayle. I swear I should just listen to what people keep telling me about this place.
T.
 
Well Wendy:
1. If YOU disagree with me then I MUST be wrong! LOL! I mean, you know everything right.
2. I do not care one iota what you think.
3. I have no tolerance for people who just argue for the hell of it without actually READING the other sides posts and UNDERSTANDING them. It's called comprehension and thinking for yourself. Too much Oprah and Dr Phil robs alot of people of this basic tool. Case in point...this open forum.
4. It's impossible to debate if you are male on this forum because the women seem to always think they are right.
5. Thanks for proving right what I have people telling me about this open forum. It's really gone downhill and I am sure you are a big reason why.
 
Yes, Trevor, the open forum has gone downhill but you keep coming back complaining about it. Why is that?

I remember when you begged SNM to please ban you from the forum as if you didn't have the free will to stop reading and posting on your own.

You recently called one poster a bitch and also called the rest of the forum members a bunch of cackling hens or something like that.

Is it really impossible to debate if you are male on this forum? I haven't seen any problems with Wayne. I don't know of any other regular male posters.

Why is it if people disagree with you that they are just arguing for the hell of it, but when you disagree it's comprehension and thinking for yourself?

Erica
 
Trevor--

Well, no. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean you're wrong. It just means I disagree with you. I felt strongly enough about it to post my feeling. That's all.
If you really don't care one iota about what I think, you probably wouldn't have bothered to respond to my post. That's fine if you don't care, but I decided that if I had overheard this conversation in the real world, I would have responded to your comments by saying that you were being rude. So I decided to do so here. You were rude. You said "you people" are thick, you referred to someone else's response as "crap", and you were sarcastic with another poster.
I'm not sure if you are referring to me in your third point (maybe I'm too thick--and I'm joking here, and trying to lighten this a little), but I certainly don't argue just for the hell of it. I did read your posts, and I think I understand your side of it. But I still disagree. Again, that doesnt' mean I think I'm the only one with an opinion or that you are wrong BECAUSE I disagree with you. It's just that my opinion is different than yours.
By the way, I can't stand Oprah or Doctor Phil.
Honestly I don't think the lack of ability to debate on this forum has to do with your gender. Women are debating this subject right here in this very thread--they are disagreeing with each other, not just with you. Maybe everyone here does think they are right, but I don't really think that has to do with the fact that they are women. Don't you think you are right?

Since I rarely post on this forum anymore, I doubt that I personally am a big reason why it has gone downhill. I actually agree that it is not what it used to be. I don't like the fact that there is an idea here that Cathe can do no wrong, and I also feel that there is a competitive edge to many of the threads which I find unappealing. So I spend alot of my on-line time at other forums. This is only to say that I can't take responsibility for the downhill slide you are referring to.
 
Erica,
I guess you are right. I should just confine myself to Cathe's area and leave the open forum to you all.
I keep coming back hoping it will improve but.....
People can disagree all they want with me but back it up with something like I try to do. I mean, I ask questions that aren't answered first off. Go back and look yourself. A-Jock makes a snide comment when I was trying to explain myself to Gayle. The thing is I guess I argue too vehemently for this forum. Go back to every post in here and tell me where I did something wrong ok? Everyone saw the word "selfish" thrown out there by me and just went nuts. But if you READ what I said, it's all true. And I never chopped anyone until you all starting coming after me. And I also stated that I felt people can do whatever they want with the child thing. So you tell me ok?
I originally asked SNM to ban me because of hate email. Bet you didn't know that did you? Of course you didn't.
I called Kathryn what I did because basically she's pretty bitchy to alot of people in here and I thought she needed to know it. Alot of people think that but won't say it.
Wayne? Get real will you? He basically has been agreeable with everyone in here and if you'll look back you will see that Kathryn did chop him in half last week over a post he made of some info from another site. That was uncalled for and I am sure he didn't like that at all. I'd consider that "trouble", as you put it.
So once again I have backed everything up and answered all of the questions. I don't get that same courtesy in here. Go back and look it up if you wanna waste some time.
I am done with this. And also I thought that somewhere in the ever-evolving "rules" of this forum, we were supposed to stick to FITNESS related stuff anyway. Seems that's only the case in certain instances huh? Everyone must be in perfect shape 'cause I ain't seeing many questions or serious fitness discussion.
Good night...
 
Funny I decided to read this to see how heated it got and heated it got. Alas, no suprise...

Noone is going to change anyones mind about having kids on this forum after all its a FITNESS forum for heavens sake. I have Strong feelings on this to me they are very personal (re what is REALLY important) and I guess nothing I care to share on a fitness web site.

Interestingly enough I found myself siding with Trevor (which I DIDNT do on the football thread - Pats fan here) - ha!

Hmm I think this is post#56.. let's see if it is dying down !

Have a good nite all
 
Looks like you got your wish, Mogambo ... :) The article certainly has created a lot of discussion.

When I met my husband, he didn't want children. Not because of any act of selfishness or because he couldn't tolerate children misbehaving in public, but because of the abuse he received at the hands of his alcoholic mother. He was honestly terrified he might somehow behave this way towards a child of his. I was ambivalent about children when he and I got married. I was 31, by the way. Nik was sort of an "oops!" I was 33 when I delivered her, and yes my life did change forever. For the better.

She was born four weeks early and had some premature baby problems, but nothing that was long-lasting or fatal, thank God. She was also a very highly sensitve and emotional child. Had David and I not been her parents, we might have seen the signs of her Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder much earlier, but we weren't looking at her as nurses (my husband is also an RN). We were looking at her as parents. She was finally diagnosed after the events of September 11, after a couple of mis-diagnoses. She has been on Paxil for over two years, and is doing well. She gets nearly straight A's in school, and is turning out to be very musically talented.

Has it all been the joy and bliss of motherhood? Heavens no! She's a pain in the rear end, having turned 13 in December, and not a day goes by I don't have psychotic fears that she'll run away to meet some pedophile posing as a 14 year old boy on the Internet. I'm not trying to make light of anything here. I'm simply trying to say that raising a child is work. Very hard work. Emotionally, physically, mentally, and spiritually. Those who choose not to do this - for whatever reason - are free to make that choice, just as I was free to give birth to my daughter. I respect their choice, and I would hope they respect mine as well. Nik has never been allowed to run amok in public. I teach her more respect than that. She has never wailed in a theater or a restaurant, causing other patrons discomfort. I simply walked out of public places with her when she carried on (as all toddlers will from time to time), until she calmed down.

Not a day goes by I don't thank God for her. She is the single greatest joy of my life. My husband made the choice not to have any more after her. He got a vasectomy when she was two months old. Do I resent his decision? Yes and no. As Nik gets older, I resent it less. He now regrets it, but as with all of us, we must live with the consequences of our choices. Nik keeps me young, and she's the reason I get up in the mornings. I have never regretted my decision to have her. People who choose not to have children should not regret theirs either. We do have the gift of free will, after all. But with gifts also come responsibilities.

We have a responsibility to respect other's decisions, and their viewpoints as well. This is a very interesting thread, and I'm enjoying reading the varied responses!

Carol
:)
 
Procreation is certainly natures design but we sensient beings have options and I think being childfree by choice is incredibly smart if you don't want kids! And I think it's perfectly normal to not want kids. I adore my progeny but I think young would-be mothers could use a real lesson on what it means to become a parent. It's hard and sometimes thankless and painful. I know I was ill-prepared and I come from a huge family. I don't regret my choice but I wish I had known that it's not all sunshine and lollipops, that bonding can be work and newborns can be so exhausting that they can make you angry and it's all quite normal and difficult and it doesn't come naturally at all. It is learned behavior. I won't even get started on teenagers!

Some people are completely ill-suited to the task of parenthood. I don't think having lousy parents automatically dooms the progeny. Things like poverty make a hard task harder but lousy parents come from all socio-economic groups and some individuals overcome lousy parents. Some really great parents have lousy children as well. We planned to have two but I should have gotten my tubal sooner. :) Since we had two girls and number 3 was a boy child, it worked out fine but my husband was not thrilled about a third child and I was none to happy at first. I was in school, studying exercise physiology and nutrtion and loving it and I knew tht would have to be shelved because I suck at multi-tasking. I did what was expected of me but I would be a different person if I had not gotten pregnant, darn fertile mother passing on her fertile genes! :) But I quickly came to terms with it and he is a joy to me.

My husband's an only child and I one of thirteen and I both admire my mother and think she's crazy. In a good way. I could never do what she did! My son is starting first grade next year and I want to kick start my dreams of higher education but I am 41 years old and all I have ever known is motherhood. And it scares me! I want to study nursing and back up my husband who's been an awesome provider but wants to retire comfortably on two incomes someday. I want to make a difference in the world and use my intelligence. Sometimes it seems like the longer I have done this, the less of me there has been. I am so and so's mother. I want more than this. I so admire working parents and I admire childless by choice non-parents too. Being a parent has consumed me and it's only recently that I have come to realize how important it is to be more. I was brain-washed by my conseravtive parents that this is the way you raise kids. Period. My joy in them far outweighs any sacrifices I made but I think as a mother, I will definitely encorage my children to do what they feel is right and give them a good education regarding the reality of parenthood and their choices. I would like to see a world in which all women have reproductive choices and the ability to bring a certain quality of life to the progeny they bear.

By the way, I believe the statistic is we make up 5% of the population and consume 30% of the resources.




Bobbi "Chick's rule!" http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif
 
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