Doing what's best for the kids?

Govtgirl

Govtgirl

Cathlete
Ok, I will probably get flamed mightily for this, but this is really puzzling to me:

I understand divorce when there are no kids and things are just no good. Nobody is hurt.

I understand divorce when there *are* kids, but one person is a rotten awful parent, or they are an addict or truly abusive or something. If you stay the kids are hurt.

I don’t understand divorcing when the other spouse is a great parent but “my needs aren’t being met” or “we’ve grown apart” or whatever. This situation only benefits the adult (chance for a new life, new love etc) and the kids get a raw deal because there is NO benefit to them. They get shuttled back and forth between 2 houses, have to deal with dating, parents meeting or marrying other people, possibly having other kids that make them feel as though they’re being replaced, etc. The kids are the hurt ones here. The adults get their way and they’re the ones who screwed things up.

If both parents get along and there is no abuse or anything like that, is it possible to put aside your desires and do what is truly best for the kids: stay in a home with BOTH parents until they are 18?

Can’t two parents make the deal that they will spend their time being the best full-time parents they can be, and put aside their own selfish desires (yes it’s selfish if you know something you are doing will harm the kids but you do it anyway) til the kids are out?

So many people say “I'd do anything for my kids, I’d swim across the ocean for them, I’d kill to protect them” so why not do this for them?

Again, I am not talking about situations where there is adultery, addiction, abuse. I’m talking about “theres no spark” or “we’ve grown apart” reasons for divorce, where the child's welfare is not an issue.
 
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Govtgirl said:


Can’t two parents make the deal that they will spend their time being the best full-time parents they can be, and put aside their own selfish desires (yes it’s selfish if you know something you are doing will harm the kids but you do it anyway) til the kids are out?

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I guess this is where is gets sticky. I'm not divorced. Happily married actualy with 2 fabulous kids. So maybe my opinion isn't worth squat. I have no intention of flaming anyone by the way and actually I agree with you. I guess where it might get hard is that as a parent if you are not happy then it would show with the kids. I know that excersize might not be the best copmparison here but my kids and husband know if I'm not given my "me" time to workout I'm not very pleasant to be around. Call me selfish for needing that time but I require it to be happy. I guess if someone were in an unhappy marriage it would probably show to husband and to kids and I'm guessing, . . (hard for me since my in laws have been married only to each other for 56 year and my parents only to each other for 40 years) that the kids at the age of 18 or at the age of 6 would hurt no matter how old they were. As a child I don't think you ever think that there were times when your parents did not love each other. Maybe the cost of love and happiness for a mate for life is to much to ask for and sacraficing a limb or a vital organ for you child is not??? Don't know, . . .I know I feel for people who have to go through it and especially for the kids. Well, just my 2 cents worth.
 
You might get flamed, but it won't be from me.

DH is my second husband. I have two kids from my first marriage and, if I knew now what I didn't know then, ex DH would have been my one and only husband. I was quite young though, and not yet so bright.

My daughter is 7 and she's expressed that she wants me and her dad to "never get a divorce because she would hate to have to just visit both of us".

There have been periods where DH and I have gone through rough patches. It always comes back to me adjusting my attitude. It's not all about me, me, me and sometimes I tend to get caught up in that. I truly think that love is an action rather than an feeling. When I take the time to focus on the positive aspects of my marriage, then everything falls in place and I am content, as is the rest of the family.
 
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I really couldn't answer this one either, but my parents stayed together for 30 yearsish. The three kids were all adults, my brother and I were both married and it was still hard when our parents got divorced. Being the only one who lived in town, I got all the weight of it. My mother and I are very close, so she would talk to me about what my Dad was doing (not any details about why they were divorcing). Just things like him coming to the house drunk wanting to work things out, etc. I get my Dad's side, then my Mom's and I spent more nights crying myself to sleep being stuck in the middle! Neither my sister, nor my brother knew about any of this. My brother took it hardest and "didn't understand."

All this being said, since we were pretty young, we heard all the fights through the walls, the accusations back and forth and could feel it and see it in the way they were together (or not together).

So, I don't think staying together "for the kids" is all that great of a solution either. If one party or both is/are unhappy, the kids are going to know it!

Tricia
 
Well, I'll take a stab at this since I'm a child of divorced parents. I know for a fact that my mother and father make each other miserable. My father cheated on my mother repeatedly, they didn't have the same view of parenting (my dad didn't really want to deal with us until we were potty-trained and could speak intelligently), they came from totally different backgrounds. They really and truly should have probably never gotten married, but they fell in love and that's what people do when they fall in love.

Knowing (and seeing) how miserable they made each other, I find it ridiculous that anyone would think that the two of them living together "for the kids" would have produced mentally healthy children or would have been, in ANY way, beneficial to anyone. Here we are, 25 years after they divorced, and they still cannot be in the same room together!!! I can't fathom their having lived in the same home for any amount of time, let alone the idea that they would "tough it out" for 18 years for the kids.

Truthfully, I'm glad they divorced and got on with their lives. It also showed me that I don't have to stay in a miserable marriage if it makes me a worse person for doing so. Divorce happens, kids are resilient; they'll get over it. My sisters and I all did.

MC
 
Govtgirl said:
Ok, I will probably get flamed mightily for this, but this is really puzzling to me:

I understand divorce when there are no kids and things are just no good. Nobody is hurt.

I understand divorce when there *are* kids, but one person is a rotten awful parent, or they are an addict or truly abusive or something. If you stay the kids are hurt.

I don’t understand divorcing when the other spouse is a great parent but “my needs aren’t being met” or “we’ve grown apart” or whatever. This situation only benefits the adult (chance for a new life, new love etc) and the kids get a raw deal because there is NO benefit to them. They get shuttled back and forth between 2 houses, have to deal with dating, parents meeting or marrying other people, possibly having other kids that make them feel as though they’re being replaced, etc. The kids are the hurt ones here. The adults get their way and they’re the ones who screwed things up.

If both parents get along and there is no abuse or anything like that, is it possible to put aside your desires and do what is truly best for the kids: stay in a home with BOTH parents until they are 18?

Can’t two parents make the deal that they will spend their time being the best full-time parents they can be, and put aside their own selfish desires (yes it’s selfish if you know something you are doing will harm the kids but you do it anyway) til the kids are out?

So many people say “I'd do anything for my kids, I’d swim across the ocean for them, I’d kill to protect them” so why not do this for them?

Again, I am not talking about situations where there is adultery, addiction, abuse. I’m talking about “theres no spark” or “we’ve grown apart” reasons for divorce, where the child's welfare is not an issue.
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This assumes that it is in the best interest of the child for the parents to stay married. Is it better for the parents to not speak, fight constantly, slam doors, throw things, etc. just so that they are together for the children? There are many reasons behind "there's no spark" or "we've grown apart." Those are just phrases used for many underlying problems.

I do not think it is healthy or shows a good example for the children of a happy, health home for parents to stay married when they clearly do not like each other anymore. I know from personal experience (both with my parents, their remarriages, and my marriages) that once those feelings of dislike start to creep in, it is next to impossible to just get over them.

A good thing might be to suggest the parents and family go to counseling to get down to the root cause of issues. That might backfire though! I worked with a woman who was married for almost 25 years. Her husband just started acting really strange so they started going to counseling. The COUNSELOR suggested to my co-worker that a divorce would be best! Their three children were grown and out of the house but still took it REALLY hard!

If you are going through anything personally, my thoughts are with you. Marriage is tough and divorce is really difficult!

Carrie
 
I'm married, mostly happily, with 3 children. My dh and I do whatever we can to make sure our marriage works. No, it is not all roses and romance. No, our needs are not always met by each other. Yes, it is work. But, we agree that we chose this marriage and to bring our kids into this world, and we will do what we can to provide a healthy and happy home for them.

My parents have been married 40 plus years, none of them happily, as far as I can remember. They are not well suited and probably should not have married each other. I have no childhood memories of them being loving and happy with each other. There was never physical violence, but a lot of arguing, fighting and tears. If they had divorced, it would have been worse. We were not financially well off, and divorce would have meant trying to support two households instead of one, causing additional stress on my parents.

Despite their unhappy marriage, each of my parents was a good parent. By them staying together, my siblings and I each received the full benefit of full-time good parenting from both mom and dad. My parents sacrificed their personal romantic happiness for the well-being of their children, and as adults all of us kids understand and respect them immensely for this. We had one home, one family, one set of parents, and the emotional security that provides. It wasn't a perfect childhood, but I don't think anyone ever has a perfect childhood.

I do think my parents could have been happier together. At some point each just dug in and quit trying to improve their relationship and their marriage. If a couple is unhappy or unfulfilled in their marriage, but there is no adultery, abuse, substance abuse, child abuse, etc. -- it is possible to have a content marriage, at least. It might not be the romantic ideal, but with effort it can be improved so your children are not exposed to constant tension and fighting.
 
Honestly, I'd rather have my parents divorce when I was a child as opposed to grown. I have a friend who went through this and she agrees. You tend to model your relationships or view of relationships by what you see with you parents and for her she felt like everything she knew was a lie. It totally reshaped her view.

Besides, kids are resilient. I think that it boils down to can the marriage be fixed. If it can, then fix it. If not, then I dont think it benefits the kids to see parents trapped in a loveless marriage 'for their sake,'
 
My father left when I was 5, then died when I was 7. I was Daddy's Little Girl, so I was devastated when he left- completely destroyed. I only saw him one more time before he died. These two events have altered and defined my personality and have caused huge irrepairable harm to me. If he had stayed, he would probably still be alive, I most likely wouldn't have these enormous abandonment issues and my life would have turned out very different. But both he and my mother were (and my mother still is) narcissists, and neither ever did anything for the good of anyone but themselves.

On the flip side, we only have one life on this planet (that we can be sure of, anyway). Shouldn't we try to grab all the happiness we can, while we can? We don't get a do-over.
 
I am a child of divorce and do not hold anything against my parents for the decision they made. Sure it would have been nice had they had stayed together but I never once thought that they should have stayed together for me and my sister. They divorced because my dad was a workaholic-never home-and my mom was tired of being married but being alone so she decided enough is enough. They didn't fight like cats and dogs or any of that but I still would not have wanted my mom to stick around. She wasn't happy and deserved to be. They were both excellent parents and that fact was unchanged by the divorce. I cried when my dad moved out. It took a little bit of time to get used to it but heck, it happened when I was 5. I barely remember it! My norm growing up was having a mom and a dad who lived separate and apart from one another...HAPPILY. Had they stayed together for me and my sis it would not have done any of us any good I don't think....

Oh, and FWIW, my mom and dad became best of friends after their divorce and I think it's wonderful.

JMHO.
 
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being in a home where parents aren't showing each other love and affection can also affect the child in some way. kids feel the tension,even though they get along, that doesn't mean it won't be tense between 2 ppl to just put on a show. eventually if you stay with somebody,even though there is no animosity, eventually it will become resentment b/c a person may feel stuck and unfulfilled and it will come out in unhealthy ways.

i am a child of divorce and i think i would have been screwed either way(my step dad was no peach either). my dad was a total nut job who couldn't figure out if he wanted a family or a party life. i can't say he was a bad person but when he was at home and bored it came out in unhealthy anger towards my mom. although he did not abuse us, is it fair for the kids to see that tension and little arguments or to see parents who have no connection.they grow up thinking that is normal to argue and be resentful to be distance. i don't want that for my child. and i have to sit in therapy to unlearn all i have seen in my life b/c of it. basically never taught what a loving marriage is.

i guess i can see your point but when you sit in therapy telling your story,you see things in a different light. that all that pushed down feelings of wanting to grab something like a dream or a goal comes out in resentment and regret. that is also something we don't want to teach our children,we want to teach them that they should reach for the stars and not changing just to apease others. although i am for if there is no animosity or abuse, at least try marriage counseling but its not a quick fix or answer to everything. but sometimes distance is caused by communication breakdowns. it happens to the best ppl in the world and usually a few trips to therapy will help give you tools to pick up the pieces and start a new,but some ppl really just change and personalities just can't sustain a healthy marriage.

JMO, i tend to take such topics personally b/c i lived that side of the coin of two distance ppl trying to stay to together for the kids but eventually ended in the ugliest divorce.

JUST WANTED TO ADD-DH was a child in such a way. everybody painted a happy face and tried to stick it out but that divorced ended ugly,one of his parents eventually had an affair b/c they just needed love and attention. now that is dh, when things are tough paint a happy face and ignore it maybe it will go away rather then fighting through it and dealing with it, then coming out the other side victorious happy and stronger. which is why we both have to sit in therapy and unlearn these behaviors before they destroy are marriage b/c i am for "let's fix this" and he is "whatever it will go away".its like dealing with a roommate and didn't get married to have a roommate.

kassia
 
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I think being able to stay together for the kids successfully requires a maturity and self-control that is beyond the capacity of many. Not to say it can't be done but to live with someone you don't want to be with, regardless of the why, generally ends up in depression, bitterness and smoldering anger. Children are pretty savvy and will pick up on that. I think the parental energy might be better spent in making sure the divorce goes smoothly and that the kids aren't put in the middle. As Morningstar said, life is short, grab happiness.

And no I don't think kids are happy living in a broken marriage just as long as mom and dad are still together. I have several friends whose parents have been miserably married for 30-40 years and everyone one of them wishes the 'rents had divorced years ago.

Maybe it should be harder to get married, who knows? I am thankful everyday for my strong, mature, fun marriage, and feel like I can't really judge the actions of those who leave unhappy ones.

Interesting topic!!
 
I completely agree with Sparrow. While my parents have been happily married for 55 years, my husband's parents "stayed together for the kids" until my husband was 17. So they stayed together, but they made no effort to make the marriage work. That means there was constant tension, my FIL was sleeping with his grad students, my MIL was sneering and resentful, and the whole situation did not work for the children. If they had gotten divorced 10 years earlier the whole situation would have been better. Totally messed up the children's view of what marriage is supposed to look like.

Of course, the minute my FIL moved out he decided he was madly in love with MIL -- who had nothing for contempt for him at this point -- and even though he remarried and had a daughter, he has actually told my husband that he doesn't love wife #2. (Just what your 20-year-old son wants to know -- what is it with these people?)

You can only stay together if you are both willing to work on the relationship and try to make it healthy. If that isn't the case, don't bother.

Tobermory
 
I believe good parents make their kids first priority in a divorce. You don't have to stay married to someone you DON"T love "for the kids." I've seen plenty of divorced couples bend over backwards in their custody arrangements to keep their kids lives as normal as possible. (Live near each other, celebrate birthdays jointly, attend school conferences & sporting events together etc.)

The longer you live w/ someone you dislike or don't respect, the unhappier you become and the more likely you are to take it out on others (esp. your kids!) or develop serious problems (drinking, drugs, infidelity).

I've seen plenty of messed up kids from 2 parent households and plenty of happy well-adjusted kids from divorced households w/ remarried parents.
 
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Marraiges just seem so disposable anymore - people don't take the "till death do us part" seriously. Very sad. It is a commitment made before God that should be taken serioulsy.Happily married with 2 children for 16 yrs - yes rough patches here also but nothing serious, we get through them. People are just to self absorbed sometimes.
 
I grew up with parents that didn't get along (not abusive or anything, just constant fighting), but my mother said that her marriage vow didn't say 'unless we don't get along or something better comes along', so they stayed together. Was I affected by the bickering and tension? Maybe. But what stands out in my mind the most was their sense of commitment and their willingness to put that ahead of their own personal happiness.

Honestly, as a kid, there were times when I wished they'd split up, but now, looking at it, I'm glad they didn't. I learned a lot about priorities, love, integrity, parenting, personal growth and living with the intention to be happy, not just waiting for it to come along.

Yes, life is short and we only get one go-around, but if our happiness is only based on what we can do for ourselves and how we, personally, are feeling, then maybe we're going to miss out on the beauty of doing something for someone else.

Another random thought - I always thought that kids get the rawest deal in joint custody cases where they have to spend alternating time with each parent. The kids have to travel between homes and split their time between two neighborhoods, friends, schedules, etc. I think that totally stinks, since it wasn't their fault, and yet, they suffer the most from it. I heard about the Gosselin's arrangement and thought it sounded so much better: the kids stay put, and the parents move in and out of the house when it's their time. That way, the parents bear the burden of the inconveniences, which seems much more fair, since they're the ones who wanted to separate.
 
MAYNARDSMOM said:
ITA!!!!
Make the choice!
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ITA as well! So many people have the mistaken idea that a good marriage is going to always be what it is in the honeymoon phase, when all you want to do is hold hands and talk into the night. When real marriage arrives as it does with great times interspersed with periods of screaming monotony - or maybe just screaming - :D they think that's an indication that the marriage is failing. Really it's just married life, and those times of being annoyed/bored/confused with each other are where the best work is done and the strongest bonds are formed.

I think Hollywood is to blame. :D

ETA: I was talking to the minister who married us recently about this very thing. She calls it the "worthy work of marriage." I like that. :)

ETA once again due to my extraneous use of the comma. :p
 
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sparrow13 said:
ITA as well! So many people have the mistaken idea that a good marriage is going to always be what it is in the honeymoon phase, when all you want to do is hold hands and talk into the night. When real marriage arrives as it does with great times interspersed with periods of screaming monotony - or maybe just screaming - :D they think that's an indication that the marriage is failing. Really it's just married life, and those times of being annoyed/bored/confused with each other are where the best work is done and the strongest bonds are formed.

I think Hollywood is to blame. :D

ETA: I was talking to the minister who married us recently about this very thing. She calls it the "worthy work of marriage." I like that. :)

ETA once again due to my extraneous use of the comma. :p
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i can agree with this side as well. there is that tough part but when you weather the storm you come out stronger. that is a bit different then just living in a loveless marriage. ppl's needs change sometimes and ppl drift and become distance. i believe,IMO there is a difference. but those that can't handle the hard stuff have to get reality check. dh was like that until we went to therapy. he doesn't always like it and neither do i but i am bound and determine to weather any issue that comes our way b/c we do love each other. if i didn't love him then i would not care enough to fight.

worthy work of marriage is a great statement!

eta:also all this not dealing with feelings and issue is also teaching our kids a not so good lesson. if we stay in a marriage and not deal with issues and just paint a happy face etc, then kids from that marriage in turn grow up and marry for themselves then either repeat the cycle OR give up on the marriage b/c they were never truly taught through their parents on how to deal with such issues in marriages and family.

kassia
 
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