Barack Obama is President of the United States of America

[ldy_solana]

Toastythemosty67 -

I believe there are people less fortunate and people that take advantage. I don't want to give handouts and breaks, etc. to the people that take advantage. But some people in our country work more than one job and are very honorable hardworking people. Those are the ones I am talking about.

I agree whole heartedly to not help the people who take take take and don't want to put out the hard work to achieve their own stability.

But there are people in our society that have done everything right. For instance, teachers. They have one of the most honorable professions in our country but their pay and benefits stink. So if my tax dollars have to go to help perhaps a single mother who works as a teacher, I am more than willing to help. Does that make me a socialist?

OMG i could totally write this. they are upping food stamps and free lunch programs to our school. MANY do NEED those for sure but other kids walk around in $200 shoes and brand new name brand sean johns, dnyc or whatever logo these kids like to portray for the day, while many other programs are getting nothing or getting cut. kids with free lunch demanding,not asking, demanding i get them change for a $20 while those with paid lunch(many i see working local burger joints and food stores) scrapping nickels and dimes to pay their reduced/full lunches b/c the parents are having a hard time giving them lunch money.

that my friends is very wrong. that sends the wrong message and that makes me think that ppl are not only cheating the system but getting money in ways that may not be right.meanwhile teachers are not getting raises, other programs are not getting what they need like music,sports, and dare i say for my school special education programs. my teachers have to right a 3 page letter just to get a damn stapler. WTF! police officers are in dire need in our city but not enough to go around.

i just wish the assistance programs were put in place for the reasons they were created for. to assist NOT to live off. that is why i wasn't for obama and spread the wealth b/c these are the heathens that would win. but i have a little faith when i finally got to watch his speech and hope its true to the word. keep the HARD WORKING ones going while giving help to those who NEED it. not those that can but choose not to get a job then whine and cry that they can't pay their rent.

on a side note saw a former neighbor who lives off the system. still NO job still running with the thugs and now is pregnant again. it hurts others to pay for her medical expenses, food and rent while the working ppl are struggling in this city and prayers so hard they don't loose the businesses that keeps ppl in work,the many colleges and restaurants we have here.how many r like this gal? they don't care and are proud to live off the system.

kassia

 

[ldy_solana]

Dorothy, thank you for the kind words. I do just want to point out, though, that we don't really have "summers off." We don't get paid, so the majority of us do work PT or even FT jobs during the summer.

i have SEVERAL high school teachers that also work at the same college as dh to make ends meet. a few are coaches and some are professors as well. but they all agree dh's kitchen makes better food then ours LOL. luckly they still have in place for TEACHERS(not others in the school) snow day pay,holiday pay, as well as teacher workdays in which we dont' work.

they really feel for us b/c we don't have a say when we don't and do work and we get nothing for snow days etc. they don't think its fair b/c they feel we work just as hard. we are a separate program from the actual school so that is why we are different then they are. but i will tell you they don't make much more then my dh so i don't know how they do it. and they feel for us, but equally we feel for them. they should be getting the multi million dollar contracts instead of these airheaded celebs and no good role model sports figures. JMHO!

kassia

 

[sparrow13]

This is such a great thread. A few random comments:

- teacher salaries vary wildly from one state to the next, so not all teachers are hurtin'. The region I am in has some of the highest paid teachers in the country and there ain't none of 'em takin' summer jobs. From July - August you'll find them all at the beach. And really, I can't blame them, I'd need a year on the beach after spending so much time with all those kids.

- there's a difference between socialism and a social contract. The social contract says we all do our share and pull our weight for the good of the community: schools, fire service, police, libraries, good roads. Socialism says that only some of us have to pull the weight because we had the bad judgement to be successful and make a little bit more money than the next guy or gal. By way of example, there's a big difference between me sending my child to school with an extra sandwich because I know the boy she sits next to doesn't have enough to eat, and the school board sending home a letter mandating that all students who have enough must now every day give half their lunch to another child in the class. In the former, everyone has enough;in the latter, everyone gets a tiny bit but no one is actually full.

- As Kassia points out, there are a TON of people skimming off the system. The estimated taxpayer cost of medicare/medicade abuse and fraud was hovering above 30 billion dollars a year the last time I read up on this; I'm sure it's higher now. That's not the cost of the program, that's the cost of the FRAUD. In ONE entitlement program! I am more than willing to voluntarily pay my share and give my time to help those who are truly in need. That too is part of the social contract, as I see it. What I am not willing to do is underwrite the lifestyles of those who simply can't be bothered to make responsible choices or learn from their poor judgement. I see it all the time in my rental properties. I don't rent Section 8 but I have a lot of folks on the program who want to see my units. Almost invariably there is a passel of kids in tow, and the woman is pregnant again. There's rarely a husband in sight - or even a long-time partner - but there are any number of random "fiances" and baby daddies. Kids dressed up, mom wearing clothes I can't afford, nice car, few pets usually "but I can't afford an apartment and need the taxpayer to provide my housing." These programs are bankrupting us and we need to be more practical than kindly when it comes to the government throwing our money away on these scams. Help people in your community. Support programs in your community and volunteer your time. But also demand accountability from the people living off your dime, and the legislators who allow them the free ride.

And before anybody goes off on a "yeah but what about corporate welfare tangent" I oppose that too.

Sorry for the long post.

Sparrow

 

[nancy324]

I believe that is correct! Personally, I really don't like the whole idea of "spreading the wealth". Why should anyone take from another??? Get off your arse and make your own way! Would be like trick or treating and someone going down the road and taking all the kids bags that are full with candy and giving to the ones that only went to two houses or so and barely have any candy because their little legs are "tiiiirrreeed"...poor little things..pppllleeeaasseeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Charlotte, the vast majority of wealthy people in America inherit their money from their parents and grandparents. Many of them never make it up off their arses at all. They just live off their trust funds. Poverty is, unfortunately, inherited too. People who are born into nothing are handicapped. It's a lot harder to concentrate in school if don't eat a healthy breakfast or have decent medical care. With a little help from government programs, often people with humble beginnings wind up contributing a lot to society. Believe it or not, the majority of trust fund babies wind up contributing very little. They ultimately wind up being a lot more handicapped than those who started with nothing. In fact, in my trusts and estates practice, we have noticed a high rate of suicide among the trust fund babies. Hard for most of us to imagine, but it's true.

 

[DEEDEE2]

Let's see how we all feel in 4 years....or maybe even 2 years...

I know for myself I can't possibly feel any worse in 4 years than I have for the last eight.

 

[DEEDEE2]

Would the comments of "historic night" and all of that been said if McCain would have been elected bringing with him the first women VP? I wonder . .

I would have to say 'Hell yes!' That is why this election was has been called historical from the get go, no matter who won we were making history.

 

[DEEDEE2]

Interesting how many voters turned out for this election that couldn't be bothered to vote 4 years ago, and that perhaps might STILL not have bothered to vote if both candidates were white males.

Well I know three folks who never bothered to vote until this year, because they wanted to 'help keep a black guy out of office.' Nice huh? Not voting for someone, just against someone.

And don't even get me started on the comments I have heard regarding California Prop 8! Jeez Louise!

 

[hiitdogs]

Socialism says that only some of us have to pull the weight because we had the bad judgement to be successful and make a little bit more money than the next guy or gal.

But that is not how socialism is defined, Sparrow. Socialism is defined as a social and economic system in which the economic means of production are owned and controlled collectively by the people. Socialis means that people work to produce, not for pay, and receive what ever they need without having to buy it.

Now I don't know why people get so incredibly bent out of shape that the new Democratic government will take money from us and give it to the lazy bums turning the US into a marxist country. Well, I know where it comes from but it is unfounded!!

The US and many other industrialized countries are some form of "socialist democracy". I don't think capitalism, democracy and socialism are mutually exclusive. If you define capitalism is an economic system of profit maximization, in it's purest definition a survival of the fittest.

If you combine the best of capitalism and socialism you would have a system that understood that if the individuals are well they will LIKE to be in that system and work harder, therefore be more profitable. An example of "socialist" influxes would be maternity leave, health care, worker wellness programs, possibly longer vacations (quite frankly the 2 weeks vacation in the US are ridiculous, there are lots of research examples that show that people perform better if they get time off work, but that is a totally different discussion), etc.

No one says take away from the people who work and give it to the lazy bums. Welfare in my opinion is for the ones that temporarily fall on hard times. Do I realize that there are some people who abuse the system?? Sure I do!!! But to not give help to people who need it because there are a few bad apples??

That being said, I am all for capitalism!! The way I see it, you work hard in order to achieve. What I find though is over the last decade this is not enough. The discrepancy between rich and poor has become extraordinary. If you just look at what CEOs of this country are making, IT IS OUTRAGEOUS!!! To stay with the example of a teacher, they make anywhere from $ 40 to 60k, a CEO makes in the vicinity of $ 3 to 20 Mio, sometimes more. There is no justification for that!! Period. A CEO doesn't work that much harder.
Over the last decade there has been a very one-sided "distribution of wealth", most of the "perks" and tax breaks went to the top 5 %. In my opinion it is a wrong philosophy that if the top is doing good, the wealth will "trickle down", instead of realizing that a system is only as good as its weakest link is. If the middle class is doing well, just by means of numbers the economy will get a boost.

Now, the prospect of no government is tempting but we all know that it is impossible. Government has it's place to do things that we as individuals can not do and if it is run well we all can benefit from it, rich and poor. The problem is that politics often get in the way of governing effectively.

And unfortunately, scare tactics and frightening people by throwing around buzz words like socialism, communism, marxism, liberal, dangerous etc. is how elections are usually won. I am glad, however, that it did not work this time.

 

[kathryn]

Girl, when he went up on that stage in Chicago I was so stricken with fear that I immediately started scanning the crowd for Secret Service and thinking how easy it would be for a (suicidal) sharp-shooting Klan/Aryan Nation/lunatic type to pick him off.

I had the same fear and vision.

 

[DEEDEE2]

I am, but I didn't even want to mention it (somehow it makes the possibility more real).

But there are some nut jobs out there (the kind with guns, or who might wear pointy white hoods on weekends, or have a swastika tatoo somewhere on them--none of whom voted Democratic).

Actually, I think the folks with the pointy white hats and the swastika tatoos aren't the ones Obama needs to worry about, the one's to fear are those that aren't as obvious that could be a part of the secret service or other government positions that would bring them in contact with Mr. Obama, his family and the team he hires.

 

[kathryn]

Pardon me, but I just don't get when we help those less fortunate than ourselves, we have automatically become socialists!!

Ditto!
"Socialism" seems to be used by some right-wingers as a buzzword designed to provoke fear.

(And as an aside : do you really think our capitalistic system is working that well? The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Doesn't sound like a well-functioning system to me.)

 

[kathryn]

I hope that all those who rant against "socialism" will stand by their convictions and will refuse all and any help by the police, fire department, throw away their library cards, refuse to get highways, streets and parks maintained, return any Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid payments, don't send your kids to public schools and and be totally self-sufficient.

LOL! Well said!

Funny how people forget about those 'socialist' programs. I guess if it benefits THEM, they choose to not see how they are 'socialist' in nature.

 

[wellness]

I am sure your kids will know what a capitalistic economy is. It is the capitalistic economy that just went in the tank.

The closest thing to socialism we have seen lately is the bailout of the financial industry. And why? Because of the blind belief in pure capitalism and the thought that the open market can police itself. That didn't work that well. Many Republicans voted for the bailout. Are they socialists? I don't think so.

Government, especially the US is always involved, it actively intervenes in the economy, it opens new markets, funds development of new products, fights for global resources like oil, fuels the economy through military spending, etc. This would fit the definition of socialism.

I hope that all those who rant against "socialism" will stand by their convictions and will refuse all and any help by the police, fire department, throw away their library cards, refuse to get highways, streets and parks maintained, return any Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid payments, don't send your kids to public schools and and be totally self-sufficient.

First I didn't agree with the bailout, that is govt intervention in free markets, and I agree, that is socialism. The democrat-led house and senate wrote the bill! The bailout will do nothing but prolong inevitable foreclosures. People who couldn't afford their houses 6 months ago, won't be able to afford it 6 mo from now.

Everyone agrees that there are people that need govt. assisstance and that should be provided. However, it's not the govt role to provide for all our needs and wants. As one Obama supporter said to a news reporter, "I wont have to worry about paying my mortgage and I wont have to worry about putting gas in my car", this is what many conservatives are afraid of - she's expecting the govt to get involved in matters any rational person knows shouldn't happen.
All I ask is that people do the best they can to provide for themselves and not look to the govt for salvation. Its up to each individual to create success for themselves, not the govt. Just because I believe people should be responsible for themselves, doesn't mean that I believe the govt shouldn't play an appropriate role in society. The question is to what extent, and I guess that is where we disagree.
The great thing about democracy is that we can disagree and debate and still be amicable.

As a person who volunteers and belongs to non profit organizations, its important for people to freely be willing to give back and offer a helping hand. I see first hand how generous americans are. We are the most giving nation in the world! Being against the redistribution of income is not selfish! If it is forced upon us, people will be less willing to give of their own accord.

I hope you'll respect my views as we all have a right to our own opinions.
God Bless America !

 

[kellymom]

Well said, Wellness, well said.

 

[LauraMax]

This is historic for SO many reasons! Watching Colin Powell get all choked up pretty much said it all for me without words. Even George Bush, saying how moving it'd be to see Obama & family walk through the White House door..........I have to admit I got a little weepy.

I'm very positive about the Dem majority in congress. Rather than seeing it as a lack of checks & balances, I see it as an opportunity to finally get some things done, & put an end to the morass of gridlock we've had since 1996.

And I'd also like to say, about McKain, that I do like & respect him very much. Just b/c I didn't think he'd make a good president doesn't mean I don't think he's a good man. I appreciate his graciousness & look forward to his "reaching across the aisle" to help Obama really accomplish what we hope he'll do.

 

[sparrow13]

But that is not how socialism is defined, Sparrow. Socialism is defined as a social and economic system in which the economic means of production are owned and controlled collectively by the people. Socialis means that people work to produce, not for pay, and receive what ever they need without having to buy it.

Now I don't know why people get so incredibly bent out of shape that the new Democratic government will take money from us and give it to the lazy bums turning the US into a marxist country. Well, I know where it comes from but it is unfounded!!

The US and many other industrialized countries are some form of "socialist democracy". I don't think capitalism, democracy and socialism are mutually exclusive. If you define capitalism is an economic system of profit maximization, in it's purest definition a survival of the fittest.

If you combine the best of capitalism and socialism you would have a system that understood that if the individuals are well they will LIKE to be in that system and work harder, therefore be more profitable. An example of "socialist" influxes would be maternity leave, health care, worker wellness programs, possibly longer vacations (quite frankly the 2 weeks vacation in the US are ridiculous, there are lots of research examples that show that people perform better if they get time off work, but that is a totally different discussion), etc.

No one says take away from the people who work and give it to the lazy bums. Welfare in my opinion is for the ones that temporarily fall on hard times. Do I realize that there are some people who abuse the system?? Sure I do!!! But to not give help to people who need it because there are a few bad apples??

That being said, I am all for capitalism!! The way I see it, you work hard in order to achieve. What I find though is over the last decade this is not enough. The discrepancy between rich and poor has become extraordinary. If you just look at what CEOs of this country are making, IT IS OUTRAGEOUS!!! To stay with the example of a teacher, they make anywhere from $ 40 to 60k, a CEO makes in the vicinity of $ 3 to 20 Mio, sometimes more. There is no justification for that!! Period. A CEO doesn't work that much harder.
Over the last decade there has been a very one-sided "distribution of wealth", most of the "perks" and tax breaks went to the top 5 %. In my opinion in a wrong philosophy that if the top is doing good, the wealth will "trickle down", instead of realizing that a system is only as good as its weakest link is. If the middle class is doing well, just by means of numbers the economy will get a boost.

Now, the prospect of no government is tempting but we all know that it is impossible. Government has it's place to do things that we as individuals can not do and if it is run well we all can benefit from it, rich and poor. The problem is that politics often get in the way of governing effectively.

And unfortunately, scare tactics and frightening people by throwing around buzz words like socialism, communism, marxism, liberal, dangerous etc. is how elections are usually won. I am glad, however, that it did not work this time.

Good comments as always!

What pure socialism ends up being in practice vs its textbook definition are two different things. If yes, everyone just got up every morning and went out there and pulled his or her weight and produced for their good and shared out the surplus well that would be just dandy. How realistic is it that that happens? History and human nature say that the people who manage to overproduce will keep it for themselves while another segment of the population decides that heck, if they're gonna get some anyway, why bother working at all? The rest of the people - the middle and working classes - are left to break their backs. Those are the people I'm concerned about. Frankly, I'm not losing any sleep over the wealthy; they will get what they need. Nor am I overly-concerned about the poor in this country. Why? Because I have seen enough in my own experience to believe that the vast majority who would define themselves as poor are for the most part victims of their own choices (I could give you many stories but I will spare you. ) Suffice it to say, I don't believe it is just "a few bad apples" on the system, I think it's pretty much the entire system, with some exceptions of course. I'm worried about the working and middle classes who are the lifeblood of this country. Tax them to death while at the same time making them feel as if they are working just to bail-out irresponsible corporations or support the lifestyle of "welfare queens" and they will develop a "why bother?" attitude. Stagnation and demoralization will set in. How's that for a doomsday scenario?

That said, I am not one of the folks who is crying "Obama=marxism" or claiming that the US has no socialist-type programs already in place. Of course we do. And I agree that they have their place. But they should be extremely limited and cautiously used.

Curious, why shouldn't a CEO make 3 million dollars if that's what s/he can command? Surely it's no surprise to teachers that they won't be making that, when they decide to go into teaching? And who is going to control that? The government? The teacher can make a million dollars but the CEO can't, so say the Feds? And then won't we have to feel bad for the nurses who are making $50,000 when they work just as hard as the teachers who are making 3 million?

Just as a note on the two weeks vacation thing, I read recently that a number of European countries are going to be trying to cut back entitlements, including month-long vacations. In fact I think the vacation issue is in Germany. I may be wrong about that, and sorry I can't source it, I was doing a bunch of web-reading and have no idea what page it was. If I can find it I'll post it.

I'm not foolish enough to think that government is ever going to go away. Seeing as government exists to create more government, I find that highly unlikely. But I think as a people we should be stumping for LESS government in our lives, not more. If you go through your day, morning to bedtime, and consider how much government is in everything we do on a daily basis, from flushing our toilets to raising our kids, it is mind-boggling and more than a little scary. At least to me. Even more so when you think about how ineffective and wasteful government has shown itself to be.

I'm sure I sound like a loon to many but it's extremely frustrating to those of us who are attempting to practice some level of self-sufficiency to hear people cry for more government at every turn.

Sparrow

 

[hiitdogs]

The democrat-led house and senate wrote the bill! The bailout will do nothing but prolong inevitable foreclosures. People who couldn't afford their houses 6 months ago, won't be able to afford it 6 mo from now.

I don't know where you heard that. The bill was initiated by President Bush and Secretary Paulson on a 3 page piece of paper giving FULL authority to the Secretary of the Treasury to spread the $ 700 Bio as he pleases without oversight. Here is the original bill submitted to Congress. http://www.nypost.com/seven/09222008/news/nationalnews/bush_administrations_bailout_bill_130254.htm

Obama outlined 4 principles that needed to be addressed in this bill which was added to the bill with bipartisan support.
Obama's proposed additions included

• A ban on generous payouts / golden parachutes for "irresponsible CEOs on Wall Street" for financial institutions who participate in the bailout program
• Replacing Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson's absolute authority over the bailout's execution with a bipartisan independent board.
• An investor stake for taxpayers. So that the American people would be able to share in the upside once the market recovers and not only has to stick out their necks for the downside
• Assistance for people who are in danger of foreclosure.

These were adopted through bipartisan support, however the bill did not pass in the House of Representatives until several Earmarks (aka Pork Barrel spending) were added in the second try to sway a handful of Republicans who previously withheld their support.

Now, as someone in the real estate industry I can tell you that foreclosures are not inevitable. The first round of foreclosures had a snowball effect bringing down even people who had not bought more than they can afford. If you have several foreclosures in your neighborhood, it inevitably brings down your home value and if you lost your job, you need to relocate, your bank cancels your Home Equity Line and calls it in, you are toast. And you haven't done anything wrong.
If nothing will be done to stop those foreclosures it will keep spiraling down and it effects every single one of us.

 

[LauraMax]

Something I heard on NPR the other day that made me tear up:

Rosa sat so Martin could walk.
Martin walked so Barack could run.
Barack ran so our children can fly.


Congratulations, USA... now let's get to work!!

MC

Wow. That's beautiful.

 

[LeanneM]

Dorothy, thank you for the kind words. I do just want to point out, though, that we don't really have "summers off." We don't get paid, so the majority of us do work PT or even FT jobs during the summer.

Exactly! Thanks for bringing this up, Cathy!

We teachers are only paid for 10 months out of the year; we are basically unemployed workers during summer break, through no fault of our own except for our choice of profession.

Yes, we teachers did go into teaching knowing that we would be making less money. However, my husband (who is also a teacher) and our many, many teacher friends all agree that one of the reasons for our deplorable state of eduction is because our government does not pay teachers enough or invest enough money into our educational system. If teachers' salaries were higher, teaching would attract smarter individuals who would want to dedicate their lives to teaching. Why go into teaching, making a starting salary of maybe $30,000-40,000 a year, when you can work for a company that will pay much more than that?

When Republicans grumble about our poor educational system, though, it angers me. Our teachers need more pay and our schools need more money, but that would mean more tax money going into them. Is that a terrible thing? I don't think so, but, hey, that's because I believe that an educated public is one of the greatest strengths of a country.


ETA: And I just wanted to say thanks to Fidget Queen for your interesting post! Carola, I love reading your posts! Thanks for taking the time to explain things so well!

 

[jonahnah]

Many of us Democrats would LOVE to see less government involvement, especially in our personal lives.

It will be interesting to watch how both parties interpret the recent election results and whether the GOP chooses to evolve from what it presented this year--or not. There are many smart people on both sides of the aisle. I hope the intelligent, thoughtful voices get heard over the din coming from the baseliners.