Just to stir up a hornet's nest, what does everyone think about this?

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Cathlete
Wash. state woman 1st death under new suicide law
Updated Mon. May. 25 2009 7:28 AM ET

The Associated Press

OLYMPIA, Wash. -- Linda Fleming was diagnosed with terminal cancer and feared her last days would be filled with pain and ever-stronger doses of medication that would erode her mind.


The 66-year-old woman with late-stage pancreatic cancer wanted to be clear-headed at death, so she became the first person to kill herself under Washington state's new assisted suicide law, known as "death with dignity."


"I am a very spiritual person, and it was very important to me to be conscious, clear-minded and alert at the time of my death," Fleming said in a statement released Friday.

"The powerful pain medications were making it difficult to maintain the state of mind I wanted to have at my death. And I knew I would have to increase them."


With family members, her physician and her dog at her side, Fleming took a deadly dose of prescription barbiturates and died Thursday night at her home in Sequim, Wash.


Chris Carlson, who campaigned against the new law with the Coalition Against Assisted Suicide, called the death unfortunate.


"Any premature death is a sad occasion and it diminishes us all," he said.


Compassion & Choices of Washington, an advocacy group that aids people who seek to use the law, announced her death.


Last November, Washington became the second state to have a voter-approved assisted suicide law. It is based on a law adopted by Oregon voters in 1997. Since then, about 400 people have used the Oregon law to end their lives.


In December, a district judge in Montana ruled that doctor-assisted suicides are legal in that state. That decision, based on an individual lawsuit rather than a state law or voter initiative, is before the Montana Supreme Court.


Doctors in Montana are allowed to write prescriptions for life-ending drugs pending the appeal. But it's unknown whether any actually have because there's no reporting process in place.


Under the Washington law, any patient requesting fatal medication must be at least 18, declared mentally competent and be a resident of the state.


Additionally, two doctors must certify that the patient has a terminal condition and six months or less to live, and the patient must make two oral requests 15 days apart, plus a written request that is witnessed by two people. Patients must also administer the drugs themselves.


Under the Washington measure, as in Oregon, doctors and pharmacists are not required to write or fill lethal prescriptions if they oppose the law. Some hospitals have opted out, which precludes their doctors from participating on hospital property.
 
Shouldn't you be giving your opinion first or are you just gonna sit back and watch the brawl? ;):p:D

Well, I will start. ITA with this! I've always said that Kavorkian (spelling??) was on to something!!!!
 
I agree with Wendy. If the patient is terminal and is in pain, and will continue to feel pain until death. I think that a death with dignity is okay. I have seen too many people in pain at the end. The prolonging of the pain and suffering allows the survivors to have time to prepare for the death and the grieving process, but it gives nothing to the dying. I think that if it were me, I would fight to the very end, but I see nothing wrong with those who make this choice.

This can be a very personal, deep topic. Can we have a poilte debate? :)
Jenn
 
I agree with the law 100 percent. I don't get people who think they have any say whatsoever in another person's decision to die.
 
I also agree with the law. I have frequently said that our pets have the option of ending their pain and suffering while we do not. I want that choice for myself. I watched my mother lie in an irreversible coma for 3 months after the hospital resuscitated her against my signed wishes.
 
I agree with the law as well. Personally, I hope I never have to make that choice, but I would certainly check myself out of this world then die a horrible slow death from an incurable disease. Having watched my mom slowly die in the hospital over the course of several months, I also think it would be easier on the family to know their loved one is no longer spending days in agony waiting to die. I would have rather said goodbye and have her lethally injected than to spend months on end never knowing which day would be the day, and knowing she was suffering. Just my $.02

Nan
 
I also agree with the law. My worst fear is dying helplessly, in horrible pain, hooked up to tubes, and having the agony prolonged and intensified. I would want to have the option to surround myself with those I love and drift off to sleep peacefully, and if I had a family member who was at the end of a terminal illness, I would want that person whom I love so much to have that same option, it would be so horrible to see a family member suffer in agony when death is imminent anyhow. Some people would choose to be kept alive until the bitter end, but I would like to have the choice.
 
I'll be the first to disagree! Just my opinion here and not meant at all to spark a "religious" debate, as we are all entitled to our opinions. I disagree because I believe that it is up to God when someone's life ends. I also have faith and believe in miracles, including the miracle of a person who is deemed "terminal" by a doctor, to be fully healed by the power of God, if this is His will (example to follow). Prematurely taking your own life eliminates this possibility. Don't get me wrong, I think suffering is horrible and can understand why no one would want to go through it or stand by and watch, me included. But I could never make that decision because my life and death are wholly in God's hands, and there is meaning to all things we go through in life, even suffering.

My father died of cancer but it was rather quick. He did suffer a bit, but I thank God that it wasn't for long. Also, I had an aunt who was diagnosed with terminal stage 4 ovarian cancer about 15 years ago. They told her family she would be gone within 3 months and to prepare for her death. She did suffer through treatments but survived and went on to live for the next 10+ years. Unfortunately she did pass away in an unrelated matter. But, had she committed suicide instead of going through the pain, she would have lost 10+ years of living a full, wonderful life with her husband, kids and family. While one can argue that this is not the "norm", it does happen.
 
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My father died of cancer but it was rather quick. He did suffer a bit, but I thank God that it wasn't for long. Also, I had an aunt who was diagnosed with terminal stage 4 ovarian cancer about 15 years ago. They told her family she would be gone within 3 months and to prepare for her death. She did suffer through treatments but survived and went on to live for the next 10+ years. Unfortunately she did pass away in an unrelated matter. But, had she committed suicide instead of going through the pain, she would have lost 10+ years of living a full, wonderful life with her husband, kids and family. While one can argue that this is not the "norm", it does happen.

I think your examples are the exception rather than the norm. I don't know what I would do as I am not in that position and I don't believe anyone can definitively say while they are healthy and not in continuous agony what they would do, but I do believe people should have the right to decide for themselves (as in another situation that I won't even begin to discuss). What right does government have to make personal decisions about life or death for others?

I think keeping terminally ill patients alive is all for the benefit of others, is selfish of the family and should only be done if it is the patient's wish, thus, the reason for a Health Care Power of Attorney and Terminally Ill Statement.

Good for the State of Washington to figure it out and give people their choice of what quality of life they have left! I like that they have set the law in a way that the person has to request it twice with time in between because people can change their minds!

Tricia
 
I think the law is brilliant, and it's about time. This type of law has existed in Europe for years. People should get to make this decision for themselves, and IMO, no one else gets a vote.
I tend to apply this line of thinking to just about everything.
I don't understand where along the line this country became a place where other people get to make civil laws that impede another person's ability to do whatever they want with their bodies. One person's opinion on what another person chooses to do with their body is completely irrelevant - or at least it should be.
 
I am 1,000% for this law. I think it's ridiculous that it's taken this long. I watched my mother-in-law, who battled ovarian cancer, waste away and die in horrible pain that mega-doses of morphine couldn't touch. Her last 3 weeks of life, she couldn't swallow, she couldn't talk (all she could do was moan), and she'd lost control of her bodily functions. The absolute worst part was that you could see in her eyes that she was utterly miserable having to be in that state. She'd always been a proud woman, and I could tell from looking at her face that having people clean her up after she'd lost control of her bowels AGAIN just killed her spirit the way the cancer was killing her physical body.

For those of you who respectfully disagree for religious or other reasons, I think that is just fine. Just please don't relegate the rest of us to dying like my mother-in-law was forced to-- in massive pain and stripped of every shred of dignity.

MC
 
I just saw the movie Wit. this weekend. The star is Emma Thompson. It's about a cancer patient and all kinds of poisons injected into her system. Like chemotherapy...

In the story she was very witty, (funny) but in the end of course with most cancer patients was not funny at all and showed how much she suffered. The cancer she had was stage 4, there is no stage 5. So, it was experimental drugs that they offered her. They didn't even include a choice for alternative med. that are sometimes beneficial in other countries.

I know it was just a movie but I also had the experience of my grandmother having lung cancer die a horrible death. I suppose now a day with drugs a person could be spared from the pain, but not from a clear mind also.

But, because I saw this movie so recently, and felt her pain as she was going through this, and also witnessing my own grandmother having to go through what she did, I would opt to let patience be able to make that decision for themselves. It's a very personal choice.

As an individual and free people, I think we should all have choices. Any choices taken away from us is not a good thing, because eventually other choices that aren't so difficult may be taken away from us as well. I wouldn't want to see that no matter what.

Just a thought and my opinion.

Janie
 
I'll dive into the hornet's nest. I prepare living wills every day, and they still make me queasy after all these years. Withholding hydration? Who wants to die of dehydration? My mother-in-law died this way and it took her more than a week to go. Sorry to be so graphic here, but I say ABSOLUTELY to quick, easy and painless. Why should my dog get to go that way, but not my mother-in-law?
 
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I'll be the first to disagree! Just my opinion here and not meant at all to spark a "religious" debate, as we are all entitled to our opinions. I disagree because I believe that it is up to God when someone's life ends. I also have faith and believe in miracles, including the miracle of a person who is deemed "terminal" by a doctor, to be fully healed by the power of God, if this is His will (example to follow). Prematurely taking your own life eliminates this possibility. Don't get me wrong, I think suffering is horrible and can understand why no one would want to go through it or stand by and watch, me included. But I could never make that decision because my life and death are wholly in God's hands, and there is meaning to all things we go through in life, even suffering.

My father died of cancer but it was rather quick. He did suffer a bit, but I thank God that it wasn't for long. Also, I had an aunt who was diagnosed with terminal stage 4 ovarian cancer about 15 years ago. They told her family she would be gone within 3 months and to prepare for her death. She did suffer through treatments but survived and went on to live for the next 10+ years. Unfortunately she did pass away in an unrelated matter. But, had she committed suicide instead of going through the pain, she would have lost 10+ years of living a full, wonderful life with her husband, kids and family. While one can argue that this is not the "norm", it does happen.

I totally agree!
 
As much as people may try to dress up this issue in religious debate, that will never be the real issue. People who have religious objections will never be forced to make a decision they don't believe in. All the law does is give people a choice. The true issue is and will always be fear of liability. Fear of liability hamstrings so much that is worthwhile, in my opinion. It's the reason doctors don't have time to listen to complaints that aren't life-threatening. It's the reason most attorneys have turned into "lawyers". It's a very serious issue, IMHO, and there are no easy answers.
 
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I'll be the first to disagree! Just my opinion here and not meant at all to spark a "religious" debate, as we are all entitled to our opinions. I disagree because I believe that it is up to God when someone's life ends. I also have faith and believe in miracles, including the miracle of a person who is deemed "terminal" by a doctor, to be fully healed by the power of God, if this is His will (example to follow). Prematurely taking your own life eliminates this possibility. Don't get me wrong, I think suffering is horrible and can understand why no one would want to go through it or stand by and watch, me included. But I could never make that decision because my life and death are wholly in God's hands, and there is meaning to all things we go through in life, even suffering.

My father died of cancer but it was rather quick. He did suffer a bit, but I thank God that it wasn't for long. Also, I had an aunt who was diagnosed with terminal stage 4 ovarian cancer about 15 years ago. They told her family she would be gone within 3 months and to prepare for her death. She did suffer through treatments but survived and went on to live for the next 10+ years. Unfortunately she did pass away in an unrelated matter. But, had she committed suicide instead of going through the pain, she would have lost 10+ years of living a full, wonderful life with her husband, kids and family. While one can argue that this is not the "norm", it does happen.

Agree . . .

My father (squamous cell cancer) and mother (breast cancer) both battled and suffered to the end. They never ever talked about suicide. They prayed (I could hear them at night through the baby monitor). We prayed. I prayed. That to me is death with dignity. Dying when our Lord calls it . .not when we do.

And yes this will be a stirred up hornets nest in the days to come. I am just going to sit back and watch over the course of the week.

Hopefully it will stay sane . . .
 
God's choice to end it for us? I think not. A higher power is with us, no doubt in my mind, but, He's given us choices to make everyday. Shall we take drugs to mask our pain? Should we study in order for God to give us an A? Should we drive to work in order to make a living? I know God provides, but we still have to go to work in order for it to happen (I wouldn't belittle myself and say it is all God). Have faith you say? I believe I need something to believe in, or otherwise I'll go crazy. But, to give up choices made for myself, never. It might not be the correct choice, but then again how do we really know? It could be the right choice for me.

If someone has no faith, and believes only in life and how it works, does that mean that a religion can tell me what to do on how I want to die? I think not. Like I said, it is a personal decision, and we all should have a right to chose for ourselves on how to die, and it's OK to disagree, but, we should be able to choose. We all don't believe in the same way as others.

Janie
 
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I'm not suffering from terminal cancer and have no real knowledge of what pain the people around me (and their loved ones) are going through. Like many things, it's a deeply personal choice and, ultimately, none of my business. But I believe in the God of my heart, that he knows all, and has compassion for his children. That's what really matters.
 
Agree . . .

My father (squamous cell cancer) and mother (breast cancer) both battled and suffered to the end. They never ever talked about suicide. They prayed (I could hear them at night through the baby monitor). We prayed. I prayed. That to me is death with dignity. Dying when our Lord calls it . .not when we do.

And yes this will be a stirred up hornets nest in the days to come. I am just going to sit back and watch over the course of the week.

Hopefully it will stay sane . . .

And that was the right choice for THEM. Are you saying that this same choice should be forced on someone else?
 

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