Why no background modifiers?
- Thread starter CJ 5
- Start date
I think Barbara has said it best for all us Cathe purists. ( or should that be fanatics) I am one of the "older" exercises and some of the moves I just can't do but find my own modifications. After viewing a tape a few times it is not hard to "do your own thing". Cathe does offer pointers on modifications and often tells you to stay at a lower level (IMAX I) for example. There is a large market for the advanced exerciser and I believe Cathe has found her niche.
that seems like a polite way of calling me stupid then because when I buy a video I am paying for the expertise of that instructor.
It seems like really this thread has two sides. The suck it up and figure it out on your own side and the yes it would be nice side. Really I only posted this question because it comes up all the time and I would love to have cathes input on it but it probalby has become to hot for her to touch.
It seems like really this thread has two sides. The suck it up and figure it out on your own side and the yes it would be nice side. Really I only posted this question because it comes up all the time and I would love to have cathes input on it but it probalby has become to hot for her to touch.
mojolisa
Cathlete
Hi CJ5. I noticed you are a new member to this board, and I hope the replies you have received on this topic do not turn you off from us. Usually this is a very friendly group, and I really do not think anyone set out to insult you.
The people on this site (me included) LOVE Cathe. We're really appreciative of the fact that she is so dedicated to servicing the advanced exercisers. If it weren't for her series, I can't think of any other program with as much advanced intensity that would keep me highly motivated and always pushing myself to do more. I think the message people were trying to convey was to say, "Thank you", to Cathe for giving us a program like no other home video series has been able to match.
I guess what it really comes down to is personal taste. Some people would like a modified exerciser, some want full-out maximum intensity. Some folks like the background exercisers to stay quiet, some go for all the whooo-hoooing. Another great thing about Cathe is that she is great about asking our input for new video ideas. So if she is reading this post, I'm betting that she will consider your suggestion for the next series.
Welcome to the forum, and please come back!
Lisa
The people on this site (me included) LOVE Cathe. We're really appreciative of the fact that she is so dedicated to servicing the advanced exercisers. If it weren't for her series, I can't think of any other program with as much advanced intensity that would keep me highly motivated and always pushing myself to do more. I think the message people were trying to convey was to say, "Thank you", to Cathe for giving us a program like no other home video series has been able to match.
I guess what it really comes down to is personal taste. Some people would like a modified exerciser, some want full-out maximum intensity. Some folks like the background exercisers to stay quiet, some go for all the whooo-hoooing. Another great thing about Cathe is that she is great about asking our input for new video ideas. So if she is reading this post, I'm betting that she will consider your suggestion for the next series.
Welcome to the forum, and please come back!
Lisa
CJ5 .... RE: Why no background modifiers?
CJ5 - Hi. I am not usually a poster, just a lurker. But had to respond to this thread
I want to tell you that I do feel for you and know that you probably didn't mean for this topic to get so out of control. But you should also realize that your message came off as somewhat offensive (below I have quoted your 2nd reply). Why come here and quote a rude comment to someone who responded to your message only to help you. How did you help your original intent of coming to the Cathe board and asking the question?
You seem like a bright woman and should know that posting a message like the one below on a form dedicated to Cathe is probably not going to come across as POSITIVE.
I do understand your request for Cathe to modify moves and that was a valid request as that is what this board is for. But the thing to note here is that YOU took it into a RATHOLE by being negative... not everyone else. Also, no reason to tear into these folks just because they enjoy "Advanced" videos regardless of their skill level. I do not think Cathe is "alienating 1/2 her market share" by continuing to focus on the advanced market. As others have said she has a Niche market. Other video makers have a "niche" market with beginner videos. I personally would NEVER buy a Richard Simmons video, but some would. That doesn't mean he is alienating me! I am just not in his TARGET market. So be it! If Cathe were to focus on modifying, spending time showing modifications in every video there are many in her Niche market that would be disappointed and probably not buy the next round of videos if it took away from the advanced focus workout!?
It is a simple fact that Cathe caters to the advanced exerciser. Simply listen to her videos and you will hear her say it over and over . Sorry you have a problem with that. Why can't you just do as others do and modify on your own? Or buy another video from someone who "TARGETS" you as the Niche market. There are plenty of them out there. Or if you really want to talk to Cathe without all of us... why don't you send her an e-mail instead? Hmmmmm.... maybe you just want to bash?
Many of us have been where you are and have struggled with all sorts of things in both exercise, weight loss and life. I remember the day when I could barely get thru a 1 hour step class of any kind. We did not all START OUT with Cathe videos (however,some have) But the main point is that we are here now and are very defensive of Cathe. Cathe holds a very unique market space that has obviously been successful for her financially or she wouldn't continue to serve it. It is up to Cathe if she decides to change that focus. Thus, your request is still valid. I just recommend you go about it a little differently the next time.
Your Quote:
"Deborah I can't believe how many emails I have gotten over this thread all agreeing with me but afraid to post. I just find it impossible to believe that the cathe I watch in my weight videos would alienate over half of the market share of home fitness video exercisers like that. I admit I did not buy the intensity series for this very reason so if there is a background modifier I will jump on it. I assume that most of Cathes customers are people who are very into exercising at home. I read countless posts of people who say " Not ready for Cathe choreography?" or "Don't want to jump on one leg?" or "how do I modfiy cathe in *****?" These are advanced exercisers that just would rather have someone to watch on modifications. Clearly that is not much of a compromise for someone ast talented as Cathe is. I am sure this was a business decision I will just wait to hear her take on thisBTW This is just one of about 6 I already got todayQuote "I was just over at Cathe's forum, and see that your question on background exercisers was answered....but not by Cathe. Looks like one of the "Cathe is for advanced exercisers and if you're not, too bad" folks took it upon herself to answer. I just wonder how much business Cathe would lose if only the advanced folks who never modify bought her.I didn't want to post this on the forum because I don't want to tick off a nybody.--------------------------------------------------------end Quote
Good Luck Cj5. I hope you do find a Cathe video that works for you. Give the intensity videos a chance! They are a challenge for all of us.
CJ5 - Hi. I am not usually a poster, just a lurker. But had to respond to this thread
I want to tell you that I do feel for you and know that you probably didn't mean for this topic to get so out of control. But you should also realize that your message came off as somewhat offensive (below I have quoted your 2nd reply). Why come here and quote a rude comment to someone who responded to your message only to help you. How did you help your original intent of coming to the Cathe board and asking the question?
You seem like a bright woman and should know that posting a message like the one below on a form dedicated to Cathe is probably not going to come across as POSITIVE.
I do understand your request for Cathe to modify moves and that was a valid request as that is what this board is for. But the thing to note here is that YOU took it into a RATHOLE by being negative... not everyone else. Also, no reason to tear into these folks just because they enjoy "Advanced" videos regardless of their skill level. I do not think Cathe is "alienating 1/2 her market share" by continuing to focus on the advanced market. As others have said she has a Niche market. Other video makers have a "niche" market with beginner videos. I personally would NEVER buy a Richard Simmons video, but some would. That doesn't mean he is alienating me! I am just not in his TARGET market. So be it! If Cathe were to focus on modifying, spending time showing modifications in every video there are many in her Niche market that would be disappointed and probably not buy the next round of videos if it took away from the advanced focus workout!?
It is a simple fact that Cathe caters to the advanced exerciser. Simply listen to her videos and you will hear her say it over and over . Sorry you have a problem with that. Why can't you just do as others do and modify on your own? Or buy another video from someone who "TARGETS" you as the Niche market. There are plenty of them out there. Or if you really want to talk to Cathe without all of us... why don't you send her an e-mail instead? Hmmmmm.... maybe you just want to bash?
Many of us have been where you are and have struggled with all sorts of things in both exercise, weight loss and life. I remember the day when I could barely get thru a 1 hour step class of any kind. We did not all START OUT with Cathe videos (however,some have
) But the main point is that we are here now and are very defensive of Cathe. Cathe holds a very unique market space that has obviously been successful for her financially or she wouldn't continue to serve it. It is up to Cathe if she decides to change that focus. Thus, your request is still valid. I just recommend you go about it a little differently the next time. Your Quote:
"Deborah I can't believe how many emails I have gotten over this thread all agreeing with me but afraid to post. I just find it impossible to believe that the cathe I watch in my weight videos would alienate over half of the market share of home fitness video exercisers like that. I admit I did not buy the intensity series for this very reason so if there is a background modifier I will jump on it. I assume that most of Cathes customers are people who are very into exercising at home. I read countless posts of people who say " Not ready for Cathe choreography?" or "Don't want to jump on one leg?" or "how do I modfiy cathe in *****?" These are advanced exercisers that just would rather have someone to watch on modifications. Clearly that is not much of a compromise for someone ast talented as Cathe is. I am sure this was a business decision I will just wait to hear her take on thisBTW This is just one of about 6 I already got todayQuote "I was just over at Cathe's forum, and see that your question on background exercisers was answered....but not by Cathe. Looks like one of the "Cathe is for advanced exercisers and if you're not, too bad" folks took it upon herself to answer. I just wonder how much business Cathe would lose if only the advanced folks who never modify bought her.I didn't want to post this on the forum because I don't want to tick off a nybody.--------------------------------------------------------end Quote
Good Luck Cj5. I hope you do find a Cathe video that works for you. Give the intensity videos a chance! They are a challenge for all of us.
Have we ever considered....
That we all might be a little bit guilty of singing Cathe's praises to people we know are not ready for her videos? I have been doing Cathe's tapes in order since Mega Step Blast. Now I have been known to be a little bit anal :7 , but never once did I buy a new Cathe video without it's predecessor in my library. Doing the tapes in order made it a breeze to transition through each new workout with little to no rewinds necessary.
Cathe is a wonderful instructor, mentor, and virtual friend. Therefore, we visit other fitness websites gushing about her workouts and leading a novice stepper or weight lifter down a path they are not yet ready to tackle. These new folks can't help but feel frustrated about not being able to follow tricky choreography, lift heavier weights, or master proper technique and body awareness.
Before we ask Cathe to provide background modifiers, we should guide the beginner exerciser toward videos that will help them build up to the challenge of a Cathe tape, where they can learn how to modify particular exercises.
Just my .02 - which I have contributed a lot of this past week!
-Roe
That we all might be a little bit guilty of singing Cathe's praises to people we know are not ready for her videos? I have been doing Cathe's tapes in order since Mega Step Blast. Now I have been known to be a little bit anal :7 , but never once did I buy a new Cathe video without it's predecessor in my library. Doing the tapes in order made it a breeze to transition through each new workout with little to no rewinds necessary.
Cathe is a wonderful instructor, mentor, and virtual friend. Therefore, we visit other fitness websites gushing about her workouts and leading a novice stepper or weight lifter down a path they are not yet ready to tackle. These new folks can't help but feel frustrated about not being able to follow tricky choreography, lift heavier weights, or master proper technique and body awareness.
Before we ask Cathe to provide background modifiers, we should guide the beginner exerciser toward videos that will help them build up to the challenge of a Cathe tape, where they can learn how to modify particular exercises.
Just my .02 - which I have contributed a lot of this past week!
-Roe
RE: Have we ever considered....
Well I appreciate some of the nice replies on this thread thank you to those who were willing to be brave and admit that background exercisers would be a nice addition. Also thank you to those who disagreed with me but were very polite doing it. I can see this is an issue that Cathe must be aware of because clearly there are a lot of strong emotions. I guess I launched my first thread with a bang and you are right it will probably be my last. I feel like I was drove out of town pretty good on this one. In any case
I am still very interested in what Cathe would say.
BTW don't worry some people warned me that this forum is like this. But cathe if you are reading this let me just say a few things
1) your audience is getting over 40 and many on VF didn't order any part of your new series but the weights section. When you suggested an all step video there were quite a few people who just wern't up for that change for a reason.
but you know your market and evidently you have two different kind of groups to please as this thread clearly shows. I am surprised that some people think that simply having a background exerciser show modifiers would destroy your core audience.
Don't worry "Advanced exercisers" I won't be reading your thread anymore You have made it perfectly clear that you will dogpile anyone who threaghtens your high intensity mania. I can see why now everyone emailed me because obviously they have been burnt before. Someone mentioned that "modifiers" need to be more vocal on this board. I can see now why they are not.
feel free to jump on one foot to nasium. By the way Roe thanks for your response but truly you must have missed Barbaras "generous" post at the beginning of the thread before she edited it.
No worries I will just go back to the richard simmons tapes as clearly that is the class everyone seems to have put me in
Happy Stepping
I will email Cathe directly and ask for her responce which is what I was hoping for in the first place
Well I appreciate some of the nice replies on this thread thank you to those who were willing to be brave and admit that background exercisers would be a nice addition. Also thank you to those who disagreed with me but were very polite doing it. I can see this is an issue that Cathe must be aware of because clearly there are a lot of strong emotions. I guess I launched my first thread with a bang and you are right it will probably be my last. I feel like I was drove out of town pretty good on this one. In any case
I am still very interested in what Cathe would say.
BTW don't worry some people warned me that this forum is like this. But cathe if you are reading this let me just say a few things
1) your audience is getting over 40 and many on VF didn't order any part of your new series but the weights section. When you suggested an all step video there were quite a few people who just wern't up for that change for a reason.
but you know your market and evidently you have two different kind of groups to please as this thread clearly shows. I am surprised that some people think that simply having a background exerciser show modifiers would destroy your core audience.
Don't worry "Advanced exercisers" I won't be reading your thread anymore You have made it perfectly clear that you will dogpile anyone who threaghtens your high intensity mania. I can see why now everyone emailed me because obviously they have been burnt before. Someone mentioned that "modifiers" need to be more vocal on this board. I can see now why they are not.
feel free to jump on one foot to nasium. By the way Roe thanks for your response but truly you must have missed Barbaras "generous" post at the beginning of the thread before she edited it.
No worries I will just go back to the richard simmons tapes as clearly that is the class everyone seems to have put me in
Happy Stepping
I will email Cathe directly and ask for her responce which is what I was hoping for in the first place
RE: Have we ever considered....
I know you wanted Cathe to respond, but I just HAVE to add my two cents! I agree that it would be helpful if Cathe had background exercisers do low impact versions of high impact moves. But she already gives us more than most workout tapes out there, that I could see why she wouldn't include modifiers. She does suggest modification often, though. Anyway, we all love Cathe, and expect so much of her. I do admit, I sometimes wish for low-impact modifications although I still want Cathe to create her ultra-intense and challenging workouts, which is a tough thing to do!
I know you wanted Cathe to respond, but I just HAVE to add my two cents! I agree that it would be helpful if Cathe had background exercisers do low impact versions of high impact moves. But she already gives us more than most workout tapes out there, that I could see why she wouldn't include modifiers. She does suggest modification often, though. Anyway, we all love Cathe, and expect so much of her. I do admit, I sometimes wish for low-impact modifications although I still want Cathe to create her ultra-intense and challenging workouts, which is a tough thing to do!
RE: Just out of curiousity
CJ
Hello. It bums me out to see that you have had such a negative experience on this board Really, this group is a wonderful, caring and very supportive group of friends. These women (and men) have inspired me to get up at 5:00 a.m. and stick in my Cathe DVD and get a kick butt workout more times than any personal trainer could ever do! Mornings when I really could have hit the snooze 1 million more times, I have thought of each and every one of them... rolling out of bed to do the same set of Cathe videos
I really hope you can see that these ladies were just defending their all time favorite instructor I do not think AnYONE meant any harm to you or meant to hurt your feelings. I hope that you do not leave this board feeling shunned, put down or sad. I also hope you do not return to VF complaining about the board because I don't think anyone meant to hurt you.
Maybe you should just continue the topic with Cathe personally as you mention in the previous message.
Please give the board and this wonderful group of people a chance!
CJ
Hello. It bums me out to see that you have had such a negative experience on this board
Really, this group is a wonderful, caring and very supportive group of friends. These women (and men) have inspired me to get up at 5:00 a.m. and stick in my Cathe DVD and get a kick butt workout more times than any personal trainer could ever do! Mornings when I really could have hit the snooze 1 million more times, I have thought of each and every one of them... rolling out of bed to do the same set of Cathe videos I really hope you can see that these ladies were just defending their all time favorite instructor
I do not think AnYONE meant any harm to you or meant to hurt your feelings. I hope that you do not leave this board feeling shunned, put down or sad. I also hope you do not return to VF complaining about the board because I don't think anyone meant to hurt you. Maybe you should just continue the topic with Cathe personally as you mention in the previous message.
Please give the board and this wonderful group of people a chance!
Jilliana22
Cathlete
Sorry you feel this way....
C.J. BTW that's my nickname. I just had to throw my 2 cents in here. I read your orginal post and those following and I know that you were asking Cathe a question and in no way at all attacking her or her work, so I'm not sure why people felt the need to be "defensive" of Cathe. I too agree with you that a low-impact background person would be helpful to those of us that just don't feel like trying to come up with our own modifications.
I do agree Cathe does have a "niche" market. However, I disagree that it is this market and none other that have contributed to her financial success. I do agree that us low-impacters do kind of get lost in the fray or just silenced all together, and its very unfortunate.
I don't believe having a background modifier takes away from anything and not everyone wants to buy the older Cathe videos just to learn the choreography I know I don't and haven't. I know Cathe does offer modification tips (PS, S&H, Power Hour) of course these are strength and muscluar endurance tapes and no way shape or form help with modifications for say Rhythmic Step. Anyway, I just wanted to say I understand where you were coming from and its unfortunate that you were left such a bad taste in your mouth. I personally do hope you decide to stick around as all opinions and points of views are welcome here (although it may not seem like it) so please do give the forum a second chance.
C.J. BTW that's my nickname. I just had to throw my 2 cents in here. I read your orginal post and those following and I know that you were asking Cathe a question and in no way at all attacking her or her work, so I'm not sure why people felt the need to be "defensive" of Cathe. I too agree with you that a low-impact background person would be helpful to those of us that just don't feel like trying to come up with our own modifications.
I do agree Cathe does have a "niche" market. However, I disagree that it is this market and none other that have contributed to her financial success. I do agree that us low-impacters do kind of get lost in the fray or just silenced all together, and its very unfortunate.
I don't believe having a background modifier takes away from anything and not everyone wants to buy the older Cathe videos just to learn the choreography I know I don't and haven't. I know Cathe does offer modification tips (PS, S&H, Power Hour) of course these are strength and muscluar endurance tapes and no way shape or form help with modifications for say Rhythmic Step. Anyway, I just wanted to say I understand where you were coming from and its unfortunate that you were left such a bad taste in your mouth. I personally do hope you decide to stick around as all opinions and points of views are welcome here (although it may not seem like it) so please do give the forum a second chance.
Barbara P
Cathlete
RE: Have we ever considered....
>Well I appreciate some of the nice replies on this thread
>thank you to those who were willing to be brave and admit that
>background exercisers would be a nice addition. Also thank
>you to those who disagreed with me but were very polite doing
>it. I can see this is an issue that Cathe must be aware of
>because clearly there are a lot of strong emotions. I guess I
>launched my first thread with a bang and you are right it will
>probably be my last. I feel like I was drove out of town
>pretty good on this one. In any case
>
> I am still very interested in what Cathe would say.
>
>BTW don't worry some people warned me that this forum is like
>this. But cathe if you are reading this let me just say a few
>things
>
>1) your audience is getting over 40 and many on VF didn't
>order any part of your new series but the weights section.
>When you suggested an all step video there were quite a few
>people who just wern't up for that change for a reason.
>
>but you know your market and evidently you have two different
>kind of groups to please as this thread clearly shows. I am
>surprised that some people think that simply having a
>background exerciser show modifiers would destroy your core
>audience.
>
>Don't worry "Advanced exercisers" I won't be reading your
>thread anymore You have made it perfectly clear that you will
>dogpile anyone who threaghtens your high intensity mania. I
>can see why now everyone emailed me because obviously they
>have been burnt before. Someone mentioned that "modifiers"
>need to be more vocal on this board. I can see now why they
>are not.
>
>feel free to jump on one foot to nasium. By the way Roe
>thanks for your response but truly you must have missed
>Barbaras "generous" post at the beginning of the thread before
>she edited it.
>
>No worries I will just go back to the richard simmons tapes as
>clearly that is the class everyone seems to have put me in
>
>Happy Stepping
>I will email Cathe directly and ask for her responce which is
>what I was hoping for in the first place>>
CJ I don't think you're being dogpiled, people are just giving their opinions. Your opinion is that Cathe should have background modifiers, and others is that it is not necessary, no one is calling you stupid (that I saw).
I'm also confused about my "generous" post before I edited it? Are you talking about me? I didn't edit my post. Please explain.
I also was not putting you in the Richard Simmons class (I'm the one who mentioned him) I was using him strictly as an example.
Barbara P
>Well I appreciate some of the nice replies on this thread
>thank you to those who were willing to be brave and admit that
>background exercisers would be a nice addition. Also thank
>you to those who disagreed with me but were very polite doing
>it. I can see this is an issue that Cathe must be aware of
>because clearly there are a lot of strong emotions. I guess I
>launched my first thread with a bang and you are right it will
>probably be my last. I feel like I was drove out of town
>pretty good on this one. In any case
>
> I am still very interested in what Cathe would say.
>
>BTW don't worry some people warned me that this forum is like
>this. But cathe if you are reading this let me just say a few
>things
>
>1) your audience is getting over 40 and many on VF didn't
>order any part of your new series but the weights section.
>When you suggested an all step video there were quite a few
>people who just wern't up for that change for a reason.
>
>but you know your market and evidently you have two different
>kind of groups to please as this thread clearly shows. I am
>surprised that some people think that simply having a
>background exerciser show modifiers would destroy your core
>audience.
>
>Don't worry "Advanced exercisers" I won't be reading your
>thread anymore You have made it perfectly clear that you will
>dogpile anyone who threaghtens your high intensity mania. I
>can see why now everyone emailed me because obviously they
>have been burnt before. Someone mentioned that "modifiers"
>need to be more vocal on this board. I can see now why they
>are not.
>
>feel free to jump on one foot to nasium. By the way Roe
>thanks for your response but truly you must have missed
>Barbaras "generous" post at the beginning of the thread before
>she edited it.
>
>No worries I will just go back to the richard simmons tapes as
>clearly that is the class everyone seems to have put me in
>
>Happy Stepping
>I will email Cathe directly and ask for her responce which is
>what I was hoping for in the first place>>
CJ I don't think you're being dogpiled, people are just giving their opinions. Your opinion is that Cathe should have background modifiers, and others is that it is not necessary, no one is calling you stupid (that I saw).
I'm also confused about my "generous" post before I edited it? Are you talking about me? I didn't edit my post. Please explain.
I also was not putting you in the Richard Simmons class (I'm the one who mentioned him) I was using him strictly as an example.
Barbara P
FitnessGoddess
Cathlete
RE: Have we ever considered....
"I'm also confused about my "generous" post before I edited it? Are you talking about me? I didn't edit my post. Please explain.
I also was not putting you in the Richard Simmons class (I'm the one who mentioned him) I was using him strictly as an example.
Barbara P"
No, Barbara, I think she is referring to me. I decided not to post my response & sent it to CJ privately because I knew this thread would go down the rat hole. I sent her a private e-mail to try to explain what I was trying to say initially, that apparently others took as an "exclusionist" post. I don't feel that way at all. Cathe shows modifications & gives form pointers. I don't think it will detract or add value to her tapes. I sent this to CJ before Kathy or Barbara responded to the thread. In fact, had posted it & came back in to delete it because as I said in my e-mail I wasn't looking to start a flame war. CJ apparently had other ideas--some people just want to stir the pot (which I am guilty of from time to time).
Here's what I had to say to CJ...I am posting it here for all to read. I tried to keep it civil...
I just can't even believe that my post was taken as "if you're not, too bad." Cathe herself has responded to this type of question several times over the year and a half that I've been using her tapes. Do a search & you will find a ton of modification questions & answers. She has also responded that this type of video was a business decision that has her business where she is & it is why she is one of the top exercise video producers today--without mass marketing (which I further discuss below).
It's a shame people are so nasty about things they are afraid of (the person that sent you the e-mail, not you). I did not take your response as nasty but apparently the person sending you the e-mail has a chip on his/her shoulder because they can't rise to the challenge that Cathe so eloquently puts before us. If those people gave her a chance they might find that her tapes aren't all that hard to begin with. Or they may find that she just isn't their style regardless of modifications or form pointers. You can't please all people all the time.
Personally, I used the Firm for 3 years. I learned of Cathe & was terrified that her tapes would be "too advanced." I jumped on them with an open mind that I would have to teach myself the some modifications. I found that I didn't have to teach myself all that much--she provided enough imformation that I am now able to do most of her tapes without modifications. It’s a shame some people will post things that they aren't fully aware of or have full knowledge of.
The other thing is that Cathe provides her forums for us to share information. I wonder how many of those people that you mention have even bothered to come over here to do a search or post asking for help in modifying any particular exercise. The forum is full of those types of questions everyday.
I want to ask "alienate half the market," how? A little lesson in marketing here (sorry my current soap box), considering that her target market is the advanced exerciser, that is her "market" not the intermediate or beginner exerciser that cannot properly perform the exercises or have enough knowledge of exercise to know how to modify them. Therefore, I doubt she has alienated half the market. If my post is read properly (I went back & checked) I talk about how almost ALL of Cathe's tapes show modifications or discuss them. So, I'm confused as to how you or others have determined that Cathe has alienated anyone by not providing modifications or form pointers. Her tapes provide the best form pointers in the market from what I've read about the other popular exercise leads.
As for those individuals that don't want to "jump on one leg," unfortunately, that is part of the nature of the cardio Cathe provides. The packaging tells you it they are high impact, high intensity workouts. High impact means jumping. Cathe does show modifications on these movements in every video. Not wanting to jump on one leg, can be modified to balancing on one leg & exaggerating the arm movements Cathe uses with that move. Personally, that is what I do because I CAN'T jump due to back issues. So, I've either used modifications that Cathe shows or made up my own. But because I wanted to break that plateau from being an intermediate exerciser, I found my way to get over it.
Some people just want an excuse. You know what I mean?
I'm sorry to have gotten on my soap box but your post had many issues that I wanted to address. I started to post this on the forum but didn't want to start a flame war on Cathe's forum--with you or anyone else for that matter.
Deborah
AKA FitnessGoddess
"I'm also confused about my "generous" post before I edited it? Are you talking about me? I didn't edit my post. Please explain.
I also was not putting you in the Richard Simmons class (I'm the one who mentioned him) I was using him strictly as an example.
Barbara P"
No, Barbara, I think she is referring to me. I decided not to post my response & sent it to CJ privately because I knew this thread would go down the rat hole. I sent her a private e-mail to try to explain what I was trying to say initially, that apparently others took as an "exclusionist" post. I don't feel that way at all. Cathe shows modifications & gives form pointers. I don't think it will detract or add value to her tapes. I sent this to CJ before Kathy or Barbara responded to the thread. In fact, had posted it & came back in to delete it because as I said in my e-mail I wasn't looking to start a flame war. CJ apparently had other ideas--some people just want to stir the pot (which I am guilty of from time to time).
Here's what I had to say to CJ...I am posting it here for all to read. I tried to keep it civil...
I just can't even believe that my post was taken as "if you're not, too bad." Cathe herself has responded to this type of question several times over the year and a half that I've been using her tapes. Do a search & you will find a ton of modification questions & answers. She has also responded that this type of video was a business decision that has her business where she is & it is why she is one of the top exercise video producers today--without mass marketing (which I further discuss below).
It's a shame people are so nasty about things they are afraid of (the person that sent you the e-mail, not you). I did not take your response as nasty but apparently the person sending you the e-mail has a chip on his/her shoulder because they can't rise to the challenge that Cathe so eloquently puts before us. If those people gave her a chance they might find that her tapes aren't all that hard to begin with. Or they may find that she just isn't their style regardless of modifications or form pointers. You can't please all people all the time.
Personally, I used the Firm for 3 years. I learned of Cathe & was terrified that her tapes would be "too advanced." I jumped on them with an open mind that I would have to teach myself the some modifications. I found that I didn't have to teach myself all that much--she provided enough imformation that I am now able to do most of her tapes without modifications. It’s a shame some people will post things that they aren't fully aware of or have full knowledge of.
The other thing is that Cathe provides her forums for us to share information. I wonder how many of those people that you mention have even bothered to come over here to do a search or post asking for help in modifying any particular exercise. The forum is full of those types of questions everyday.
I want to ask "alienate half the market," how? A little lesson in marketing here (sorry my current soap box), considering that her target market is the advanced exerciser, that is her "market" not the intermediate or beginner exerciser that cannot properly perform the exercises or have enough knowledge of exercise to know how to modify them. Therefore, I doubt she has alienated half the market. If my post is read properly (I went back & checked) I talk about how almost ALL of Cathe's tapes show modifications or discuss them. So, I'm confused as to how you or others have determined that Cathe has alienated anyone by not providing modifications or form pointers. Her tapes provide the best form pointers in the market from what I've read about the other popular exercise leads.
As for those individuals that don't want to "jump on one leg," unfortunately, that is part of the nature of the cardio Cathe provides. The packaging tells you it they are high impact, high intensity workouts. High impact means jumping. Cathe does show modifications on these movements in every video. Not wanting to jump on one leg, can be modified to balancing on one leg & exaggerating the arm movements Cathe uses with that move. Personally, that is what I do because I CAN'T jump due to back issues. So, I've either used modifications that Cathe shows or made up my own. But because I wanted to break that plateau from being an intermediate exerciser, I found my way to get over it.
Some people just want an excuse. You know what I mean?
I'm sorry to have gotten on my soap box but your post had many issues that I wanted to address. I started to post this on the forum but didn't want to start a flame war on Cathe's forum--with you or anyone else for that matter.
Deborah
AKA FitnessGoddess
I just love when a topic stirs up this much conversation! I have not seen one post that was down right nasty or mean just posts from people with different opinions, some stronger then others but none with a tone that suggests that anyone is stupid or dumb. I can never understand why people say they won't post again just because people disagree with them. Isn't this why we live in countries ( I am from Canada ) that allows us all to voice our differing opinions without fear? Why would people be afraid to post? Stand up for your opinions! After all it is only words on a page.
When I first started Cathe video's there were many times that all I could do was march in place or do jumping jacks or even just climb up and down on the step. This never discouraged me but gave me incentive to keep going intil that tape became a walk in the park and then onward and upward to the next tape! As some others have suggested start with the early tapes, get to know Cathe's style. There are several other instructors that I use and there have been some tapes I have bought where I just do not care for the style of the instructor. I would not suggest to that instructor that she change things as obviously there are many others who love his/her work! Cathe always tells us to modify when needed and by starting with early tapes I have always found a modification that suits me.
So in Cathe's own words from one of her tapes "take it or leave it" (she was offering advice on how to perform a certain move) but always voice your opinion.
When I first started Cathe video's there were many times that all I could do was march in place or do jumping jacks or even just climb up and down on the step. This never discouraged me but gave me incentive to keep going intil that tape became a walk in the park and then onward and upward to the next tape! As some others have suggested start with the early tapes, get to know Cathe's style. There are several other instructors that I use and there have been some tapes I have bought where I just do not care for the style of the instructor. I would not suggest to that instructor that she change things as obviously there are many others who love his/her work! Cathe always tells us to modify when needed and by starting with early tapes I have always found a modification that suits me.
So in Cathe's own words from one of her tapes "take it or leave it" (she was offering advice on how to perform a certain move) but always voice your opinion.
RE: Have we ever considered....
CJ just some feedback...
Perhaps you could have reworded your topic - "Why no background modifiers" to "question regarding modifiers." A slight difference but it makes a differerence on how your post is accepted. Personally, I think the way you worded it gets folks defensive.
On the web since we can't see expression or hear tone a lot is interpretted from how things are worded.
On S&H there are some modifiers - Cedie does a great job of it. There are also some modifiers on Imax (but personally that gets in the way for me).
CJ just some feedback...
Perhaps you could have reworded your topic - "Why no background modifiers" to "question regarding modifiers." A slight difference but it makes a differerence on how your post is accepted. Personally, I think the way you worded it gets folks defensive.
On the web since we can't see expression or hear tone a lot is interpretted from how things are worded.
On S&H there are some modifiers - Cedie does a great job of it. There are also some modifiers on Imax (but personally that gets in the way for me).
I must respectfully disagree. Several of the posts I have seen posted to CJ have been pointedly rude and defensive.
I am personally very saddened by this whole thread. I think it's a shame that CJ posted a perfectly valid question to Cathe and it created a huge thread with everyone getting defensive.
I really don't understand why so many people felt the need to speculate on why Cathe doesn't include modifiers (why not just let Cathe answer the thread herself?).
There is a lot of defensiveness here about Cathe's workouts. Cathe has wonderful workouts and I do them weekly. THAT'S WHY SHE GETS THESE QUESTIONS. Tons of people love Cathe's workouts and that's why they come here looking for her advice. What could possibly be wrong with that?
And, if you feel CJ is being rude or turning the thread into a flame war, why in the world would you stir the pot by posting any response at all?
I feel badly for Cathe, having to read this thread. I don't think this board needs to be filled with people who have undying loyalty to Cathe. A mix of loyal fans, curious people and those who have questions is natural. Why does everyone get so mad and defensive?
I can't help thinking all of this could be avoided if we let Cathe answer the questions that are addressed to her.
I am personally very saddened by this whole thread. I think it's a shame that CJ posted a perfectly valid question to Cathe and it created a huge thread with everyone getting defensive.
I really don't understand why so many people felt the need to speculate on why Cathe doesn't include modifiers (why not just let Cathe answer the thread herself?).
There is a lot of defensiveness here about Cathe's workouts. Cathe has wonderful workouts and I do them weekly. THAT'S WHY SHE GETS THESE QUESTIONS. Tons of people love Cathe's workouts and that's why they come here looking for her advice. What could possibly be wrong with that?
And, if you feel CJ is being rude or turning the thread into a flame war, why in the world would you stir the pot by posting any response at all?
I feel badly for Cathe, having to read this thread. I don't think this board needs to be filled with people who have undying loyalty to Cathe. A mix of loyal fans, curious people and those who have questions is natural. Why does everyone get so mad and defensive?
I can't help thinking all of this could be avoided if we let Cathe answer the questions that are addressed to her.
kathryn
Cathlete
RE: Have we ever considered....
apparently the person sending you the e-mail has a chip on his/her shoulder because they
>can't rise to the challenge that Cathe so eloquently puts
>before us. If those people gave her a chance they might find
>that her tapes aren't all that hard to begin with. Or they may
>find that she just isn't their style regardless of
>modifications or form pointers. You can't please all people
>all the time.
Deborah,
Just because someone wants to modify a move because there is too much impact for their anatomy, or because they don't like those 180-degree, 360-degree turn moves (I'm more in the second than the first group, since impact can easily be modified on one's own) DOESN'T mean that they are "beginner/intermediate" exercisers. I consider them and myself to be "advanced with modifications".
I have previously suggested that Cathe include one modifier to show high-intensity/low impact alternatives for moves like plyo jacks or some of the turn moves. Other "advanced" instructors do so. I think it doesn't take away from their workout at all.
As for strength tapes, I don't need to see a modification, as I can do that on my own. But with the pace of cardio tapes, it's sometimes harder to think of a modification on the spot. I also don't like to have to think (beyond following the choreography) when I follow a tape (which is why I use video workouts).
I would like to raise the challenge to Cathe to find some high intensity/low impact moves.
apparently the person sending you the e-mail has a chip on his/her shoulder because they
>can't rise to the challenge that Cathe so eloquently puts
>before us. If those people gave her a chance they might find
>that her tapes aren't all that hard to begin with. Or they may
>find that she just isn't their style regardless of
>modifications or form pointers. You can't please all people
>all the time.
Deborah,
Just because someone wants to modify a move because there is too much impact for their anatomy, or because they don't like those 180-degree, 360-degree turn moves (I'm more in the second than the first group, since impact can easily be modified on one's own) DOESN'T mean that they are "beginner/intermediate" exercisers. I consider them and myself to be "advanced with modifications".
I have previously suggested that Cathe include one modifier to show high-intensity/low impact alternatives for moves like plyo jacks or some of the turn moves. Other "advanced" instructors do so. I think it doesn't take away from their workout at all.
As for strength tapes, I don't need to see a modification, as I can do that on my own. But with the pace of cardio tapes, it's sometimes harder to think of a modification on the spot. I also don't like to have to think (beyond following the choreography) when I follow a tape (which is why I use video workouts).
I would like to raise the challenge to Cathe to find some high intensity/low impact moves.
KayM,
I totally AGREE with want you are saying! If Cathe had modifiers in the background of her videos for someone to watch , then that would not stop me from buying her videos.She doesn't have to stop and tell people what the modifier is doing and why.She can just say"this person is here, now watch um"
I to do not understand why sometimes things get blown way out of proportion.I think one of the reasons is b/c when we type something , you never know how someone may take it.Only b/c when you say things in person , you can tell how people mean it by the tone of their voice.In my opinion, it always helps to put a smily face at the end of every sentence
Anyway,I think that this question was addressed to Cathe and probably should have been answered my Cathe.It is quite a valid question of curosity.I don't think any harm was intended by the first post but then is sort of blew up after that See I am smiling....
I totally AGREE with want you are saying! If Cathe had modifiers in the background of her videos for someone to watch , then that would not stop me from buying her videos.She doesn't have to stop and tell people what the modifier is doing and why.She can just say"this person is here, now watch um"
I to do not understand why sometimes things get blown way out of proportion.I think one of the reasons is b/c when we type something , you never know how someone may take it.Only b/c when you say things in person , you can tell how people mean it by the tone of their voice.In my opinion, it always helps to put a smily face at the end of every sentence
Anyway,I think that this question was addressed to Cathe and probably should have been answered my Cathe.It is quite a valid question of curosity.
I don't think any harm was intended by the first post but then is sort of blew up after that See I am smiling....FitnessGoddess
Cathlete
Kathryn, read this with an open mind--I'm not attacking...
Kathryn,
I would like to ask you to go back & re-read what I said. I never said those that can't jump are beginner/intermediate exercisers. In fact, I said I can't do the jumping because of back injury issues. I also said, as you have quoted in your post to me, you can't please all people all the time.
If you take that to mean I'm saying that because you chose to modify that you are a beginner/intermediate exerciser, I'm sorry but that's not what I meant. Word for word, it says some people may choose not to try (modifications) & some may try but not like Cathe's style at all (with or without modifications). In fact, I know plenty of people that don't like her style. That's cool, too. But don't accuse me of saying "if you're not an advanced exerciser too bad" (in the post from CJ5--not your's). I never said that.
I also never said having background modifiers would "destroy" her tapes. In fact what I said was that I didn't think they would detract (from) or add value to her tapes. I was simply pointing out that Cathe does provide information on modifications on ALL her tapes. She just doesn't actually have someone in the background doing it. Would I stop buying her tapes if she put someone in? No. Would it make me buy more? No.
So, again, I wasn't out to start a flame war. I tried to stay out of this in this manner by e-mailing CJ5 privately, but apparently CJ5 had other ideas by saying that Barbara edited when she didn't. Also since she didn't seem to remember with whom she was speaking (one of the problems with only being able to see the exact post you hit reply on); she said she took the claws out on Donna but Donna hadn't even posted until after she took them out on me. Poor Donna is probably sitting there shaking her head wondering what CJ5 was talking about, as Barbara said in her response. So, I assumed it was my e-mail to her that she was referring because I started my e-mail to her that I had started to post but deleted it because I didn't want to start a flame war (I didn't think it necessary to post that part of the e-mail). Maybe I was wrong in assuming she was referring to the e-mail I sent her but she didn't respond to my e-mail in which I CLEARLY stated I didn't think she was hostile to me and that I didn't think she was the one with the chip on her shoulder.
However, CJ5 has responded in a very hostile manner to a lot of good people. She accused us of calling her stupid (yesterday at 4:45). NO ONE SAID THAT! Then in her 8:39 PM post last night..."BTW don't worry some people warned me that this forum is like this." And then "Don't worry "Advanced exercisers" I won't be reading your thread anymore You have made it perfectly clear that you will dogpile anyone who threaghtens your high intensity mania. I can see why now everyone emailed me because obviously they have been burnt before. Someone mentioned that "modifiers" need to be more vocal on this board. I can see now why they are not. feel free to jump on one foot to nasium. By the way Roe thanks for your response but truly you must have missed Barbaras "generous" post at the beginning of the thread before she edited it. No worries I will just go back to the richard simmons tapes as clearly that is the class everyone seems to have put me in."
No one has said that at all. But man she sure was out to bite some heads off!
What we have said (yourself included) & I will say again is that Cathe markets to what she calls the educated crowd. I believe that she means that you probably have enough experience to follow the modifications she shows a few times or to make your own adjstments as necessary.
I'm sorry but I only posted my e-mail to her because I don't see my e-mail to her as having been hostile--I actually sent it to someone that doesn't know me from Adam, who said I should have posted it instead of e-mailing her. The reason I said that I am guilty of stirring the pot is because I have done it on occassion but was not trying to do so here. I was right to try to contact her privately because she has ripped those that have posted on the board up one side & down the other. I was trying to avoid going down the rat hole with her. I should have just left it at that but didn't want Barbara being accused of something she didn't do & I wanted to clear up any misunderstanding.
Honestly, someone said they thought a bunch of people had responded in a hostile manner to CJ5, I have gone back & read & re-read this thread. The only hostility I felt was from her until Cathefan3 really took a wallup! OH MY GOD--WOULD YOU READ THAT ONE! HOLY CRAP! But she is right, CJ5, took this down the rat hole. No one else. (I came back to add -- & I laughed my a$$ of reading that one!). If you're reading CJ5, I'm sorry, I call 'em as I see 'em. I think like runner4fun said, when reading things in writing, we tend to "hear" things that aren't said. Please don't read this with hositility but a calm voice because that is how I'm thinking & if you read with a hostile tone please (seriously, please) go back & read again. I'm not being hostile, just stating my case.
Kathryn,
I would like to ask you to go back & re-read what I said. I never said those that can't jump are beginner/intermediate exercisers. In fact, I said I can't do the jumping because of back injury issues. I also said, as you have quoted in your post to me, you can't please all people all the time.
If you take that to mean I'm saying that because you chose to modify that you are a beginner/intermediate exerciser, I'm sorry but that's not what I meant. Word for word, it says some people may choose not to try (modifications) & some may try but not like Cathe's style at all (with or without modifications). In fact, I know plenty of people that don't like her style. That's cool, too. But don't accuse me of saying "if you're not an advanced exerciser too bad" (in the post from CJ5--not your's). I never said that.
I also never said having background modifiers would "destroy" her tapes. In fact what I said was that I didn't think they would detract (from) or add value to her tapes. I was simply pointing out that Cathe does provide information on modifications on ALL her tapes. She just doesn't actually have someone in the background doing it. Would I stop buying her tapes if she put someone in? No. Would it make me buy more? No.
So, again, I wasn't out to start a flame war. I tried to stay out of this in this manner by e-mailing CJ5 privately, but apparently CJ5 had other ideas by saying that Barbara edited when she didn't. Also since she didn't seem to remember with whom she was speaking (one of the problems with only being able to see the exact post you hit reply on); she said she took the claws out on Donna but Donna hadn't even posted until after she took them out on me. Poor Donna is probably sitting there shaking her head wondering what CJ5 was talking about, as Barbara said in her response. So, I assumed it was my e-mail to her that she was referring because I started my e-mail to her that I had started to post but deleted it because I didn't want to start a flame war (I didn't think it necessary to post that part of the e-mail). Maybe I was wrong in assuming she was referring to the e-mail I sent her but she didn't respond to my e-mail in which I CLEARLY stated I didn't think she was hostile to me and that I didn't think she was the one with the chip on her shoulder.
However, CJ5 has responded in a very hostile manner to a lot of good people. She accused us of calling her stupid (yesterday at 4:45). NO ONE SAID THAT! Then in her 8:39 PM post last night..."BTW don't worry some people warned me that this forum is like this." And then "Don't worry "Advanced exercisers" I won't be reading your thread anymore You have made it perfectly clear that you will dogpile anyone who threaghtens your high intensity mania. I can see why now everyone emailed me because obviously they have been burnt before. Someone mentioned that "modifiers" need to be more vocal on this board. I can see now why they are not. feel free to jump on one foot to nasium. By the way Roe thanks for your response but truly you must have missed Barbaras "generous" post at the beginning of the thread before she edited it. No worries I will just go back to the richard simmons tapes as clearly that is the class everyone seems to have put me in."
No one has said that at all. But man she sure was out to bite some heads off!
What we have said (yourself included) & I will say again is that Cathe markets to what she calls the educated crowd. I believe that she means that you probably have enough experience to follow the modifications she shows a few times or to make your own adjstments as necessary.
I'm sorry but I only posted my e-mail to her because I don't see my e-mail to her as having been hostile--I actually sent it to someone that doesn't know me from Adam, who said I should have posted it instead of e-mailing her. The reason I said that I am guilty of stirring the pot is because I have done it on occassion but was not trying to do so here. I was right to try to contact her privately because she has ripped those that have posted on the board up one side & down the other. I was trying to avoid going down the rat hole with her. I should have just left it at that but didn't want Barbara being accused of something she didn't do & I wanted to clear up any misunderstanding.
Honestly, someone said they thought a bunch of people had responded in a hostile manner to CJ5, I have gone back & read & re-read this thread. The only hostility I felt was from her until Cathefan3 really took a wallup! OH MY GOD--WOULD YOU READ THAT ONE! HOLY CRAP! But she is right, CJ5, took this down the rat hole. No one else. (I came back to add -- & I laughed my a$$ of reading that one!). If you're reading CJ5, I'm sorry, I call 'em as I see 'em. I think like runner4fun said, when reading things in writing, we tend to "hear" things that aren't said. Please don't read this with hositility but a calm voice because that is how I'm thinking & if you read with a hostile tone please (seriously, please) go back & read again. I'm not being hostile, just stating my case.