Fast Food Nation

I don't think that I will see Fast Food Nation. My DH forwarded me the article from BB yesterday and I really could not get past the first few lines of the interview. I switch back and forth between eating meat and not and have always been like that. Now I am not eating meat again. I even bought a Tofurky dinner for Thanksgiving for myself since the rest of my family will be eating the real thing. It seems like my oldest son is headed in my direction, while my youngest loves eating meat. For some reason, for me, I can't separate what I am eating, so I have a hard time eating it.

Lea
 
Thanks pixiesis for your post. You've given me something to think about.


Lea - when is see the word "tofurkey" I think about that Everybody Loves Raymond episode! Very funny!

Susan L.G.
 
Hi Susan,
I'm so glad you found the info interesting. It's interesting to compare humans to carnivores and herbivores, but I don't want to imply that this means that humans are natural herbivores. I don't know the answer to that and I don't really think it matters. Obviously we can survive on lots of diets. But I know from personal experience that a smart (i.e. ETL) vegan diet feels right on many levels (physical, spiritual, and ethical). I'm happy that the veggie lifestyle seems to becoming more mainstream and less stigmatized as extreme and unnatural.
Amy
 
I'm finding that a lot of my friends and acquaintences are alos cuttin down on the amount of meat they eat.

I know that for myself, I've stopped eating lots of meats, but still occasionally eat chicken.

Other than that it's mostly veggies, beans, soups, and dairy for us, which I think is better than most peoples' diets!

Susan L.G.
 
Lea - when is see the word "tofurkey" I think about that
Everybody Loves Raymond episode! Very funny!

Susan L.G.


Susan - Ah yes, I remember that episode. LOL. This is my first year trying it. Hopefully it will taste better than the Raymond episode!!

Lea
 
> It is also kinder to the animals.

Not necessarily. In fact, there are no guideslines as to how to treat animals destined to become organic beef, beyond what foods to feed them and what drugs to not put in their bodies.
 
>I do believe humans were 'meant' to eat meat. We have the
>teeth and musculature for it.

Our teeth are primarily for chewing grains and other fibrous foods. I'm not sure what you mean by having the musculature to eat meat? Our strong jaws are perfect for the chewing needed to eat vegetable matter.

One of our closest 'relatives,' the gorilla, is extremely strong, and, if on a natural diet and not one imposed by humans, is a vegetarian (except for occasional ingestion of insects, though gorillas have been observed removing insects from leaves before eating the leaves).
 
I wanted to say that the argument concerning intestine length is not correct. The types of cells that make up the intestine is what counts in general. Humans have cell types and receptors that favor eating meat.
Humans do not have claws because of our higher intelligence. During evolution we separated ourselves from the need to evolve claws by teaching ourselves to use tools, such as stone tools and sticks.
Meat is a much more concentrated source of energy than plant matter. It contains B12, if I remember. Plant matter does not, or contains trace amounts. Aren't true vegans required to pop a B12 pill, although our bodies do recycle it to some level?
The argument for or against humans being omnivores is much more complex than just picking out some traits and making trite comparisons and arguments. Unfortunately, certain groups want to hit us over the head with their version of a correct lifestyle. They often use incorrect data to try to make us feel bad for not following their plan.
Humans are omnivores based on all unbiased reading I have done on this subject.
real
 
>I'm glad that us humans can adapt to and survive on a variety
>of foods, but I'm even more glad that I can choose the optimal
>diet, which is a balanced vegan diet in my opinion.

An excellent point. Because we are omnivores (for survival purposes, IMO, see above) we can CHOOSE our diets. And why not choose the most humane, healthy and environmentally sound diet possible?
 
Speaking of Tofurkey:

Traditional Tasting Tofurkey

Ingredients (use vegan versions):

5 blocks firm/extra firm organic tofu
2 teaspoon vegan poultry seasoning (or more to taste)
1/4-1/2 cup fresh chopped herbs (I use savory, rosemary, sage and basil - but any herbs will work.)
1 1/2 tablespoon vegetable stock powder (or vegetarian chicken flavor if you can find it)
salt and pepper


Marinade Ingredients (use vegan versions):

1/4 cup balsamic vinegar
1/4 - 1/2 cup red wine
1/4 cup chopped fresh herbs (same as you used in tofu)
1 tablespoon veg stock powder dissolved in a couple tablespoons of hot water
salt and pepper to taste
1 teaspoon of mustard (Dijon or seed works best)
add a sprinkle of hot pepper flakes if you like (I always do)

Marinade instructions:

1. Mix all the ingredients in a small bowl and whisk together (or blend in the blender if you prefer)

2. Taste it.

3. Adjust the spices if you feel the need.


Tofurkey Instructions:

1. Blend tofu in blender or food processor until lumps are gone. You can mash by hand, but I prefer to blend it for a better consistency.

2. Transfer to a large bowl, stir in herbs, poultry seasoning, stock powder and salt and pepper.

3. Line a medium, round bottomed colander with one layer of cheese cloth or a clean dish towel. Put the tofu mixture in colander and fold remaining cheese cloth over the top. Place the colander on a plate (to catch excess water being squeezed out) and put a heavy weight on top. Put in the fridge and press for aprox. 2-3 hours or overnight if possible.

4. After pressing and with the tofu still in the colander, scoop out the center, leaving about an inch of tofu around the edges. Place your stuffing in the cavity. Put the tofu mixture you scooped out over the stuffing and press down firmly.

5. Flip the formed "turkey" on to an oiled cookie sheet, use the excess tofu to form the legs and wings if you want a "turkey" look. Brush the whole turkey with the marinade.

6. Cook at 350° for about 1.5 hours brushing with marinade every 15 min or whenever you remember to.

The tofurkey can cook for as long as you need it to. once, I let mine cook all day, basting it about every half hour or so and it turned out great. I usually put it in the oven as I'm starting the rest of the meal... by the time the potatoes and all the veggies are done, the turkey is ready to go.

Serves: 6 or so

Preparation time: 30 minutes?
 
The tooth argument is not relevant as I have stated already. Humans have evolved using tools and intelligence which means we have no need for things like claws and teeth that true carnivores have.
You are oversimplifying the comparisons.
 
Kathryn-

That recipe looks good. Maybe I will try it next year instead of being lazy and buying the pre-made one.

Lea
 
>The tooth argument is not relevant as I have stated already.
>Humans have evolved using tools and intelligence which means
>we have no need for things like claws and teeth that true
>carnivores have.
>You are oversimplifying the comparisons.

I didn't see your tooth argument. Is it not relavent that true carnivors do not need to cook their meat as humans do? I think the arguement here is that we can thrive on a plant based diet. Whether or not we can survive on meat is the irrelevant point here. It is too easy to get energy (carbs and protien) from a plant based diet. It is also more economical and planet friendly as well. I noticed you didn't touch the arguement about saturated animal fats, or is that not relavant as well.

On the subject of evolution...didn't we evolve to have a conscience as well? I don't see a lot of people out there hunting and killing their own food. Maybe our emotional evolution keeps us from doing those sorts of things.

carolyn
 
>The tooth argument is not relevant as I have stated already.
>Humans have evolved using tools and intelligence which means
>we have no need for things like claws and teeth that true
>carnivores have.
>You are oversimplifying the comparisons.

I didn't see your tooth argument. Is it not relavent that true carnivors do not need to cook their meat as humans do? I think the arguement here is that we can thrive on a plant based diet. Whether or not we can survive on meat is the irrelevant point here. It is too easy to get energy (carbs and protien) from a plant based diet. It is also more economical and planet friendly as well. I noticed you didn't touch the arguement about saturated animal fats, or is that not relavant as well.

On the subject of evolution...didn't we evolve to have a conscience as well? I don't see a lot of people out there hunting and killing their own food. Maybe our emotional evolution keeps us from doing those sorts of things.

carolyn
 
I think we will just have to agree to disagree. Each side has good arguments, but no one is righter than the other.

I guess you can only do what your conscience and your body tells you is right.

Susan L.G.
 
I think we will just have to agree to disagree. Each side has good arguments, but no one is righter than the other.

I guess you can only do what your conscience and your body tells you is right.

Susan L.G.
 
Carolyn
I apologize, I was replying to Kathryn. I am new to the forum and got the replies mixed up.
I can reply to your comments though. I cannot think of a true carnivore with the intelligence to realize that cooked food tastes better than raw food. I think humans cook their food as a matter of taste and maybe safety and I am not sure we would really need to do so if we didn't have access to a heat source.
I disagree on plant sources being easier to get carbs from than meat. I believe meat is a more concentrated source of nutrients.
No I didn't touch the saturated fats argument because I believe in all things in moderation. I suppose it's not relevant to me. I don't totally avoid saturated fats. I just watch the intake of them. Vegetarians may need to start worrying about elevated homocysteine levels. This may be implicated in heart disease.
Seems to me the fact that we have supermarkets keeps many people from having to kill their food.
While I respect your concience statement regarding animals, that also sounds a bit like a PETA argument. In my opinion animals are here for our benefit, whether to serve as pets or worker animals or to be served at the dinner table.
Being omnivores, we as humans get the best of both worlds. Why anyone would want to give up meat or vegetables in favor of one or the other just boggles me.
 
Carolyn
I apologize, I was replying to Kathryn. I am new to the forum and got the replies mixed up.
I can reply to your comments though. I cannot think of a true carnivore with the intelligence to realize that cooked food tastes better than raw food. I think humans cook their food as a matter of taste and maybe safety and I am not sure we would really need to do so if we didn't have access to a heat source.
I disagree on plant sources being easier to get carbs from than meat. I believe meat is a more concentrated source of nutrients.
No I didn't touch the saturated fats argument because I believe in all things in moderation. I suppose it's not relevant to me. I don't totally avoid saturated fats. I just watch the intake of them. Vegetarians may need to start worrying about elevated homocysteine levels. This may be implicated in heart disease.
Seems to me the fact that we have supermarkets keeps many people from having to kill their food.
While I respect your concience statement regarding animals, that also sounds a bit like a PETA argument. In my opinion animals are here for our benefit, whether to serve as pets or worker animals or to be served at the dinner table.
Being omnivores, we as humans get the best of both worlds. Why anyone would want to give up meat or vegetables in favor of one or the other just boggles me.
 
Well, to throw a whole new wrench into this, a lot of scientists believe that we evolved away from the other primates and developed a larger brain, and even language because we learned to hunt. Hunting, especially for a creature without fang or claw, required tools. We needed to develop training methods for our children and others, and strategies to hunt. We needed flexibility and creativity because animals changed, and circumstances changed - we had to learn to think on our feet. And some think that language started as a way to communicate during the hunt. A few simple warnings spoken because hand signals and other ways of communication would not be noticed when all eyes are concentrating on the task at hand.

Now, keep in mind that during most of our past, meat has been a luxury. It's only been in the past 50 or so years that average people can afford meat on a daily basis. Given this, I would say that the problem the world is facing right now is not that we eat meat, but that we eat too much meat and not enough other stuff. I do eat meat, but I limit all my animal products (including dairy and eggs) to once a day at most - often I don't eat any at all. I am a firm believer in all things in moderation.

However, if you come to my house and I know you're vegan, I'm going to cook vegan for you as I also believe that people have a right to believe what they want to believe. If you believe that killing animals is immoral, then that is your choice and I'm going to respect it.
 
Well, to throw a whole new wrench into this, a lot of scientists believe that we evolved away from the other primates and developed a larger brain, and even language because we learned to hunt. Hunting, especially for a creature without fang or claw, required tools. We needed to develop training methods for our children and others, and strategies to hunt. We needed flexibility and creativity because animals changed, and circumstances changed - we had to learn to think on our feet. And some think that language started as a way to communicate during the hunt. A few simple warnings spoken because hand signals and other ways of communication would not be noticed when all eyes are concentrating on the task at hand.

Now, keep in mind that during most of our past, meat has been a luxury. It's only been in the past 50 or so years that average people can afford meat on a daily basis. Given this, I would say that the problem the world is facing right now is not that we eat meat, but that we eat too much meat and not enough other stuff. I do eat meat, but I limit all my animal products (including dairy and eggs) to once a day at most - often I don't eat any at all. I am a firm believer in all things in moderation.

However, if you come to my house and I know you're vegan, I'm going to cook vegan for you as I also believe that people have a right to believe what they want to believe. If you believe that killing animals is immoral, then that is your choice and I'm going to respect it.
 
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