The whole "choice" thing cracks me up. (meaning the Republicans carrying on about losing your choice and your relationship with your doctor). I work for a great company and have worked for several in the number of years, all with good health care plans. However, I changed jobs a couple of years ago, and as a result, I had to change insurance companies (choice removal #1). My doctor, who I had been seeing for 10 years doesn't take my new company's insurance, so either I pay out of pocket or find a new doctor (choice removal #2). So, old doctor gives me a referral to a new doctor - I call them - they ask, "are you a new patient?" I say yes. They say, "our first appointment for new patients is.....March 2010!!!!!" Are you kidding me? (choice/control removal #3). Now I have to just guess, pick a new doctor, hope they're good, develop a new relationship and see where things go and hope I don't get changed to some new insurance plan I didn't choose. And I have good insurance! Gotta love the current system!! The Republicans (and some Dems) right now are just full of it and themselves!! They haven't got a clue about the real world and it's very, very sad. More sad is I don't really think they care.
Profits Before Patients - A PBS Interview w/Bill Moyers
- Thread starter Lastchance09
- Start date
famousohara
Cathlete
Profits Before Patients . . .
Sparrow13 - you are brilliant in your response. So much so, that there is not much I can add. Something to think about - what is stopping your employer from no longer offering health care coverage that they may be contributing to . . . if they know that a federally funded plan is available to you?????? Reference has been made to private insurance in the new plan - they can continue to provide existing plans, but they would not be allowed to create new plans or add membership. What kind of free market is that? Cash for clunkers - budgeted to run thru 11/1 - ran out of money in 4 days. What does that tell you about how our government is able to estimate costs? How many people are leaving the US to seek care in another country????? How many people are climbing aboard leaky boats and rafts to escape our shores???? Do you know how much Medicare reimburses in relation to what a provider is billing???? Do you know how many Medicaid claims roll across my desk on a daily basis where services were rendered while the member was on a cruise or on vacation???? Do you currently know how much fraud goes on in the programs already available???? I have no qualms about supporting a program that helps someone get on their feet - but I cannot support something that makes people lifelong dependents upon their government. And that dependency spans generations. In the end, we get the government we deserve - I fear for the future.
Mo
Sparrow13 - you are brilliant in your response. So much so, that there is not much I can add. Something to think about - what is stopping your employer from no longer offering health care coverage that they may be contributing to . . . if they know that a federally funded plan is available to you?????? Reference has been made to private insurance in the new plan - they can continue to provide existing plans, but they would not be allowed to create new plans or add membership. What kind of free market is that? Cash for clunkers - budgeted to run thru 11/1 - ran out of money in 4 days. What does that tell you about how our government is able to estimate costs? How many people are leaving the US to seek care in another country????? How many people are climbing aboard leaky boats and rafts to escape our shores???? Do you know how much Medicare reimburses in relation to what a provider is billing???? Do you know how many Medicaid claims roll across my desk on a daily basis where services were rendered while the member was on a cruise or on vacation???? Do you currently know how much fraud goes on in the programs already available???? I have no qualms about supporting a program that helps someone get on their feet - but I cannot support something that makes people lifelong dependents upon their government. And that dependency spans generations. In the end, we get the government we deserve - I fear for the future.
Mo
hiitdogs
Cathlete
This cracks me up too. Choice? What choice? If I have health insurance through my employer and they chose to change insurance carrier, policy, deductible, I don't have a say in that. If I lose my job, I lose my health insurance.
Bureaucrats standing between you and your doctor. What do we have standing between the doctor and us right now? Bureaucrats who only focus is their company's profit.
I saw John McCain, the senator from my home state talk about health insurance and I just wanted to smack him. If he wasn't a politician and get, guess what government health insurance, with his bouts with cancer, he wouldn't be able to get insurance.
The insurance industry spends $ 1.4 Mio per day, yup DAY to lobby congress and try to defeat health care reform. Where do you think that money comes from? The health care they are denying patients and the insurance premiums they keep raising.
I have to get off my soap box, this whole thing makes me so flippin' angry!!!
hiitdogs
Cathlete
I don't know, do you think it is better to be dependent on the whims of a for-profit health insurance? And in the end you get raked over the coals and can't pay your medical bills, file bankruptcy, lose your home ......
How is that for dependency?
In fact there are a lot of people who travel to Germany for cancer treatment, and Germany has guess what - gasp -government health insurance
Thanks, Sparrow
I bet you are all thrilled I am back with statistics and my opinion
Last edited:
sparrow13
Cathlete
Thanks, Sparrow
Hee! How boring would it be if we all agreed?
This topic is much on my mind these days and I like hearing all the opinions. In fact Joe Courtney is holding a town hall meeting this week near where I live. I plan to wander over and hear what he has to say. On PBS, Frontline did an investigation on both Presidential candiates last year. After viewing this broadcast, the election to come made me ill. I respect PBS for the daring broadcast because it revealed things about both men that weren't pretty.
On healthcare, I would seek Bill Moyer and seek PBS for a clear informative newscast on the content.
My Dad being a cancer survivor and retired physican got treatment at Mayo. Through education, my parents dealt with and are dealing with the insurance companies.
Germany has different standards on passing acceptable health treatments than the US, something that should be investigated on an individual basis.
So many viewpoints and so much information floating about is making this topic harder to understand for many people.
On healthcare, I would seek Bill Moyer and seek PBS for a clear informative newscast on the content.
My Dad being a cancer survivor and retired physican got treatment at Mayo. Through education, my parents dealt with and are dealing with the insurance companies.
Germany has different standards on passing acceptable health treatments than the US, something that should be investigated on an individual basis.
So many viewpoints and so much information floating about is making this topic harder to understand for many people.
Lastchance09
Cathlete
It is side splittingly funny that people are using the SUCCESS of Cash for Clunkers as a way to knock down health care. The gov't didn't underestimate cost, they underestimated the success of the program. At the time the stimulus passed - Americans were holding on very tightly to their money and practically hiding it under their mattresses. If anyone should be scared about the results of the Cash for Clunkers program is the health care industry. That industry is afraid of the Public Option. afraid that it might take away their business and it will and I will be over the moon if more people signed up for the Public Option than expected.
One more thing. Those against gov't programs - send back those social security checks when it's your turn to get them, call your congressman and have them abolish medicare, our soldiers? take away their gov't run health care also.
So go ahead, let's continue to allow the private health insurers to jack up our rates 30% every year and providing fewer services and denying payment when you collect. And worried about your employer not offering private insurance if the public option is not available? Insurance prices are going up every year and many businesses will drop it anyway because they can't afford it and if they don't drop it, individual employees will drop it because they can't afford the increase.
Last edited:
I'm totally caught between a rock and hard place. On the one hand, I agree that health care needs an overhaul and that there should be more affordable care available. But on the other hand, I am HORRIFIED that the government is proposing to SOLVE the PROBLEM!! ACK!!!
What exactly have they done that is supposed to give me any confidence in their ability to create a realistic budget and stick to it? Are they known for being so cost-conscious, effecient, and effective? So unbiased and trustworthy? If we all agree that the current health care/insurance CEO's/evil business heads have been manipulating the government to protect the current cash flow, how is having the govenrment in charge of it going to make any difference? These are the same people who have allowed the situation to become what it is in the first place, and we're supposed to have faith that they are going to sell us magical solution. It's out of my ability to imagine.
It bothers me that they don't even know, themselves, what they're going to do, and yet they think I should 'buy in' and give them my support. If it hasn't been written, then how can they stand there and tell me how great it's going to be? How do they know? It feels like they're just dropping test balloons to see what we want to hear them say, instead of doing the hard work of actually FIXING the PROBLEM.
I guess that's what bothers me. It's a huge problem and one that affects EVERYONE, and we have a bunch of amateurs running around yammering about how great their solution is going to be. I'd like to think that an issue of this magnitude would be given a little more research and testing before we fling it at the masses.
What exactly have they done that is supposed to give me any confidence in their ability to create a realistic budget and stick to it? Are they known for being so cost-conscious, effecient, and effective? So unbiased and trustworthy? If we all agree that the current health care/insurance CEO's/evil business heads have been manipulating the government to protect the current cash flow, how is having the govenrment in charge of it going to make any difference? These are the same people who have allowed the situation to become what it is in the first place, and we're supposed to have faith that they are going to sell us magical solution. It's out of my ability to imagine.
It bothers me that they don't even know, themselves, what they're going to do, and yet they think I should 'buy in' and give them my support. If it hasn't been written, then how can they stand there and tell me how great it's going to be? How do they know? It feels like they're just dropping test balloons to see what we want to hear them say, instead of doing the hard work of actually FIXING the PROBLEM.
I guess that's what bothers me. It's a huge problem and one that affects EVERYONE, and we have a bunch of amateurs running around yammering about how great their solution is going to be. I'd like to think that an issue of this magnitude would be given a little more research and testing before we fling it at the masses.
hiitdogs
Cathlete
I understand that concern! And in fact, I do share it. OTOH, what aggrevates me even more is that we are being told right now by those politicians who want to prevent health care reform how great our current system is and how we are the envy of the world. I think they been prescribed hallucinogenics by their government health insurance paid health care providers
Their focus is on the profit of the health care industry because of the money they get from them for their re-election campaign, whereas they should focus on the benefit of the people who elect them - us!
With their stubborn naysaying and not coming up with an alternative, they are just trying to block and preserve the status quo. How is that acceptable?
OTOH I am really afraid they will be coming up with some stupid a$$, half baked bill to satisfy the naysayers and protect the insurance industry so they can get the votes and it will be a disaster.
Carola has many fine points, I just want to add that I have seen many of my friends lately getting in health insurance trouble because they are reaching the 'lifetime cap' of our corporate sponsored insurance. It is 1M, but as Carola illustrated, one course of cancer treatment will bring you up to 300K very quickly. What about if you have a baby or two, then find out you have cancer? Eek, big trouble coming. If you have a cancer diagnosis, or any other major illness, the last thing you need to worry about is your freakin' health insurance Just my opinion.
I work for a huge corporation and they are eliminating all health insurance options except for this one plan which has the lifetime cap. I am currently in that plan, but for others who are not, I don't know what will happen to them and their families when they are moved over to this plan. If they are currently in treatment, is that a 'previous condition'? I don't know. So many questions, so few answers.
I have had gov't insurance in this country through the military, and through the Canadian govt when I was a military visitor up there. No insurance is perfect, but there has to be something to protect us from having to decide if we go bankrupt and live, or die without treatment.
Just my opinion. I work for a huge corporation and they are eliminating all health insurance options except for this one plan which has the lifetime cap. I am currently in that plan, but for others who are not, I don't know what will happen to them and their families when they are moved over to this plan. If they are currently in treatment, is that a 'previous condition'? I don't know. So many questions, so few answers.
I have had gov't insurance in this country through the military, and through the Canadian govt when I was a military visitor up there. No insurance is perfect, but there has to be something to protect us from having to decide if we go bankrupt and live, or die without treatment.
Lastchance09
Cathlete
Goodness why so hostile? All kinds of insults and nasty comments in there, when you don't even know me or what I believe - or how I came to believe it. I could tell you more about who I am, what I believe and where I like to get my information but you've already determined who I am and painted such a colorful picture of me as a drooling idjit that I think I will just sit back and enjoy being that for a while. I rarely get the chance to take a load off.
Really though, what's tiresome to me is that our hostility has become so predictable! Anyone who doesn't agree with Obama is OF COURSE a drooling, FOX news obsessed automaton. Please people, think "originality" when insulting others! It softens the blow.
All the Bill Moyer fans will be happy to know that I don't dislike him quite as much since I've had my coffee. Woot!
OK, I am off to drool and practice being an idjit for a while.
You get one chance to make a first impression. And you made yours. I claimed you got your information from FOX because they are often the ones who start the very same arguments you made. Then it reaches conservative radio and then to it's audience who tell their friends and then their co-workers. It's all one big circle. Health insurance industry to members of Congress to the media and then to it's audience who tells their friends/co-workers-family members. I am less concerned with what you think and very angry at the garbage and lies that are being told about health care reform. I'm not some activist going on a rant here, I am unemployed, uninsured and I am sick and tired of these lies that will cost people their lives. What's going on in the health care industry is wrong - just morally wrong. Anyone trying to stop it is just wrong. Plain wrong.
If you want to argue against health care reform - provide facts, numbers, official documents not beliefs based on fear.
LauraMax
Cathlete
Govmt run health care isn't so frightening. Medicare seems to work very well. I know my dad was in a heart hospital in a coma for a week last year, after going into cardiac arrest 7 times in 3 hours. Everything from soup to nuts was covered. His hospital bill was upward of $1 mil & he ended up with a bill for less than $10K. $10K is still a lot, but the man would be living out of a box (or worse--for him anyway--with me!) if it wasn't for a govmt run healthcare system.
Edit: the coma was a week long, but his hospital stay was more than a month. His physical therapy, home health care & meds were also covered.
Edit: the coma was a week long, but his hospital stay was more than a month. His physical therapy, home health care & meds were also covered.
sparrow13
Cathlete
I'm sorry you are unemployed and uninsured. My husband and I are struggling financially and I know how hideous and draining it can be.
As for first impressions, well, I've been on this board for quite some time and I guess I assume most here know the tone of my posts, sometimes snarky but never, I hope, rude or insulting. I didn't realize you were a relatively new member. Sorry to get off on the wrong foot!
In my last job, I worked with coordinating medical benefits, and that's given me a different view of Medicare. Sometimes the cut-offs and run-around were enough to make me want to rip my hair out in frustration. And I'm a healthy, educated person with time to dedicate (since it was my job). I couldn't imagine how a regular older person who was sick would be able to get all of the coverage they were entitled to. My answer is that they probably don't.
I also saw enough fraud to turn me off of the system - overmedicating and ordering unnecessary tests (some of which were never even done) solely because they knew Medicare would cover it, extending stays to exactly the limit of the number of days, or, conversely, prematurely discharging a person because the limit had been reached. If you go into the system on your own (i.e. without an involved family member or patient advocate to monitor and witness) it can turn into a whole 'nother world in some cases.
I also saw enough fraud to turn me off of the system - overmedicating and ordering unnecessary tests (some of which were never even done) solely because they knew Medicare would cover it, extending stays to exactly the limit of the number of days, or, conversely, prematurely discharging a person because the limit had been reached. If you go into the system on your own (i.e. without an involved family member or patient advocate to monitor and witness) it can turn into a whole 'nother world in some cases.
Alana_as
Cathlete
I know I might be stupid for doing this....but I can't stand listening to the politicians/news stations/ heck...even the president! there's so much crap out there it drives me nuts and drives me away to even LISTEN to whats going on in america.
I just can't bring myself to watch or listen to such people on tv/radio anymore. Is there a way I can put my two cents in without getting upset everytime I watch the news?
....but I can't stand listening to the politicians/news stations/ heck...even the president! there's so much crap out there it drives me nuts and drives me away to even LISTEN to whats going on in america.I just can't bring myself to watch or listen to such people on tv/radio anymore. Is there a way I can put my two cents in without getting upset everytime I watch the news?
LauraMax
Cathlete
Grace, isn't there an awful lot of fraud now w/private insurance cos. as well? I mean, I can't speak to the internal workings of Medicare, but we weren't able to advocate for my dad--we were basket cases b/c we were told he wasn't gonna make it. We were really scared of what would & wouldn't be covered & SO relieved when we got the final bill. What you described sounds like it's more of an issue w/docs than w/Medicare. It'd be interesting to see whether reform would alleviate some of this or make it worse.