Anyone else think that Sarah Palin resembles....

[celestialtimes]

LOL! I'm also about to eat a nice piece of dark chocolate (antioxidants to help with stress, right?!), and I'd be glad to share if anyone would like some . . . .

Leanne,

I just had a banana...but the chocolate should scrumptious...

 

[carres1973]

Leanne,

I just had a banana...but the chocolate should scrumptious...

How about a banana with chocolate? Yummy!

Carrie

 

[Stephanie0523]

7 lies about Sarah Palin
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/05/top-7-myths-lies-and-untruths-about-sarah-palin/

Yikes. I don't think of Fox News when I think of truthful reporting. That's about the most biased media outlet out there. *cringe*

ETA: Liann--I'm a Christian, and while I do think that God has a path and a plan for everyone, I also believe he gives everyone free will to choose His way or a different way. I question any powerful public figure who stands before any audience and proclaims that war and killing others is the will of God. It also reminds me of the crusades and makes me shudder just thinking about it. I think this is why there is a separation of church and state. Everyone's interpretations are different.

Just wanted to also add my thanks to you ladies for really perking up my day! This thread has provided some much needed adult conversation to my day filled with Noggin, Hotwheels and boogar-wiping!! (I'm a stay at home mom, in case you didn't guess already ).

 

[hiitdogs]

7 lies about Sarah Palin
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/05/top-7-myths-lies-and-untruths-about-sarah-palin/

Quite frankly I wouldn't consider Fox News a credible news source. They are more to the right than MSNBC and CNN are to the left.

Many of those myths that are debunked in that article are non-issues to me and should be non-issues to any fair-minded person. I feel bad for her daughter that she is pregnant and now "has" to get married. But it is none of my business and has NOTHING to do with Sarah Palin's political views.

I don't care if Trig is her son or her grandson. Again, it has nothing to do with her political views and how good a job she would do as a VP.

She WAS a supporter of Pat Buchanan. Buchanan is a political analyst on MSNBC and he has confirmed this. I don't agree with any of Buchanan's political views but I find him kind of amusing.

I don't like the viciousness of some left-wing bloggers and the tabloids but where was the outrage when the right-wing spread vicious lies about Obama.

I had no view on Sarah Palin one way or another when she was picked as the Republican VP nominee, heck, I had never heard about her before. I was curious and I thought it was neat that a woman would be picked. However, I would never vote for a woman just because she is a woman.

I was really annoyed when I heard her speak when McCain introduced her, especially her comment about Hillary Clinton having put 18 Mio cracks in the ceiling and that the women of America are not quite done yet. And many of the Republicans on TV said, well the Democrats can't put a woman on but we WILL. So now we have a ticket that can make history.

As a woman I was insulted because I felt they nominated her as a political gimmick and not because of her experience or knowledge. And it didn't sound like Country First to me.

In any event, what really gets me about her is the incredible arrogance she showed in the way she personally attacked Barack Obama. I mean, the whole speech was incredibly condenscending, mean-spirited, sarcastic, demeaning ..... and way below the belt, she didn't attack him on issues but personally. Based on what can she sit on such a high horse?

I also have an issue with the fact that as the mayor she wanted to fire the City librarian for refusing to take books of the shelf that Sarah Palin found "inappropriate". There are books out there that I may not agree with but cencorship is where I go up in arms!!!
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837918,00.html

 

[PhyllisG]

Carola Well said! This has been a really interesting thread. I just want to add one response. I am the mother of 2 sons and I have never answered the question of who am I or what do I do with I am a mother. I really see my self as a person separate from my role as a parent.

 

[Liann]

Yikes. I don't think of Fox News when I think of truthful reporting. That's about the most biased media outlet out there. *cringe*

ETA: Liann--I'm a Christian, and while I do think that God has a path and a plan for everyone, I also believe he gives everyone free will to choose His way or a different way. I question any powerful public figure who stands before any audience and proclaims that war and killing others is the will of God. It also reminds me of the crusades and makes me shudder just thinking about it. I think this is why there is a separation of church and state. Everyone's interpretations are different.

Just wanted to also add my thanks to you ladies for really perking up my day! This thread has provided some much needed adult conversation to my day filled with Noggin, Hotwheels and boogar-wiping!! (I'm a stay at home mom, in case you didn't guess already ).

I'm baaack. Hey Steph - don't think that by my stating that I feel God is in "control" that I don't believe that he gave us a free will and the ability to make our own decisions. I in no way believe that him being "in" control means he controls me. There is a difference although I'm sure I'm not explaining it well. It's been a while since my theology classes and that is deep stuff when you get into it. I also never supported that war. Just trying to give some insight into Sarah Palin's religious side. I personally have never been one of those people who walks around saying God bless and it's God's will, yadda, yadda. That's just not me, but I've grown up with people that that is just second nature and my father was a Baptist minister, so you can guess who he's voting for. I went to a private Christian School (Independent Baptist - yeah, go ahead flame me now) and also am a Bob Jones graduate (gasp!!!). Even so, the "God told me to do it" and "God willed us to go to war" DOES bother me. But I believe it is a free country and she can say whatever she wants. It's up to us to vote one way or the other.

Carola - I read the article that mentioned the City Librarian thing. There was no real support in that article to prove she ever did that though and the only sources were a few news "reports" that were not even listed or given as back-up. The librarian herself would not comment on the story, so while I agree it would be awful if she tried to do that, I'm not convinced that she did. It sounded very circumstantial to me. Not saying it didn't happen, but where's the proof? It was obvious that the people interviewed in that article where opponents and people that Sarah had really ruffled their feathers while in office. I'm not sure their opinions on her "big city" leadership skills are all that reliable. Sounded like a lot of sour grapes to me.

 

[Stephanie0523]

Well put, Carola. I also hated the way that Palin demeaned the job of community organizers by saying that being a mayor is "kind of like being a community organizer" except it has actual job responsibilities. How dare she suggest that community organizers and those in the social work field don't have responsibilities. Seems to me they are taking the weight of the world on their shoulders and helping others. I admire Obama for his work as a community organizer out of college. He could have chosen to go to a prestigious law firm, but instead he chose to make a difference in his community. How dare the Republicans belittle that. How are you going to capture the heart of the middle class when you demean what they do for a living? Can't understand it. (By the way, she threw out the same condescending phrase again at a McCain rally today in Wisconsin. Hope there were no community organizers in the crowd!)

OK, I'll step off my soapbox for today. Thanks guys for the brain stimulation!!

ETA: Liann--Yeah, I know what you're saying. The bulk of my family are Baptist (Southern, not Freewill), and I realize that's the common belief. Still bugs me what she said mostly because she was speaking as a governor, and I think that it's not very responsible of her to say that. Just scares me that someone who could one day be president of our country actually thinks God mandates war. And regardless of where she said it and under whatever circumstances, she said it, and we all know how she feels.

 

[hiitdogs]

Carola - I read the article that mentioned the City Librarian thing. There was no real support in that article to prove she ever did that though and the only sources were a few news "reports" that were not even listed or given as back-up. The librarian herself would not comment on the story, so while I agree it would be awful if she tried to do that, I'm not convinced that she did. It sounded very circumstantial to me. Not saying it didn't happen, but where's the proof? It was obvious that the people interviewed in that article where opponents and people that Sarah had really ruffled their feathers while in office. I'm not sure their opinions on her "big city" leadership skills are all that reliable. Sounded like a lot of sour grapes to me.

Liann,

The article that was referred to in the Times Magazine article was actually published in the Wasilla Frontier'smen (the local newspaper) in 1996. In that the librarian stated that she had been asked by Sarah Palin on 3 seperate occassion about removing books from the city library. Unfortunately, the Frontiersmen online archive doesn't go back to 1996, however, if you go to your local library (which I did this morning) the librarian can pull it up for you, at least they did at my local library.

Here is another article in the Anchorage Daily News which references the Frontiersmen article. http://www.adn.com/politics/story/515512.html

Nothing bothers me more than anyone evoking God's will is behind a war or event or anything else. I truly respect that people are Christians and believe in God, the problem for me arises in that I don't think that any of us mortals is so grandious that we know what God's will really is.

None of us has a direct line to God and I haven't met or heard of anyone who can credibly state or credibly proof that they have infact talked to God. I find it extremely arrogant to pretend to know what God's will is.

Stephanie, I agree with the community organizer thing. I find it admirable that he took a "job" that paid him $ 10,000 a year. To me it proves that he genuinely wanted to help people and was in it for the greater good. It certainly could not have been for the salary. It may not be a "management" job but it certainly shows that the guy has character, compassion and dedication.

I don't want to offend anyone and I apologize if I do but this is what came to mind for me when Sarah Palin made those demeaning remarks about the community organizers. Jesus was kind of a community organizer and Pontius Pilate was a governor .

For so long as Sarah Palin is pounding religious statements in politics, I think this is a fair comparison. And just before I get yelled at, no, I do NOT think Obama is the messiah!!!

 

[carres1973]

Nothing bothers me more than anyone evoking God's will is behind a war or event or anything else. I truly respect that people are Christians and believe in God, the problem for me arises in that I don't think that any of us mortals is so grandious that we know what God's will really is.

None of us has a direct line to God and I haven't met or heard of anyone who can credibly state or credibly proof that they have infact talked to God. I find it extremely arrogant to pretend to know what God's will is.

The interesting argument to people evoking God's will is that if people didn't do that, America may never have been colonized. The Pilgrims and others felt it was God's will to go and colonize America. Manifest Destiny is also God's will. If we didn't follow that, we wouldn't have moved all the way across the country to California.

I don't know about anyone else but I talk to God all the time. That doesn't mean he talks back to me. I think there are plenty of people who have "conversations" with God.

There are also those who feel they are "called by God" to serve in a capacity. Those individuals (i.e. Mother Teresa) feel they were specifically guided by God to their specific vocation.

Boy! We covered two of the most touchy subjects in this thread - religion AND politics!

Carrie

 

[carres1973]

For so long as Sarah Palin is pounding religious statements in politics, I think this is a fair comparison. And just before I get yelled at, no, I do NOT think Obama is the messiah!!!

Well, I don't think either are the second coming of Jesus. I did find it slightly amusing that Obama, during his recent "world tour," gave speeches at places like "Mt. Sinai" and "Mt. Olympus." I don't think he was doing it on purpose...or was he????

Carrie

 

[hiitdogs]

Well, I don't think either are the second coming of Jesus. I did find it slightly amusing that Obama, during his recent "world tour," gave speeches at places like "Mt. Sinai" and "Mt. Olympus." I don't think he was doing it on purpose...or was he????

Carrie

REALLY??? He spoke at Mount Sinai Medical Center, hmmh must have missed that.

Mt. Olympus??? Are you talking about Greece? Or are you talking about Mt. Olympus in Wisconsin? Ahhhhhh, I guess some of the rightwing bloggers were calling the speech in Denver the Mt. Olympus speech.

Too bad that some of those bloggers don't know the difference between Greek columns and the Lincoln Memorial . Talk about failing education in the US

 

[bitmover]

Stephanie, I agree with you and Boingo, who said something along similar lines. And I do believe she is running for president. I think in this election none of us are voting for the presidential candidates -- we are voting for the VPs. It's just too likely on both sides that it'll end up that way, sadly.

-Beth

 

[Aquajock]

This thread rock! Pundits, bloggers, conventioneers and candidates could learn a thing or two about mature debate from the Cathletes!

I personally am opposed to McCain as president, and became increasingly so when he selected Palin. From what I've read there is a great deal of possibility that McCain's selection of Palin was extremely rushed, and she in fact was his choice only after he realized that his favorite, Joe Liebermann, would never be accepted by the Republican Party; another strong contender, Tommy Ridge, also had to be discounted because among other things he was a *gasp* "pro-choice" Republican. I also feel that, if McCain were to deliberately choose a woman as a running mate, there are other, more seasoned politicoes he could have chosen, Olympia Snowe in particular.

I disagree with Palin's political stances on most of her known issues and certainly with her stances opposing gay rights, opposing abortion rights, favoring creationism in schools, rah-rahing the war in Iraq, injecting religion far too deeply into civic / political life, and all of the other positions addressed here. Another issue that concerns me is the investigation underway in Alaska about her using her political influence and office to try to pressure the Commissioner of Public Safety (I think that's his title) to fire her ex-brother-in-law (who was or had been in a nasty divorce / custody battle with Palin's sister). IMHO where there's smoke there's fire, and that she would be comfortable abusing the power of her office in that way frightens me, especially after the past eight years.

That's my take. I'm really enjoying this thread!

A-Jock

 

[hiitdogs]

The interesting argument to people evoking God's will is that if people didn't do that, America may never have been colonized. The Pilgrims and others felt it was God's will to go and colonize America. Manifest Destiny is also God's will. If we didn't follow that, we wouldn't have moved all the way across the country to California.

I don't know about anyone else but I talk to God all the time. That doesn't mean he talks back to me. I think there are plenty of people who have "conversations" with God.

There are also those who feel they are "called by God" to serve in a capacity. Those individuals (i.e. Mother Teresa) feel they were specifically guided by God to their specific vocation.

Boy! We covered two of the most touchy subjects in this thread - religion AND politics!

Carrie

Well, but if he doesn't talk back to you, how do you know what he wants or if it is God's will what you are doing?

I am not trying to be sarcastic, I guess my left brain personality just can't follow this argument. A conversation to me is at least two-sided, otherwise it is a monologue and there is no answer from the second party involved.

I don't know, I am sure there were a whole bunch of people who came for purely economic reasons and because of an adventurous spirit. I don't think the convicts that were initially shipped by the Brits to the colonies considered it God's will either.

 

[Liann]

Lol, Carrie, your comments cracked me up!

I'll have to see if my hole in the wall 1 room school house library has that article Carola. Did it say anything about her threatening to fire the librarian or just that she had requested some books be removed from the library? That's such a petty situation, but if true does give you good insight into her character.

 

[Worknprogress]

Ditto!

Ditto AquaJock! I too am enjoying this thread. I think a "good" political debate is eye-opening because people bring up things you didn't know and therefore, you investigate and learn!

 

[Liann]

Well, but if he doesn't talk back to you, how do you know what he wants or if it is God's will what you are doing?

I am not trying to be sarcastic, I guess my left brain personality just can't follow this argument. A conversation to me is at least two-sided, otherwise it is a monologue and there is no answer from the second party involved.

I don't know, I am sure there were a whole bunch of people who came for purely economic reasons and because of an adventurous spirit. I don't think the convicts that were initially shipped by the Brits to the colonies considered it God's will either.

Carola - PLEASE don't read this wrong. It's soooo hard to make things sound right over the internet!!! But here's my attempt - basically, if you aren't a "Christian" (using the term very loosely, like say an aethiest or agnostic, or someone who sort of believes in something higher, but isn't sure) then it would be hard to understand how someone who is deeply religious can feel God's call to a certain thing or feel a strong sense that God has a particular plan for them - like say Mother Theresa for example. A person not of that faith couldn't fathom that. They wouldn't be expected to. There is nothing rational about religion. It is all based on one huge factor - FAITH. So, it's not something that anyone is ever going to be able to fully explain. It's something that is experienced. Ok, hope that came across right. That being said, there are a bunch of wierdos and loonies out there who go around saying "God told me to ____" or "God talks to me" etc... That just freaks me out. It's usually mass murderers or dictators who say stuff like that.

 

[baylian]

Taxation . .anyone . .Bueller

Did I miss it or is not anyone concerned with the tax issues in this campaign?

All I have read is about religion and abortion rights which are two minor players this time around. And fact has it that where there is religion - there are genuinly decent people. I know that will get me flamed up the kazoo but it is true. And do you really think that roe v. wade will get overturned? No it won't. I am a prolifer however I don't even think that will happen.

It's been a while since I have been on these boards. Currently displaced from my home 1500 miles away taking care of my dear Dad who is terminal. So I decided I needed to visit some forums and let my fingers type.

But back to taxes:

CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN
0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples) McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.

OBAMA
28% on profit from ALL home sales

How does this affect you?

If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.



DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN 15% (no change)

OBAMA 39.6%

How will this affect you?

If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned in taxes if Obama become president.

The experts predict that 'higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.



INCOME TAX

MCCAIN (no changes)

Single making 30K - tax $4,500 Single making 50K - tax $12,500 Single making 75K - tax $18,750 Married making 60K- tax $9,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA
(reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts) Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Married making 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 125K - tax $38,750


Under Obama your taxes will

more than double! How does this affect you? No explanation needed. This is pretty straight forward.



INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA Restore the inheritance tax

How does this affect you? Many families have lost businesses, farms and ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.



NEW TAXES BEING PROPOSED BY OBAMA


* New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet


* New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already)


* New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity)


* New taxes on retirement accounts and last but not least....

* New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries.


If an immigrant is over 65, they can apply for SSI and Medicaid and
get more than a woman on Social Security, who worked from 1944 until
2004. She is only getting $791 per month because she was born in 1924
and there's a 'catch 22'.

It is interesting that the federal government pr ovides a single refugee
with a monthly allowance of $1,890. Each can also obtain an additional
$580 in social assistance, for a total of $2,470 a month.

This compares to a single pensioner, who after contributing to development of America for 40 to 50 years, can only
receive a monthly maximum of $1,012 in old age pension and
guaranteed income supplement.




Maybe our pensioners should apply as refugees consider sending this to
all your American friends, so we can all be ticked off and maybe get
the refugees cut back to $1,012 and the pensioners up to $2,470. Then
we can enjoy some of the money we were forced to submit to the
Government over the last 40 or 50 or 60 years.


TAXATION = redistribution of wealth. I would prefer it not be mine wealth - what little I have.

Just some things to think about people . .

 

[beskinny]

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN 15% (no change)

OBAMA 39.6%

How will this affect you?

If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned in taxes if Obama become president.

The experts predict that 'higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.

I've been enjoying this conversation thus far but have to point out that the above is blantantly untrue. Dividends (pre-bush) were taxed at a taxpayers marginal rate (the highest 39.6%, lowest 15%.) The law he enacted (Jobs Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 to be precise) reduced the dividend tax rate on "qualified" dividends. Part of Obama's plan is to take back this cut which really only effects the wealthy. Dividends paid out in ANY tax-deferred/retirement account will not be effected by this.

Will this affect you? Look at last years tax return - specifically schedule B. How much was your dividend income? Now find out what your marginal rate is. How many middle-class income families that YOU know will truly be affected by this? Not many. How about the rich? Lots.

As a tax accountant I can tell you that I have already been fielding calls from my clients. They are citing references similar to the "information" that is stated in the referenced post. (Beyond just the dividend rate of course; it was the easiest to quickly explain.) They are afraid...which is exactly the goal of the Republican party...which irritates me to no end. I feel like I should send them a bill.

Please, before you believe what this poster said, do your research. Here are some links:
http://www.fool.com/personal-finance/taxes/2003/06/20/the-new-lower-tax-on-dividends.aspx
http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/
http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/jun2008/pi20080622_415010.htm

It's Friday. I've been good all week so I'm going to open a bottle of wine and have a glass (or two!)

 

[MCunningham]

I'll join in with the crowd who finds Ms. Palin highly scary. She's attractive, she's driven, she's focused, and I have no opinion on her status as a wife or mother, but she just stands for everything that I'm opposed to, chief among them:

- Limiting women's reproductive choices
- Extending/continuing the war in Iraq
- Continued use of fossil fuels to the detriment of the environment
- Injecting more religious flavor to the government
- Censorship

I respect the opinion of those who say they want more evangelical presence in the government, but since I am a staunch atheist, let me try to put something in perspective... how would you feel if Sarah Palin were a staunch Muslim who wanted to inject more of her beliefs into the government? How would you feel? That is how I feel about this push for more "religious consideration" in government... I'm being force-fed a religious ideals I don't (and a large portion of the US doesn't) espouse. And this is supposed to be the country that was founded on freedom of religion. For those who are all for a large-scale influence of religion in politics, please do some research into the governments of Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and Iran.

If you don't agree with abortion, then that's fine, don't have one. That's the great thing about America... if you don't want to do something, you don't have to. The pro-choice side isn't forcing anyone to do anything, whereas the rabid pro-lifers are forcing women into a corner and now allowing them to control their own fates. For those who like to side with Bush's view that "freedom is on the march", which of those two options sounds more like freedom to you? If you are never in the position where you have to make the choice about whether or not to keep a pregnancy, count yourself as lucky, and remember that NO woman makes that choice lightly.

With the war in Iraq... I'm not necessarily anti-war (I am a military veteran), but this war was such a stupid idea, executed in a very dumb manner, that it is difficult to see what it is that people support about it. For those of you that support it, how many people do you know that have gone to Iraq? How much of the daily struggle of dealing with a loved one in a war zone have you had to deal with? Aside from the emotional aspects of it, let's talk numbers. Our own country is in a tremendous amount of debt, our own public programs are going under, our schools are drastically underfunded, and it's likely that none of us will EVER see social security. However, we continue to literally pour billions into Iraq, a country whose own countrymen have no desire to rebuild... two of my best friends are in Iraq right now serving on MIT teams to train the Iraqi army and they regularly relate to me their frustrations dealing with a military/police force that literally runs the other way whenever there's a conflict. Many of them don't show up to work or go completely AWOL; they steal equipment and sell it for money on the streets. They refuse to search vehicles because the occupants are their mother's sister's cousin's brother's kids, and "they're good people". (FYI, upon inspection by the US forces, several of these types of situations have yielded cars full of explosives.) Please explain to my why my friends might lose their lives to rebuild a country that has no desire to do any of the dirty work for themselves.

Oil? I'd like my children to have a planet to live on. Regardless of where you drill, or how deep or how long, no one argues that 1.) oil is a fossil fuel and 2.) oil is finite. Why are the Republicans pooh-poohing things like EPA standards, attempts to reduce worldwide pollution, and programs to develop renewable energy sources? We've seen the end of the tunnel (how do you all feel about $5/gallon gas?) and they are still in denial!!

Last comment... censorship. If we ever allow this to happen in the US, we're no better than Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan or Iran.

Why will I not vote Republican? It's not as much because of what they lack (plans, preparedness, experience), it's for what they have in abundance (arrogance, condescension, shortsightedness, denial).

As several others have said... Sarah Palin in no way speaks for THIS American woman. As one columnist put it, I have nothing in common with her but a chromosome.

MC