mackenzie
Cathlete
I doubt it.
Barack Obama is President of the United States of America
- Thread starter SirenSongWoman
- Start date
I doubt it.
hiitdogs
Cathlete
While educating oneself about healthcare in this country is a good thing, reading articles and statistics is merely scratching the surface. It's like spotting the Orion Nebula in your telescope and concluding you've seen the whole Universe.Speaking as someone who is part of both the medical and patient community, who lives with the causes and the effects, there's a whole lot more going on ~ the ripple effect is far beyond what can be measured in terms of numbers.
I dig your interest though! I wish more people would get involved.
Lori, I totally understand that you feel differently about it than I do. If I were in your shoes I probably would, too.
I think it is a shame that great doctors are getting sued in this country for no good reason. Any one of those lawsuits is one too many. I absolutely understand the ripple effect this can and does have.
On the other hand, as someone who has been effected by a not so good medical practitioner and couldn't do a darn thing about it, I have also gotten a lot of insight into the legal system and medical community in the US. In fact a lot more than I ever wanted to. All things considered I probably was lucky because other than being miserable and continuously sick for 2 years and footing a almost $ 30k bill I am good.
I understand that this may be contrary to what you are experiencing and I think we can agree that there are two sides to every story, and I am sure that both of us having been affected in different ways neither one of us is really objective.
I know you didn't mean it that way but it comes across as if I am just reading articles and statistics about health care and that is where my opinion comes from. This is not the case. My interest in this started many, many years ago when a friend of mine got sick and had problems with her insurance. Coming from Germany and just going to the doctor whenever I needed to and got the treatment that was recommended by the doctor, I had no idea of the extent of the health care problem in the US. I had been warned before I moved here but I just dismissed it as exaggeration.
I don't want to tout my very current problems with health care but it confirms everything that people are afraid of.
So when I speak about health care it does not only originate from books, magazines and tv documentaries.
I am aware that I don't know everything and I am not totally stuck in my opinion. I am glad you are sharing your experience from your perspective.
I know you didn't talk about that but I want to point out that I understand that changing the health care in the US would be a monumental undertaking. You can't just take a system like in Germany or France and implement it in the US without adjustments. Whereas the economic systems in those countries are similar to the US, the social systems are different.
For example, doctor's salaries in Germany on average are lower but if you consider that education is free there and those German and French doctors usually don't start their jobs with an enourmous amount of student loans on their shoulders that needs to be paid off.
And whereas I don't believe, based on what I read that malpractice lawsuits is the main factor that drives up insurance cost, I realize that medical malpractice lawsuits in a country like Germany are almost non existent because every accusation of a doctor will be reviewed by a medical board and settled. I do think that this is better financially and on a substantive basis to have experts review the facts than a jury of 12 who know nothing about medical "stuff".
Sorry for being so long-winded.
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This was essentially done in the state of Vermont with Act 60. It was passed in 1997 and implemented in 2000. It was a very divisive piece of legislation...depended a lot on whether you were a poor or wealthy ("gold town") town.
http://education.vermont.gov/new/html/laws/act60_fact_sheet.html
Along with changing the way schools were funded, it also set a number of provisions to try to ensure educational quality.
mackenzie
Cathlete
I was thinking the same thing.
LaughingWater
Cathlete
I'd be up for trying that. We homeschool, so the portion of our tax money that is directed toward the public schools doesn't go to our own children at all.
But I recognize that we are part of this community ~ something bigger than our little family ~ so we're happy to contribute.Edited to add:
Carola, actually it sounds like you and I are on the same page. We're just coming from different directions.
There's no question that the declining state of the US healthcare system is multi-factorial, with malpractice being only one part of it. I'm totally on board with overhauling the whole thing.You're right ~ I didn't mean to trivialize your efforts and experiences.
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mackenzie
Cathlete
I am worried about his safety. I did not vote for Obama, but I DO NOT want something like that to happen to him. That would not be good.
dorothyrd
Cathlete
Laura, that may be a good idea in some states, but basically Illinois has no money and has not paid the state aid to its schools for over a year. My sister works for the U of I and basically the state has not paid their salaries for 6 months, it is being "borrowed" from other funds like the state retirement system and such. So for a state that knows how to budget their money and not controled by ..... from Chicago, it would work....but then perhaps it is just Illinois that is a lost cause, I don't know.
About teachers, I too come from a whole family of teachers. My Dad is retired from the U of I after being a professor of mathematics there all his working life. I remember one summer he worked for CERL because they needed a mathematician and he thought it sounded interesting. My Mom laughed because it was quite a shock to him to have a 8-5 job without the freedom teaching at a University gave him.
Our kids teachers don't have that freedom, often not even having time to go to the bathroom during the day! They work hard, and IMO kids are far less well behaved then they used to be. My kids are 5 years apart and I volunteered heavily during both of their elementary years. In 5 years there was such a degeneration of behaviour it was unbelievable, and they are in a good school district. The rudeness is appalling. In the city school district they have police patroling in the hallways with the polite name of resource officer. So yes, teachers hours at times are not as long as what I put in as a software engineer, but I am not sure I could handle the stress they deal with all the live long day.
About teachers, I too come from a whole family of teachers. My Dad is retired from the U of I after being a professor of mathematics there all his working life. I remember one summer he worked for CERL because they needed a mathematician and he thought it sounded interesting. My Mom laughed because it was quite a shock to him to have a 8-5 job without the freedom teaching at a University gave him.
Our kids teachers don't have that freedom, often not even having time to go to the bathroom during the day! They work hard, and IMO kids are far less well behaved then they used to be. My kids are 5 years apart and I volunteered heavily during both of their elementary years. In 5 years there was such a degeneration of behaviour it was unbelievable, and they are in a good school district. The rudeness is appalling. In the city school district they have police patroling in the hallways with the polite name of resource officer. So yes, teachers hours at times are not as long as what I put in as a software engineer, but I am not sure I could handle the stress they deal with all the live long day.
hiitdogs
Cathlete
Originally Posted by complik8td 
Primarily funded by $30K/plate dinners, $10K/plate luncheons, and celebrity endorsements. Jus' sayin.....
I maybe dense but I don't see why those celebreties can't spend their money however they please, if they want to pay $ 30,000 for a plateful of filet mignon and salad to support a candidate of their choosing and as long as it is lawful, I don't see the problem. They pay taxes in the US, they have the same right to choose as the rest of us does.
I don't understand why it is different when a Democrat raises that kind of money, Republicans have done it and outspent Democrats for decades.
This is an interesting site about the funding of the 2008 presidential elections http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.php
Look on the bright side though by not taking public financing Obama just saved the taxpayer $ 84 Mio
Primarily funded by $30K/plate dinners, $10K/plate luncheons, and celebrity endorsements. Jus' sayin.....
I maybe dense but I don't see why those celebreties can't spend their money however they please, if they want to pay $ 30,000 for a plateful of filet mignon and salad
to support a candidate of their choosing and as long as it is lawful, I don't see the problem. They pay taxes in the US, they have the same right to choose as the rest of us does.I don't understand why it is different when a Democrat raises that kind of money, Republicans have done it and outspent Democrats for decades.
This is an interesting site about the funding of the 2008 presidential elections http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.php
Look on the bright side though by not taking public financing Obama just saved the taxpayer $ 84 Mio
LaughingWater
Cathlete
Heh. My dad was crabbing about the money Obama raised. I asked, "And what if McCain had raised that amount?" His reply was in the form of grumbles.
hiitdogs
Cathlete
Believe it or not, I do think that IS a good thing!!!
Boy, I sound like Martha Stewart
dorothyrd
Cathlete
Originally Posted by complik8td
Primarily funded by $30K/plate dinners, $10K/plate luncheons, and celebrity endorsements. Jus' sayin.....
I maybe dense but I don't see why those celebreties can't spend their money however they please, if they want to pay $ 30,000 for a plateful of filet mignon and salad
I don't understand why it is different when a Democrat raises that kind of money, Republicans have done it and outspent Democrats for decades.
This is an interesting site about the funding of the 2008 presidential elections http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.php
Look on the bright side though by not taking public financing Obama just saved the taxpayer $ 84 Mio
My thought is way too much money is spent on campaigning, period. Just think what good could be done with the money from just one month of campaigning from all sides.
mackenzie
Cathlete
My exact thoughts.
I know this may be a poor excuse, but I really had a problem with some of Obama's celebrity supporters.
WantFit
Cathlete
Totally agree!
But I think there are people out there wanted our government to be their religion speaker. That is how thing got twist up.
It is easy to pick up words then twist it. I don't believe Obama meant to spread wealth equally, like communism. I would interpret spread some wealth from top 5 and sprinkle the hopes to those make up bottom in our society, even for those middle class. There is nothing wrong with spreading the hope. It is how we can move forward and be better than we used to be. Obama can't be a socialism or communism. His own story and his wife's story tole nothing but hard work and individualizm. I came from socialism and communism county. I know what it felt like. I would definitely not want America turn into that. I came to US, because it gave everybody opportunity. I voted for Obama because I see him set up a good example for my kids that if they work hard, they would get to where they want. And the victory of Obama will tell my kids that no bar is too high to reach. There is no excuse that you can not reach your dream.
Whatever being said or done they were all past tense now. I hope Nation would come together and we will be all American again. No need to spread rumor or fairy tale. The show will fan itself as time draws close.
I need to thank this country founder. No other country can so blankly promote independent thinking and freedom of speech and working ethic. Go America, Go Obama.
andtckrtoo
Cathlete
Cathy - Point taken. But, it honestly wasn't my intention to offend or devalue. I can only comment on what "I" see day in and day out. Unfortunatley I do not see you at my kids' school, although I soooo wish I did.
Angie
Angie - I think that's completely our point. As it is in so many professions, you get what you pay for. If we paid teachers a more competitive salary, then we would attract a different type of person into teaching and enable those like Cathy who are passionate about their professions to keep teaching. You made that point that teachers know the salaries when they go in to teaching. Yes, they do. And unfortunately, knowing the salaries is also why so many wonderful people who would make incredible teachers chose an alternative profession - because they can make much more money. That's sad. And unfortunately, the result is that many school districts have teachers who are less enthused and do not engage the children as they should.
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RunninTeach
Cathlete
Well, dear friend, I’m going to have to disagree on that. George Bush gave us a $250 tax credit for education expenses, and I’m very grateful for it even though I spend well beyond that on a yearly basis. It is most certainly a deserved break, from my perspective.
Lori,
I don’t know about other states, but in NJ, there are 567 municipalities and 616 school districts. Have yet to figure that one out. Think about all those superintendents and their salaries, and well, that may explain part of our problem here. Regional school districts would save a ton of taxpayer money (schools here are largely funded through property taxes), but that is not likely to happen.
Ideally, I'd like to see increased standards for teacher preparation and certification programs, competitive starting salaries, and smaller class sizes. I’d also like to see more states pushing for National Board certification, which is a voluntary and rigorous certification program that is continuing to gain momentum.
While I certainly believe in school accountability, I don’t think the current system of standardized testing measures student or school performance. The way No Child Left Behind works, funding is tied directly to test scores. The problem is that there is no standardization among states; every state does something different, and some state tests are easier than others. This kind of high stakes testing is dumbing down education, IMO, and these policies need to be re-evaluated.
I think an awful large part of the equation is parent accountability. Schools cannot possibly fix all of society’s ills. Until all parents assume responsibility for raising their children to work hard, value education, and respect others, I don’t know how the school can be expected to perform miracles. I definitely do not direct these comments to any parents who post here. I know from the many posts I’ve read over the years that the Cathe boards are filled with involved and caring parents who support their children’s education and want the best for them. Unfortunately, there are too many parents who are just not capable of providing that kind of care and guidance. For example, I had a student two years ago who arrived to 8th grade after having missed the entire year of 7th grade. He had just fallen through the inner-city cracks and never attended school that year. His father was MIA, mom was in and out of jail, and he was left to fend for himself. Thanks to the intervention of a family friend, he was ultimately able to transfer to a good school district. But still, how do you fill in the gap of an entire missed year of school? How do the teachers, in one year’s time, help this student accomplish proficiency overnight? Let’s keep in mind, in addition to missing a whole year of school, there were 12 years of life prior to that where it was only about survival for him. As in, finding the next meal to eat. Forget about early literacy. No one read to him as a child. No one helped him with homework. He was surrounded by negative examples. Now, of course, we gave our best effort to close the achievement gap for this child, and I think we helped him some, but realistically, what can the school be expected to accomplish in situations like this? And sadly, this not a rare instance. It is a day-to-day reality for teachers across the country. So, many schools are set up for failure under the NCLB Act because there is no consideration for the fact that some of these kids have HUGE problems, no fault of their own, which have impeded their learning and their subsequent test scores.
WantFit
Cathlete
For education, just like medical care, it really needs to be changed. Public School should not be funded by local funding - property tax. We should pool all taxes together and get funded from Federal. All states, city, district should get equal funding and equal high quality teacher. I am demoractic. But I am very appalled by Teacher Union. That is definitely very socialism and communism. The union is coming to protect unqualified teachers and punish qualified teachers.
We moved to where we are now because we were told that our school distrct is very good. But I was so disappointed. On one hand, they kept telling us that they wanted parents to invovle. On the other hand, when I tried to talk with my DD's teachers, it was such a big up hill battle. Her 4th grade one was the worst. She told me she had no time to check my DD schedule book because she has 24 kids to watch. She could not answer my phone because she had 24 kids to watch. She could not talk with private tutor I hired for my daughter becasue she had 24 kids to watch. In parent teacher meeting, she could not read the state report card of my daughter. She purposely punished my DD to put her to sit with a very bad behavior student (he slept on my dd's should during the class, or sang in the class). She came out this rule that every week, the kids rotated to sit with different kids to make friends. But after two weeks in the row my dd sat with that boy, my dd asked her if she could sit with different kids. She told my dd that if my dd brought up the request again, she would let my dd sit with that boy for the rest of school term. I called her to ask her to change. She again told me bluntly that she had to work with 24 kids. She could not track who was sitting with whom.
Ever since I pulled my dd out from public school and placed her in private school, she is very happy and doing well. So education is not just inner city problem.
I heard news from radio last night. Education board now decided to hire math consultant for school because they found out not just students were not good at math, some teachers did not have good fundamental math knowledge. That is really scared me. How could you expect your kids to be good if their teachers did not even know what they were doing. How could school board need to keep those teachers and spend more of our tax money to hire some one to educate the teachers? If we could not do our jobs, our companies will not hire consultant to teach us and do our jobs. That just make no sense. You should hire someone who is qualified for the position. The board should let go of these unqualified teachers and used the money to hire good ones.
Oh, by the way, our schoold district teachers are well paid. The mean salaries for our school is $65K. By the way, our property tax is over $9000. And we can still not get a qualified teacher. We still have to spend money to go private school. How do you expect those inner city kids to get anything?
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WantFit
Cathlete
Sorry- but I am not as optimistic as some.
I just want my country back - I am scared that my children will not know what a capitalist socitey and economy is. Unfortunately, the american people spoke and socialism is the direction they voluntarily invited into thier lives.
Thanks for letting me vent
God Bless our country, our leaders, and our people!
Let's see who left us such a mess economy right now? Who was running this country when Wall Street crisis spread to main street? Who fought so hard for the privelige to have our military contracts and stole tons of money from our tax payers? Who purposely sent out disguided message to put our sons and daughters into war in Iraqi? Yes, we desapartly wanted our country back in track, want our economy back in track?
Questions, how much do any of us, little fellows, ordinary citizens benefits from financial crisis, war? Not me, not you. Only those top 5, maybe even top 1 got it.
LaughingWater
Cathlete
Arg! I wrote a reply, but it got lost in cyber space.
Cathy, thanks for your reply to my question. I'm always interested in hearing teachers' opinions. I figure you guys are in the middle of it all and probably know better than anyone how to improve things. My sister-in-law has been a teacher for over 25 years, and she often comments on how things have changed, and not necessarily for the better.
I have hope though! This country will figure out how to turn things around eventually.
Cathy, thanks for your reply to my question. I'm always interested in hearing teachers' opinions. I figure you guys are in the middle of it all and probably know better than anyone how to improve things. My sister-in-law has been a teacher for over 25 years, and she often comments on how things have changed, and not necessarily for the better.
I have hope though! This country will figure out how to turn things around eventually.