Anyone going to see The passion of the Christ?

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Thanks, Kathy! I was just thinking I am giving this too much thought. :) I am looking for a rock to craawl under until the furor subsides!

I just received David Swenson's Yoga Short Forms and it's fabulous! He's one of the Ashtanga pretzel men with a beautiful body to show for it, grrrr. It's very doable; that is, he really dumbs down his awesome abilities for the beginner who aspires to become a pretzel someday, if only in her dreams, LOL! It has 15, 30 and 45 minute practices so I am trying to indulge in yoga daily, before I hit the weights or kick into cardio. I did Hatha at the studio today and it's better than a tranquilizer. I can't believe how quickly it ends and I never want it to, unlike, say, Slow & Heavy Legs and Shoulders, where I pray for the last rep!
 
I know you didn't mean it literally.

No, I don't think I missed your point.

Respectfully, what I meant was I didn't think that analogy (I am just expressing my opinion here) held water because I don't think seeing a movie is in anyway on the same level as driving into a ditch...even for an analogy. Everyone knows that driving into a ditch is bad. Movies aren't always bad, obviously. So until someone I know personally has seen it and given me their opinion, I can't know that it is bad or good. And no one I know has seen that movie (except the critics) because it just opened today. That was what I was trying to say.

So it is just my opinion that that analogy didn't hold water for me and I was sort of kidding around having fun while stating that.

No offense sincerely meant. Some people do believe the critics and the media and go by what they read and therefore your analogy would hold for them.

Jen
 
Bobbi wrote:

"I do believe that Christ was one of the most awesome religious figures of all time and his message a beautiful one. He possessed a tolerance not seen in his fellow Jews."

Of course, we have all heard He said,

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well." Well, how can you say 'one of the most awesome?' If there are others, and yet he claims to be the only one, either he *is* what he says, and the rest are not, or he is a liar.

As for being tolerant, he certainly did not tolerate anyone who thought they could come to the father on their own.

P.S. Bobbi, I have taken issue with your O.T. posts before, too, and I suppose you are not surprised I'm doing it again. I appreciate *your* tolerance, and I hope you don't feel that I'm making a point *totally* at your expense. Thank you in advance for your usual spirit of discussion!

Hotspur wrote:
"Take it up with Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John."

I agree with that. People who say they have a problem with the credibility of the movie, or if the movie is accurate then with the Bible (but not with tons of other books or articles they have read) should really search themselves to find if what they're bothered by is its content. Our concern, without realizing it, is often not accuracy at all! It's the actual message itself that touches a nerve. (And it does rankle. It is offensive by definition. No one says it isn't humiliating.)

It touches a nerve because it's true, and truth hurts.

It does sound like the movie is very close to the script (the Bible). Claims of anti-semitism are a distraction. The whole point is so much larger than that. As for the clothing, it is still known that Romans wore white a lot, remember togas? They're from Rome. And Hassidic Jews still wear black. That's not a Hollywood add-on.

Jesus gave His life for those who know and admit they are sinners, during their lifetime. Deathbed conversions *do* count- there was one right up on the cross (the thief next to Jesus). So those who think they are already perfect have no worry. It's those of us who know what we are, who he came here to purchase. I am very grateful for it.

BTW, his last words on the cross translated to English as "It is finished," also mean "Paid in full."
 
Jen,

Thanks for your words! I do appreciate your open-minedness!

I was shocked when I read this post:

"Second of all, Jews did want Jesus dead because they considered him as a blasphemer. Romans wanted him dead because they considered him as a political threat because Jesus was called the "King of Jews". Did it ever occur to you it was the Jews who went to Pontius Pilate to have Jesus killed? Jews and Romans worked together to have him killed. WHy do you think a lot of Jews don't believe in Jesus? They didn't want him to be the Messiah. Also, the first Testament was written by Jewish people. Yes, it was written by God. God inspired a man or men to write the bible. What about Moses? God wrote those 10 Commandments. Moses had to interpret them to people for God. What about Joshua? What about all these apostles?"

I agree about the anti-semitism of these words.

I read in the Washintgon Post review today that Mel Gibson also took a lot from a German nun who loved quite awhile ago, who I think was called "Ann". Apparently, she had some very horrific and detailed visions of the torment of the Passion and wrote about them in great detail. Unfortunately, she also labeled the Jews as the people responsible for Jesus' fate. So Gibson was not just using the Bible as his only source for his story. The depiction of Pilate is not accurate as biblical scholars agree that he was a cruel and cold man who comdemned people to death by crucifixion everyday and not the tender-hearted person he is allegedly portrayed as in the film.

I think we will all have to agree to disagree about this one!

Now I'm waiting for Gibson's version of the life of Mohammed!

Susan L.G.
 
Very interesting thread....

The discussion reminds me of the controversy that surrounded "The Last Temptation of Christ" except that time it was Christians who were criticizing the movie. Personally, I have always been bothered by criticism of a movie without seeing it. The Temptation was criticized as being blasemphous and inaccurate by people who had never seen the movie when the entire controversial part was a fantasy sequence depicting a possible description of the temptation that Christ faced while on the cross. To me, it helped me relate to the human side of Christ.

For the record, I am a born again Christian. I believe that the Bible is the divinely inspired Word of God. Yes, it was written by men but they were led by God to write what they wrote.

I plan on going to see the movie and then I will decide if it is accurate and/or anti semitic. I would urge others to do the same.
 
Do you mean the sacred canons that were chosen from among many Christian writings as the devine word of God, whereas the others were labeled as heresy and surpressed? I am quite sure that Jews believe the historical Jesus existed.

The gospel of Mark has the Sanhedrin convening at night and conducting a trial that violated it's own legal practices concerning examining witnesses, self-incrimination courtroom procedure and sentencing and then convening again in the morning as if the previous nights procedings never took place. At this second trial, Jesus is taken before Pilate. Again, I reiterate, the historical Pilate was a brutal man, not the sort to give in to any one. Least of all the Sanhedrin. I'm talking history not mythology.

The gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John give different and contradictory accounts of Jesus' life.

My contention remains that, regardless of what the Gospls say, the Sanhedrin had no power to condemn Christ. He was killed by the Roman's as a seditionist.

They may not have seen the movie but they certainly know anti-semitism.

anti-semitism: the intense dislike for and prejudice against Jewish people.

That describes YOU.

Next you'll be telling me the world is 5,000 years old and dinosaurs were on the ark.



Bobbi "Chick's rule!" http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif
 
Connie, my big problem here is, indeed, intolerance. The idea that there is a single path to God, is absurd. "It touches a nerve because it is truth and truth hurts" is also absurd. I don't believe it and I think this idea of humans as fallen, flawed and sinners from birth is ridiculous. One of the things I admire about Judaism is they don't proselytize. I don't remember togas. As far as I know this is my first life experience. It will be my last and I will return to the earth, my atoms reclaimed and it will be good! I know your heart is in the right place and I admire your faith but please don't try to sell something I will never buy!

Bobbi "Chick's rule!" http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif
 
Bobbi, your posts are right-on.

And if humans ARE "fallen, flawed sinners from birth" (e.g. right off the assembly line), then that sounds like a design flaw to me. (And please don't explain this away by bringing up Adam and Eve and the doctrine of original sin!)

I like this spirited discussion and think that, for the most part, everyone's been respectful in their disagreements, considering the topic!
 
Withholding Judgement

I am holding out on my judgement until I see it of course. And that will be through rental probably. It's really difficult for me to get fired up about anything in entertainment these days. Mostly it's just disappointment over and over again as far as substance or talent. I'd rather go watch The Maltese Falcon for the 100th time.
I was listening to a talk show yesterday and a caller who had just seen the movie said that it pretty much followed what was in the Bible. If that's true, then I say kudos to Mel Gibson. To me that puts him above other directors like Oliver Stone who like to "create" things in history that never happened.
Also Gibson put up alot of his own money for this thing. He actually is not a part of Hollywood as far as all of the posturing, grandstanding, and schlock that we usually see from that ilk. And in my opinion he'll be lucky to garner any awards from Hollywood for this. In Hollywood, gay is first, God is last.
What I find amusing is that people in the media say it's too gory. Funny how I never hear any complaining about all of the horror flicks that just go way over the top with the gore.
For the record I guess I am agnostic to a degree. It is nice, I guess, to believe that someone is out there overseeing our existence. It helps people get through the rough times. I just need some actual proof beyond everyday happenings that, say, occur in nature that people like to throw out there as "miracles" and the like. Of course I work in a science field so to me all things have, and should have, logical explanations as to why they happened. Just my opinion. Save the reamings for my posts in the "childless" thread, ok? :)
Lastly, "unbeliever"? I mean, is that a term some cult invented or what? I believe in a lot of things............
Trevor
:)
 
RE: Withholding Judgement

Hi,

I have been reading this discussion all morning and had to give my opinion as well. I am also in a inner-faith marriage. I am very proud to be in this wonderful marriage with two beautiful children that we created. In my case I am the "Jew" and my husband is Catholic. I too am agnostic to a certain extent. My husband and I teach our children morals and values that we think them to be. Everyone has the right to believe in any spritual being they want. Religion and spritual belief is within yourself and the bibles you choose to read. I will not give any opinions on this movie because I haven't seen it. Whether they are anti-semetic or not it is Mel Gibson's legal right to film this movie. There are plenty of movies that are controversial and may not be everyones choice in watching. I personally do not watch anyhing that has to do with world war 2. I don't watch them because my greatgrandparents were killed there and my granparents suffered there as well. If a producer chooses to make a current film about that WW 2 I will choose not to watch it. It's as simple as that. There is hatred, racism and anti-semitism in this world no matter what. 9/11 is a perfect example of that. Was there a movie made prior to that incident? People hate and nothing will change that. Any religous movie IMHO won't change that. I don't watch religous movies because I am not interested. I would love to live in a place that has peace and love, but unfortanately I don't. I do know that our families come together and love eachother no matter what. I could not ask for a better "catholic" mother-in-law in the whole world. My husband could never ask for a better "jewish" mother-in the whole world. I have learned about both faiths tremendously. And you know what?? The more knowledge you have...a better person you will be..Now I must use my energy for IMAX 2}(
 
RE: Withholding Judgement

Bobbi,

I put that statement in the wrong place. I meant to write that it was an act hatred and i agree it was not an act of anti-semitism. That was an act of religious fundamentalism. I apologize for the confusion.
 
RE: Withholding Judgement

Love is patient; love is kind
and envies no one.
Love is never boastful, nor conceited, nor rude;
never selfish, not quick to take offense.
There is nothing love cannot face;
there is no limit to its faith,
its hope, and endurance.
In a word, there are three things
that last forever: faith, hope, and love;
but the greatest of them all is love.

~ 1 Corinthians 13 ~
Bobbi "Chick's rule!" http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif
 
RE: Withholding Judgement

Momto2bratz, please don't apologize to me. Anti-semitism was certainly a factor. You are a voice of reason!

Did you know that only the Ba'hai faith has not committed atrocities in the name of it's beliefs? Organized religion should most likely be abolished. In the meantime, we should strive to keep Chruch and State as separate entities. And pray a lot! LOL!


Bobbi "Chick's rule!" http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif
 
RE: Withholding Judgement

Bobbi wrote:

"Connie, my big problem here is, indeed, intolerance. The idea that there is a single path to God, is absurd. "It touches a nerve because it is truth and truth hurts" is also absurd. I don't believe it and I think this idea of humans as fallen, flawed and sinners from birth is ridiculous. One of the things I admire about Judaism is they don't proselytize. I don't remember togas. As far as I know this is my first life experience. It will be my last and I will return to the earth, my atoms reclaimed and it will be good! I know your heart is in the right place and I admire your faith but please don't try to sell something I will never buy!"

I didn't mean to imply, Bobbi, that you lived through the Roman empire. I just thought you knew what a toga was, from toga parties in the movie Animal House (am I dating myself here?) I don't want to argue about that though.

Tolerance, today, is a sacred cow that I have little tolerance for. Your post sounds intolerant. If you just tolerated Christianity you would be teaching by example.

Accusing me of intolerance (a sin) is calling me a sinner. As a Christian I have already acknowledged that fact.

You can ask me to stop, but I will continue to try to sell you something you say you will never buy. First of all, it's free. Jesus paid the price already. Yes, I am a proselytizer (about fitness, eating right, a balanced lifestyle, but most of all, about Jesus who is the only one who will ever really satisfy us).

No one can stop me. If it looks like I'm stopping, I'm just taking a break! :)

-Connie
 
RE: Withholding Judgement

Bobbi,

I do agree that it was partly an act of anti-semitism, but it was also hatred towards other faiths as well. It is all about organized religion as you said. I agree that it SHOULD be abolished as well. I will continue to be hopefull and pray that our future children will live in a peacefull world.
 
RE: Withholding Judgement

>You can ask me to stop, but I will continue to try to sell you
>something you say you will never buy. First of all, it's free.
>Jesus paid the price already. Yes, I am a proselytizer (about
>fitness, eating right, a balanced lifestyle, but most of all,
>about Jesus who is the only one who will ever really satisfy
>us).
>
>No one can stop me. If it looks like I'm stopping, I'm just
>taking a break! :)

Connie,

There is a time and place to proselytize - perhaps a Christian board. It does not seem appropriate here where there is a broad board base. Many of us who do not follow the teachings you do.
 
When several folks have said "Religion should be abolished" that really frightens me. Do they mean "Religion should be outlawed?" I hope not! What else could they mean by abolished? I don't think there is anything wrong with gathering together with people with the same beliefs. Certainly this should not be outlawed or abolished?! Certainly freedoms like this are what this country was founded on? Helppp!

Also I don't think there is anything wrong with stating ones beliefs in this thread in this forum...any beliefs are welcome, certainly? Clearly this was going to be a spiritual/God/religion thread based on the title of it. Christians should only post their beliefs in christian forums? I hope not. I don't think posting ones beliefs should be automatically considered 'shoving it down ones throat' Unlike, say, you are somewhere you have to be, and can't leave, and someone is shouting about it, or something... I guess.

Just my 2 c! I respect everyone here.

Jen
 
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