Increasing numbers of child-free by choice people

Whenever I hear people say "I don't want kids" or "I don't like kids" I cannot really relate.

First of all, kids don't stay kids for very long. They are the future doctors, teachers, the future adults.

So, technically, if today's grown-ups don't produce kids, they are endangering Social Security, Medicare, the care of the elders etc.

I want MY genes to keep going and I am for kids - a kid from Africa should be helped but he doesn't have my genes.

Having no kids in this country doesn't help the earth. It actually makes it worse because the couples without kids are the biggest poluters out there with their big cars, big houses, frequent flying etc. Their over consumption of goods/services cause more harm than a child.

I bet today's elders are glad that they reproduced because we (their kids) are helping them out now.
 
Okay, I'll jump in here (without reading that article, so maybe I shouldn't). I am one of those people who has never really wanted kids. I've also never partcularly wanted to marry. I did marry once for a brief time, but I am definitely not cut out for it. I can admit that, at least part of it, is selfishness on my part. On at least one ocassion I was made to feel (or tried to made feel) less than womanly because I didn't want kids--however, that being said, I don't hold that against anyone with kids--just the person who tried to make me feel that way. I thorough enjoy being around my friends with families, but also thoroughly enjoy going home to my quiet house. :)
 
Aquajock and Mogambo, thank you so much for what you have said. I have been struggling with the decision not to have children for several years now. My husband and I often have serious discussions about this choice and we're both quite concerned about how his family and society will react. Reading some of the posts up here has really highlighted my fears, especially being called selfish and a societal free-loader. I'm glad that you were both able to respond with well-thought-out statements because people should understand that the choice isn't about selfishness, a free ride or not investing in the future. Just like the decision to have children should be, it is very carefully weighed and considered.
Thank you for reminding me that I'm not the only person on the planet who feels this way.
 
Hi everyone! I normally post on another thread on the board so *Hello, my name is Elizabeth!*. DH and I are child-free by choice. I take umbarge that this decision is labeled as selfish. I see it as having the confidence to know ourselves and to choose what is right for us and our lives together, regardless of what society has implied we should do. NO ONE has the right to tell me I'm selfish! And if someone wants to believes that, well I can't change that belief nor do I want to take the time to do so- I have nothing to defend and I have a life to live...

We, too have been told we would have been great parents and we love kids- we have worked with them for over 15 years as martial arts school owners. We've seen people who had bad parenting skills to those who are inspiring. I had one parent tell me his 5 yo was misbehaving for his mom (she didn't set rules) and that she wanted karate to *change* him. Well this kid was a great kid in my class (I'm strict- there are rules and I expect them to be followed- at the same time I'm kind and caring, helping my students to become confident and responsible people). I told this parent: *I can tell you right now- that if your wife doesn't expect him to tow the line at home, my training with him won't *cure* this behavior*... They never came back.

It's a personal choice as all the other posters have said. I believe we need to respect each other, our separate lives and life choices. BTW, there were some posts that just blew me away they were so eloquent and to the point. Good thread- thought-provoking... Have a great day everyone! NOW I gotta go get my cat from the vets...:)

Elizabeth
 
katcheran - you make some awful big blunt stereotypical statements about families that opt not to have children. I think the same is true of any stereotype - it may be true for some but definitely not all. Also - there is NO danger of running out of children. Having children just so you have someone to take care of you is purely selfish. We are multiplying at an alarming rate. Some families have 4, 5, 6, 7 children....and more. And the waste comment? If one is using disposable diapers, that's an extreme amount of waste all on it's own. And if cloth diapers are used, you still waste a ton of water in cleaning them. I don't think that's a valid argument at all.

Trevor - I totally disagree. I firmly believe that the desire to produce children is purely selfish. The reason being is that if you were not being selfish and you only wanted to better the life of a child - you would adopt (not considering of course the price of adoption vs. a pregnancy). There are tons of children out there that need loving, good homes, but yet many of us desire badly to produce children that will carry our genes and our images. My husband and I fall into that category - we are trying to conceive and I feel it is purely selfish. We want a child we created together. If we are unable, we probably will adopt. I'm soooo happy that there are folks out there that choose not to bear children - it helps just a tiny bit with the population problems we face.

One of the biggest fears I have is what will happen when our planet is too overpopulated and polluted to survive any longer. What kind of life will our children's children (and so on) have? Packed into little tiny apartments - no one will have a home, there won't be any room - and forget about having a ranch or land or any of that. Maybe more people will live on boats. ahhh, but I'm rambling now.

just my thoughts. Good post and good discussion.
 
Many of today's kids are also tomorrow's losers of all sorts. Future suicides. Future drug addicts, etc. And lots of ordinary unremarkable people (like me) who are not on the "level" of doctors and lawyers and such, just competing for crappy wage-slave jobs in our overpopulated economy.

And childless people are not all huge house/huge car types. Some are poor, some are frugal, some are losers, some are doctors, etc. I don't think you can generalize this way.

And no one is under any obligation to help their "elders". If that were the case, not so many of them would be in need of government help.
 
To each his own. Having children or not is everyone's personal choice. The author of that article has way too much time on his hands (I couldn't be bnothered to finish it). Incendiary crapola to pit people against each other. I have one grown son. I work in a high school where lots of the teachers don't have kids. We are all too busy working with the kids who are here (whether anyone thinks it's right or not) to philosophize about our personal choices, much less criticize each other. Live and let live.
--Ann
 
Mogambo, you just totally rock my world.

Today's children can be tomorrow's rapists, genius medical researchers, gambling fiends, Nobel laureates, Ted Bundys, Mother Theresas, or *god help us* Adam Sandlers, you name it.

It does seem there's a small but vocal faction of people out there that HAVE to imbue their individual lifestyle choices with moral and social superiority.

I'll just quote Clark Gable: "You paddle your canoe, and I'll paddle mine."

A-Jock
 
>It occurs to me that those parents who would point the finger
>at the child-free, especially those who sincerely prefer to
>have child-free areas in the public as well as the private
>domain (read: R-rated movies, maybe?) and call them "selfish"
>are the most internally ambivalent about their child-driven
>lifestyles. Children demand enormous sacrifices in terms of
>material, emotional and time resources, and there are those
>out there who truly resent it that all others aren't hewing to
>those same demands. Suffering needs fellowship, as it were.

Aquajock!! You have SOOOooooo hit the nail on the head with this quote. DH and I have "friends" (DH's friends from high school) who have been RELENTLESS in their pursuit to get us to have kids. These are THE unhappiest people I know. Male-half bitches constantly about wife and kids, female-half bitches constantly about husband and kids. Needless to say, we've distanced ourselves from these people.
 
I agree that the article chose to reflect an extreme view of the child-free by choice. I didn't think you meant any harm, that's why I wanted to ask :) .

I will pose one more question, however }( :

How is choosing to HAVE children an UNselfish act?
 
>Having no kids in this country doesn't help the earth. It
>actually makes it worse because the couples without kids are
>the biggest poluters out there with their big cars, big
>houses, frequent flying etc. Their over consumption of
>goods/services cause more harm than a child.
>

Katerchen - Can you produce some statistics on this statement, PLEASE??!!

Gayle - child-free, with her fuel-efficient mid-sized sedan, small house, and let's not forget her compost bin!!
 
How does wanting to have your own kids being selfish? If it's so selfish, why are you trying to conceive? I'm 37 1/2 weeks pregnant with my second so does that make me very selfish? People want their own kids first because that's the way it works. If they cannot get pregnant, many, many do adopt. They want to experience the pregnancy, giving birth, raising the child from day one, etc...Whereas most kids from other countries are older than 2 months. Yes, I agree some people have kids just to care for them when they get old. Some people have kids just to get them to work to support the parents. Some people just want kids for joy of it. Why do you have pets? I do not regret having my son and being pregnant with another. They fill up my life even more.

I agree with you totally, Mogambo about a lot of children nowdays are future losers. A lot of them I've seen are in gangs, prisons, etc. Also, I do blame parents, too. A lot of parents do not have rules nor discipline them. That's unfair for children who doesn't have parents who care enough about them. I also noticed majority of children who have both parents working are in a lot of trouble. They have no one to look up to but losers they see on television. Most of them do not sit at the table eating dinner as a family anymore. A lot of them are high school dropouts and druggies. I think a lot of kids are big brats. They think we owe them. Owe them what? Another thing is a lot of parents do not make kids do their chores. They just give in to the kids. I think that's a big BS.

My husband works and he doesn't make a whole lot of money but I prefer to stay at home raising kids to make sure they have someone around to make sure they're doing good. I also love being a SAHM even though it can get frustrating and boring. I'm not saying all working mothers are bad. I've seen some SAHM who are lousy.

I think another problem is a lot of people are very materialistic which causes a lot of problems. I'm not talking about the rich. I'm talking about all levels. I don't see the point of having all these technologies. Some of them are useful. Some are a huge waste of money.
Some parents molest their own children. That is very disgusting. They should rot in h*ll. You cannot blame children for their behaviors totally. Bad parents are to blame, too. Bad teachers at school are to blame, too.
 
Mogambo!!!

>Here's an article I hope will create some discussion.

I think you succeeded in creating some discussion. ;-)

BTW - That Onion was HILARIOUS!
 
The people who are bitching and moaning about it are the ones who shouldn't be having kids. Or they just like to bitch for the sake of complaining.
Trevor
 
To each their own.

But I'd like to say one thing. My brother was a high school drop out (got his GED later) suffered from drugs and alcohol addiction and depression, and died at the age of 34 (last September) because he could not overcome his demons. Does this mean that he was a loser and should have never been born and his life was just a waste of space here on this earth??? NO!!! He was meant to be here for a reason and he was a wonderful brother who loved me and who I loved dearly!! I firmly believe everyone who was born on this earth was meant to be here for some reason.
 
It depends on the reason you have them, doesn't it? If you have them for your own emotional well-being and because you think it'll make your life more fulfilling, then that's a little selfish. That's probably the reason most people have kids. If you have them because you want family around you as you grow older, that's selfish too. However, it's also an unselfish thing to do because you basically give up alot of your life and instant gratification to help start and raise another life. And in the end, these children of today are our country's future. In that regard helping to raise the future is also unselfish. It's why I have no problem, again, with getting tax breaks etc. Hell, if everybody decided to not have kids, we'd be in a world of trouble now wouldn't we?
And people who choose not to have kids...that's great. Good for you. It's your choice and is just fine. But don't expect people who have kids to feel bad about getting so-called perks like tax breaks, flex time, etc., etc. And don't expect us to tip-toe around because you don't want to hear a kid playing ball, or because you don't want a child interfering with your movie...or whatever. Society revolves around families, and if you don't want to be a part of it, then that's your choice. You basically have removed yourself from the majority. But just remember it's the families that are making this whole thing go, ok?
Having families is the natural order of things. People are born, people live their lives, people die, and people are replaced by more people who carry on where the others left off.
And lastly, I have found that most people who decide to not have kids do so because they don't want their lifestyle interrupted. I know 4 couples like this. That's an extremely selfish attitude and there is no getting around that. So don't hide behind the old "world is overpopulated" argument, "kids suck up resources" argument, or whatever else.......
If you want to say that both sides of this argument are selfish, then I submit that the people having kids are LESS selfish.
Also I am thinking you may not want to tell the kids fighting in Iraq right now that their parents are selfish for having them.
Trevor
:)
 
Trevor, you find only that which you want to see, and believe, when looking at people who have made lifestyle choices different from your own; you then impute your own judgment on their motives, and that judgment is that old old old shopworn label "selfish".

I think this thread has struck a real nerve with you. Methinks the gentleman doth protest a tad too much . . .

A-Jock
 
Parts of the US may not be as densely populated as parts of the "third-world", but we consume/waste way more resources per capita than anywhere else on the planet. Therefore, the effect of our population is much more devastating to the world's resources than that of poor countries.
--Ann
 
Mogamo, I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but your comment on "future suicides" sort of got to me. I had several friends who commited suicide, and my grandfather also killed himself. I wouldn't say that any of them were losers when I knew them. Some things happened in all of their lives which lead them all to suicide. However, they were caring, funny, smart, engaging, friendly, kind people. Certainly not losers.

Katerchen--wow. Your statements are very much overgeneralizations and stereotypes. My jaw dropped a little when I read what you wrote.


This is a very interesting discussion!
 
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