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trevor
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You realize Robyn, that you are siding with the devil incarnate. 
And a Steelers fan to boot. LOL!
Trevor
And a Steelers fan to boot. LOL!
Trevor
Increasing numbers of child-free by choice people
- Thread starter mogambo
- Start date
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trevor
Guest
Loved your post Bobbi.
I wanted to add something though. Certainly I understand your desire to do something outside the bounds of motherhood. But please know that long after you are gone you will still be impacting this world, however small, through the children you have left behind. And knowing you, it will be in a definitely positive way because I am sure your children are wonderful and will do good hings with their lives.
See, to me that's what makes the difference. You are actually giving back to society, despite what may have been said on this thread, either directly or inferred, by having kids in a loving family.
Trevor
I wanted to add something though. Certainly I understand your desire to do something outside the bounds of motherhood. But please know that long after you are gone you will still be impacting this world, however small, through the children you have left behind. And knowing you, it will be in a definitely positive way because I am sure your children are wonderful and will do good hings with their lives.
See, to me that's what makes the difference. You are actually giving back to society, despite what may have been said on this thread, either directly or inferred, by having kids in a loving family.
Trevor
Bobbi,
First off, you are already making a great positive impact on the world.
Second, you should have no fears about pursuing your higher education dreams. I work at a college and have had the opportunity to see many "non-traditional college age" students successfully get degrees. Lots of non-trads were/are career stay-at-home moms and they bring a terrific dynamic to the classroom. In my experience teaching, they were usually the most determined and prepared, and often contributed the most and asked the most questions. You should definitely do it if that's what you want. With that inquisitive mind of yours, you'd do great.
First off, you are already making a great positive impact on the world.
Second, you should have no fears about pursuing your higher education dreams. I work at a college and have had the opportunity to see many "non-traditional college age" students successfully get degrees. Lots of non-trads were/are career stay-at-home moms and they bring a terrific dynamic to the classroom. In my experience teaching, they were usually the most determined and prepared, and often contributed the most and asked the most questions. You should definitely do it if that's what you want. With that inquisitive mind of yours, you'd do great.
Bobbi: Go ahead and throw the feminist brick bats at me, but I already think you have accomplished a lot by being so and so's mother. And I bet your children and grandchildren will, too. And if raising children does not require all of your resources, from your will, to your empathy and to, yes, this too, your intellect, than I've been fooled for 8 years.
I'm sorry you feel that you haven't had an impact on the world or changed it for the better by being a mother, but I know you have and your children know it, too.
And yes, I will proudly say, loudly, too, that world needs more children, not less. But I like the human race. Sometimes I get the message that a lot of people don't.
I'm sorry you feel that you haven't had an impact on the world or changed it for the better by being a mother, but I know you have and your children know it, too.
And yes, I will proudly say, loudly, too, that world needs more children, not less. But I like the human race. Sometimes I get the message that a lot of people don't.
Hello to all,
I just have a few comments since I have been reading this forum all morning when I should be working
I am a 27 yr old single mother to a 6 yr old daughter. I never wanted children (but things happen) and after having my daughter; I still don't want any more children. All of my family keeps telling me 'oh when you get married, you are going to have to have a baby for your husband, etc etc' but I know I will blessed with a man who will understand that I don't want any more children.
I don't think wanting to have children is being selfish. Every woman was not meant to be a mother. I know some women who have kids and it's like that's all they did, have them. They are not attentive, loving or caring towards their children and it's the children who end up losing when it comes to this.
Thanks
I just have a few comments since I have been reading this forum all morning when I should be working
I am a 27 yr old single mother to a 6 yr old daughter. I never wanted children (but things happen) and after having my daughter; I still don't want any more children. All of my family keeps telling me 'oh when you get married, you are going to have to have a baby for your husband, etc etc' but I know I will blessed with a man who will understand that I don't want any more children.
I don't think wanting to have children is being selfish. Every woman was not meant to be a mother. I know some women who have kids and it's like that's all they did, have them. They are not attentive, loving or caring towards their children and it's the children who end up losing when it comes to this.
Thanks
I worked in a state-funded day care center for 2 years. Like Aquajock, I have seen numerous children that are abused and neglegted and should never have been born because their parents did not want them. It was the absolute worst job I ever had--pouring every ounce of my love and understanding into these kids only to come to work the next day and find out one of them was sexually molested last night, or beaten, or...
I am scared to have my own kids and send them into the world with all the children that are out there that have had no guidance or discipline and have probably been abused in some way (and are now angry and destructive).
I also coached gymnastics for 6 years and met some of the best parents and children out there. I know there are good things about raising children, and I love kids, but I am just not willing to take the chance with my own.
I am scared to have my own kids and send them into the world with all the children that are out there that have had no guidance or discipline and have probably been abused in some way (and are now angry and destructive).
I also coached gymnastics for 6 years and met some of the best parents and children out there. I know there are good things about raising children, and I love kids, but I am just not willing to take the chance with my own.
I am scared to have my own kids and send them into the world
with all the children that are out there that have had no
guidance or discipline and have probably been abused in some
way (and are now angry and destructive).
I completly agree with you . . . I look at everything that is going in this world- AIDS, killing, sex offenders, etc and I have to pray every day and night that my daughter is kept safe and nothing happens to her. That is a major reason that I don't want any more children.
with all the children that are out there that have had no
guidance or discipline and have probably been abused in some
way (and are now angry and destructive).
I completly agree with you . . . I look at everything that is going in this world- AIDS, killing, sex offenders, etc and I have to pray every day and night that my daughter is kept safe and nothing happens to her. That is a major reason that I don't want any more children.
Bobbi
Cathlete
Oh, Buttercup, I am not throwing feminist brick bats at anyone. And for the record, my children are great, very well-grounded, well-rounded, compassionate and smart! I have long considered my time the most precious resource I have to give them but they will move on and I will need to have more than having been their mother. My son is six and I am thinking deeply about how to bring about my plans and to balance them out against his needs. I also know they need you as much as teenagers as when they are small. I think my point, is that I have defined myself as a mother first. At times, I feel isolated and lonely. My world is very narrow although it has expanded somewhat due to the fact that I have a child, in high school, a child in middle school and a child in kindergarten! I would never chose to be anything but a stay at home mother, particularly when my children were small but I do want more and I need to take action now. Do I think this is the most important thing I have ever done? Yes! Do I think I am raising great kids? Yes! Did you read the Onion article? I was LMAO because it was so true! I think the world needs stay at home mother's, working mothers and non-mothers but each of us needs to be more than any one of those things. We need to quit judging one another and to start striving to be the best humans we can be because we can do a hell of a lot better for all humanity.
I embrace the sacred and the profane. Life is both.
I would never chose to be anything but a stay at home mother, particularly when my children were small but I do want more and I need to take action now. Do I think this is the most important thing I have ever done? Yes! Do I think I am raising great kids? Yes! Did you read the Onion article? I was LMAO because it was so true! I think the world needs stay at home mother's, working mothers and non-mothers but each of us needs to be more than any one of those things. We need to quit judging one another and to start striving to be the best humans we can be because we can do a hell of a lot better for all humanity. I embrace the sacred and the profane. Life is both.
momto2bratz
Cathlete
Hi,
Everyone has a choice to decide whether they want to be a parent or not. I chose to be a parent. I love my kids and wouldn't trade them in for the world!! The DH maybe, but the kids no..lol (just kidding). I have a life besides my kids. I have my Cathe time, friends time, DH time and shopping time(compolsive). Your life is not over when you bear kids. I too always controlled my kids in public. I can't stand parents that can't control their kids in public. Drives me nuts!! I am pro choice 100%. I respect everyones decision. I agree that some people are not cut out for parenthood. My mom and I run a daycare and believe me I see that everyday. I feel really sorry for some of these kids. They didn't choose to be here. My sister on the other hand has decided to not have children(thank god..LOL), but she is the best aunt to my kids. She is just one of those people that just wants to get married and not be bothered with the extra resposibilty. She loves her career and would like to travel. How is that selfish?? This is how she would like to spend her life. Does that make her a bad person?? No it does not. Do I have less respect for her?? No I do not. Kids are a real big responsibilty and it is a personal choice.
Everyone has a choice to decide whether they want to be a parent or not. I chose to be a parent. I love my kids and wouldn't trade them in for the world!! The DH maybe, but the kids no..lol (just kidding). I have a life besides my kids. I have my Cathe time, friends time, DH time and shopping time(compolsive). Your life is not over when you bear kids. I too always controlled my kids in public. I can't stand parents that can't control their kids in public. Drives me nuts!! I am pro choice 100%. I respect everyones decision. I agree that some people are not cut out for parenthood. My mom and I run a daycare and believe me I see that everyday. I feel really sorry for some of these kids. They didn't choose to be here. My sister on the other hand has decided to not have children(thank god..LOL), but she is the best aunt to my kids. She is just one of those people that just wants to get married and not be bothered with the extra resposibilty. She loves her career and would like to travel. How is that selfish?? This is how she would like to spend her life. Does that make her a bad person?? No it does not. Do I have less respect for her?? No I do not. Kids are a real big responsibilty and it is a personal choice.
Hey, I'm all for doing a lot better for all humanity. But it usually does have to start at home. There are a couple of disturbing things I see in this thread (and I am not singling you out or saying it applies to you, Bobbi) starting with the general misanthropy. I can't look at any child with lousy parents or what ever and say they should not have been born. I think that if you are dissatisfied with your life you'd probably be dissatisfied with what ever your life is, kids or no kids. I think ordinary, boring (eyes of the beholder here, though) lives are well worth living. If boringness or ordinariness were the criteria for people living their lives than the only people living would be the Julia Roberts and Brad Pitts of the world and only up until they ceased to be glamorous. Everyone says not to judge others yet they are quick to judge whether someone should be a parent or not and whether a child with bad parents should have been born at all. Many happy, productive, normal as well as glamorous people have had awful upbringings (and before anyone says it, the reverse is true, too). Anyway, those are the things that pop out to me over the course of this thread, but I'd have to say the misanthropy is the most disheartening.
This forum has been so interesting lately with discussions on the three biggest passions in my life: motherhood, religion and fitness!
Bobbi, the more I read your posts, the more I like you. I also think you are very wise. As a SAHM of three, I understand your feelings of confinement, boredom and what sounds to me like guilt. Would it work for you and your family to start looking into part-time, flexible employment, maybe in the fitness industry?
I agree with other posters that the ramifications of lovingly and thoughtfully raising children are endless. It's hard to keep that in mind sometimes, though, when doing menial household chores or playing "Candyland" for the gazillionth time!
I respect people who have thoughtfully decided to remain child-free and understand their frustration at having this decision thrown into their faces.
From a biological perspective, I believe that the ROOT of every single thing we do is based on reproduction/survival. It's the reason people wear lipstick, high heels, get breast implants, want flat abs, see particular (sexual) beauty in people of reproductive age... I could go on and on. Even if you consciously decide not to have additional kids or any kids at all, even if you're gay, I believe the root of why you do most of what you do is for reproductive/survival reasons. This applies to plants and animals and is crucial to the survival of the species. Maybe this strong instinct (not sure if that's the right word) explains why some people have trouble understanding those who decide to be child-free. The ability to remain child-free by choice is a very recent phenomenon in the history of humankind.
And thanks, Mogambo, for posting that "Onion" article. What a hoot!:7
Bobbi, the more I read your posts, the more I like you. I also think you are very wise. As a SAHM of three, I understand your feelings of confinement, boredom and what sounds to me like guilt. Would it work for you and your family to start looking into part-time, flexible employment, maybe in the fitness industry?
I agree with other posters that the ramifications of lovingly and thoughtfully raising children are endless. It's hard to keep that in mind sometimes, though, when doing menial household chores or playing "Candyland" for the gazillionth time!
I respect people who have thoughtfully decided to remain child-free and understand their frustration at having this decision thrown into their faces.
From a biological perspective, I believe that the ROOT of every single thing we do is based on reproduction/survival. It's the reason people wear lipstick, high heels, get breast implants, want flat abs, see particular (sexual) beauty in people of reproductive age... I could go on and on. Even if you consciously decide not to have additional kids or any kids at all, even if you're gay, I believe the root of why you do most of what you do is for reproductive/survival reasons. This applies to plants and animals and is crucial to the survival of the species. Maybe this strong instinct (not sure if that's the right word) explains why some people have trouble understanding those who decide to be child-free. The ability to remain child-free by choice is a very recent phenomenon in the history of humankind.
And thanks, Mogambo, for posting that "Onion" article. What a hoot!:7
Because I enjoy a good debate, I'll chime in here. I am 42 and child-free by choice. I am happily married and have been for nearly 14 years, financially stable, educated, and as emotionally secure as the next woman. However, I have never pictured myself as a mother.
In the early days, I used to hear over and over again how I'd change my mind when I got older--well, I didn't. I have never had any attraction to babies at all, and don't enjoy interacting with toddlers. I do enjoy young people and work with them on a daily basis in my career as a physical therapist.
What I find especially repugnant is the parents out there who expect everyone to make allowances and special arrangements for them just because they reproduced. While I may find their kids' antics and acting out annoying, it's nothing compared to what I feel about the irresponsible parent.
No parent should expect special priviledges--having kids is about sacrifice. If you aren't willing to totally alter your life until your child is at least 18 years old, then don't become a parent. I find it ironic that I am called selfish because I know myself well enough to realize I wouldn't be a good mother, yet some parents are so selfish that they insist on having kids as a vehicle to attract attention to themselves, then expect the rest of society to take on the responsibility of raising them.
Maribeth
In the early days, I used to hear over and over again how I'd change my mind when I got older--well, I didn't. I have never had any attraction to babies at all, and don't enjoy interacting with toddlers. I do enjoy young people and work with them on a daily basis in my career as a physical therapist.
What I find especially repugnant is the parents out there who expect everyone to make allowances and special arrangements for them just because they reproduced. While I may find their kids' antics and acting out annoying, it's nothing compared to what I feel about the irresponsible parent.
No parent should expect special priviledges--having kids is about sacrifice. If you aren't willing to totally alter your life until your child is at least 18 years old, then don't become a parent. I find it ironic that I am called selfish because I know myself well enough to realize I wouldn't be a good mother, yet some parents are so selfish that they insist on having kids as a vehicle to attract attention to themselves, then expect the rest of society to take on the responsibility of raising them.
Maribeth
Maribeth: Sorry to hear you find no value in people raising the next generation. Thankfully, most of society recognizes that there is value in a next generation that is why breaks are given to those who are doing it. And as annoying as little kids are, I can think of 10 adults for every annoying kid who do just as annoying things too. And the weird thing is, I somehow expected the adults to behave like adults.
And as far as I'm concerned my 3 future taxpayers will more than pay back any debt you feel you are owed for all the "privileges" we have gotten. They will probably pay more than our generation given what Greenspan had to say about the Boomers and Social Security. Of course, the next time a future payer of your SS checks is acting up you can take pleasure in the knowledge that he/she will pay and pay and pay for it.
And as far as I'm concerned my 3 future taxpayers will more than pay back any debt you feel you are owed for all the "privileges" we have gotten. They will probably pay more than our generation given what Greenspan had to say about the Boomers and Social Security. Of course, the next time a future payer of your SS checks is acting up you can take pleasure in the knowledge that he/she will pay and pay and pay for it.
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trevor
Guest
I tried to make the case somewhere in this.....
hideous monster of a post that you can make the argument that people on either side of this issue could be construed as being selfish depending on the viewpoint of the arguer.
I happen to be a parent who has no problem accepting tax breaks or whatever, for being a parent. I stated this previously. And also as I stated, I feel this way because I feel like parents are more responsible for the future because they are raising the future. Enough said on that.
However, one thing that really jumps out at me is the fact that most of the posts are from the viewpoint of "I" and "me". I think if we as Americans, thought less of "me" and more about "us", we'd be better off as a country. And same goes for all of us as members of the world society. Alot of our problems today stem from the "me first", "I shouldn't have to do this", "I am not responsible for this", "I want it now", attitudes that prevail in this society. There are plenty of special interest groups already who whine about how unfair they are treated, yet when it gets to the core of the matter, they still want all of the benefits that come from the exact things they complain about.
I'll say it again just as an example of something to think about.....there are 18 yr old kids in Iraq right now fighting for all of us. And I am sure at some point at least one of them acted up in a supermarket or movie theater when they were little and pissed off some people who had chosen a life without children, or who even despised kids. And perhaps pissed off everyone in range of them for that matter. So you missed a few lines in a movie? Or had a little kid spill something on you? Or had your view blocked for a second? Or whatever.....doesn't matter. That kind of thing is really small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. Isn't it? Because that kid is now fighting for your ass somewhere. And he was helped to that point in life by parents who got a little tax break from the government. I am not sure if I am being clear but I hope some of you will understand where I am coming from with this. Again, it's just an example.
Be childless if you want. That's cool. And alot of you won't and don't agree with me. That's cool too. But don't get pissed at parents who may get a few "breaks" for raising kids who one day may be working to benefit, or even save, your rear end.
That is my viewpoint. Perhaps I stated it more clearly. If you're still hot at me for having this opinion, that's really not my problem to be honest. LOL! Or rude even. However you want to look at it.
Trevor
hideous monster of a post that you can make the argument that people on either side of this issue could be construed as being selfish depending on the viewpoint of the arguer.
I happen to be a parent who has no problem accepting tax breaks or whatever, for being a parent. I stated this previously. And also as I stated, I feel this way because I feel like parents are more responsible for the future because they are raising the future. Enough said on that.
However, one thing that really jumps out at me is the fact that most of the posts are from the viewpoint of "I" and "me". I think if we as Americans, thought less of "me" and more about "us", we'd be better off as a country. And same goes for all of us as members of the world society. Alot of our problems today stem from the "me first", "I shouldn't have to do this", "I am not responsible for this", "I want it now", attitudes that prevail in this society. There are plenty of special interest groups already who whine about how unfair they are treated, yet when it gets to the core of the matter, they still want all of the benefits that come from the exact things they complain about.
I'll say it again just as an example of something to think about.....there are 18 yr old kids in Iraq right now fighting for all of us. And I am sure at some point at least one of them acted up in a supermarket or movie theater when they were little and pissed off some people who had chosen a life without children, or who even despised kids. And perhaps pissed off everyone in range of them for that matter. So you missed a few lines in a movie? Or had a little kid spill something on you? Or had your view blocked for a second? Or whatever.....doesn't matter. That kind of thing is really small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. Isn't it? Because that kid is now fighting for your ass somewhere. And he was helped to that point in life by parents who got a little tax break from the government. I am not sure if I am being clear but I hope some of you will understand where I am coming from with this. Again, it's just an example.
Be childless if you want. That's cool. And alot of you won't and don't agree with me. That's cool too. But don't get pissed at parents who may get a few "breaks" for raising kids who one day may be working to benefit, or even save, your rear end.
That is my viewpoint. Perhaps I stated it more clearly. If you're still hot at me for having this opinion, that's really not my problem to be honest. LOL! Or rude even. However you want to look at it.
Trevor
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trevor
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Wendy......
it doesn't matter if we agree or not. I said some things yesterday that I am sorry for saying. So I want to apologize to you. I think you know I do care what you and everyone else here has to say. I got a little....ummm, alot defensive yesterday. I still think I had a right to be though. But hey, you know how guys can be.....LOL!!
Trevor
it doesn't matter if we agree or not. I said some things yesterday that I am sorry for saying. So I want to apologize to you. I think you know I do care what you and everyone else here has to say. I got a little....ummm, alot defensive yesterday. I still think I had a right to be though. But hey, you know how guys can be.....LOL!!
Trevor
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trevor
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Robyn...
you are REALLY tempting fate now!! LOL!!
Trevor
you are REALLY tempting fate now!! LOL!!
Trevor
RE: Wendy......
Ahhh... that's feels so much better! Thanks for the apology, Trevor. I responded to your post from yesterday, too (#54), and just wanted to reiterate that I do think you have a right to your opinion, as does everyone. Of course, I find that is easy to say when one agrees with the other opinion, but a little harder to accept when one strongly disagrees, isn't it?! ;-)
Anyway, thanks again for the apology, and I'm honestly sorry that you felt that you were being attacked.
Ahhh... that's feels so much better! Thanks for the apology, Trevor. I responded to your post from yesterday, too (#54), and just wanted to reiterate that I do think you have a right to your opinion, as does everyone. Of course, I find that is easy to say when one agrees with the other opinion, but a little harder to accept when one strongly disagrees, isn't it?! ;-)
Anyway, thanks again for the apology, and I'm honestly sorry that you felt that you were being attacked.