hiitdogs
Cathlete
It wasn't meant offensive, I am sorry if it came across that way.
Profits Before Patients - A PBS Interview w/Bill Moyers
- Thread starter Lastchance09
- Start date
It wasn't meant offensive, I am sorry if it came across that way.
Lastchance09
Cathlete
What's controversial is not necessarily crazy and I do not understand what part of the bill that does not yet exist is crazy. What bill are you reading. Please don't tell me it's the one going around mentioning ACORN and illegal aliens.
All the things you listed he should focus on - he has stated over and over that that is what he wants.
Controversial in this country, means something we need to do and face but don't have the guts or the political will to do it. You don't throw out stuff that could save billions of dollars because it's controversial. If it came to taking some heat in the short term vs. saving billions of dollars in the long term, Obama is smart enough to choose the latter.
sparrow13
Cathlete
Carola, no big deal. I enjoy your posts, just stressed out and being a little too sensitive today.
Lastchance09
Cathlete
I wasn't trying to insult you Sparrow, but it is extremely important to know the political habits of anyone who comments on any issue.
Ffte
Cathlete
I haven't gotten through this thread yet and someone else may have given the link already, but here is a link for those of you who want to read it yourself.....
http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
Happy reading.
All 1000+ pages of it....
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I'm going to agree wiht Lastchance here. Health care reform is a very complicated issue; if it was easy it would have been done already. Some of the "controversial" provisions are not really controversial at all, i.e. providing reimbursement for voluntary discussions about living wills. This is a made up controversy by many Republicans who have in the past supported such measures. As an attorney, my firm does living wills or advance directives all of the time and advise our estate planning clients to have them so that they can make their own decisions while they are in a state of mind to do it. I have never considered this controversial at all. Also I don't consider myself as part of a "death panel."
It is important to note that as far as I can tell the right has done nothing but pick the health care proposals apart. Despite claims many months ago by Rep. Boehner that the Republicans would be presenting an alternative, they have not presented one. It is easy to take provisions out of a bill and try and "make hay" out of it; it is quite another to come up with a plan yourself. Not critizing you Republican voters out there, just the elected reps.
We've heard that the Republicans are running campaigns against heathcare reform by using the National Heath Service (NHS) example, calling it an evil socialist system. Where do they research the NHS? I have to say that most people in the UK are furious with the Republican party because of the lies they are spreading about our system.
Many of the people on the campaign weren't aware that they were being interviewd with the sole purpose to rubbish the NHS.
Let me clarify something : everyone in the UK (children, women, elderly, sane ,insane etc...) are entitled to FREEEEE healthcare
Olga
Many of the people on the campaign weren't aware that they were being interviewd with the sole purpose to rubbish the NHS.
Let me clarify something : everyone in the UK (children, women, elderly, sane ,insane etc...) are entitled to FREEEEE healthcare
Olga
My inlaws live in the UK and they are quite elderly and ill. The receive very good care and don't pay a dime. As for my personal story, when I was visiting France a couple of years ago I ended up on the ER for a UTI (very painful). I did not wait for a single minute for an exam room, I saw a doc., got labs done and walked out with a prescription. When I asked for the bill the doc said simply "have a great vacation." Now, I'm not advocating a single payer system here in the U.S. but neither are the Democrats; the public option is just that an "option." The CBO has stated that it will not lead to the demise of the private health insurance system. Those who are lobbying so hard against reform are really doing it for two reasons: 1) Stop Obama from succeeding; and 2) keep the health insurance companies profits going strong.
As a Brit the NHS is a national treasure. It is not perfect what system is. Its paid for via taxation and is rationed. However if you are fit and healthy you do not go near the doctor. In 1948 the then Labour goverment set up the NHS. Prior to this if you could pay you did PAY what you could afford. After 1948 private medicine declined. Private hospitals offering USA style medicine are to be found mostly near London. If you are are in a bad accident first point of access is the NHS. The ho-ha with the USA medicine is the corporations and drug companies who make megadosh BIG BUCKS will be reigned in. The socialist medicine is alot of claptrap rubbish. We live ia free society, found out our politicans are corrupt. Next election in the UK will be PUNISHMENT big time for Labour. All politicans know that the NHS is a scared cow to thw British people. If countries like the UK , Australia can provide some form of health care to cover major accidents and control drug companies then the USA can as well.
I have satelite and have followed this debate closely via Fox, CNN,NBC. Its interesting to see the various view points from around the world on this debate. News in the USA is sensationalised, personalised to get hte ratings as the advertisers fund the stations.
The shouting from the right wing is a fear target to SCARE and divide the nation. When our politicans shout SCARE tactics we do not believe because politicans in the UK at present are viewed as feathering their own nests at the taxpayers expense.
You should be asking the question :-
Those who are shouting what are they going to loose?
Do politicans against health care provision actually care bout he voters?
Do drug companies actually control USA medicine?
I have satelite and have followed this debate closely via Fox, CNN,NBC. Its interesting to see the various view points from around the world on this debate. News in the USA is sensationalised, personalised to get hte ratings as the advertisers fund the stations.
The shouting from the right wing is a fear target to SCARE and divide the nation. When our politicans shout SCARE tactics we do not believe because politicans in the UK at present are viewed as feathering their own nests at the taxpayers expense.
You should be asking the question :-
Those who are shouting what are they going to loose?
Do politicans against health care provision actually care bout he voters?
Do drug companies actually control USA medicine?
I just saw this article on MSNBC about NHS rebutting some of the claims the conservatives in the US have been making:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32398952/ns/world_news-europe/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32398952/ns/world_news-europe/
LauraMax
Cathlete
OK, can I just tell you getting my hands on a copy of this bill is driving me crazy! Thanks for the link Dawn, you're very kind , but when I tried to open it my computer kind of crashed so I had to reboot & am afraid to try it again. I went to the White House's website & they have no phone number. I went to DHHS website, got their phone #, & they gave me the phone number to the Health Care Reform office. I called HCR office & got voice mail.
I'm starting to think I'LL be on Medicare by the time I get a copy of this bill!
BTW, to avoid any confusion about which bill, it's the one that the Obama administration sent to the House for introduction.
, but when I tried to open it my computer kind of crashed so I had to reboot & am afraid to try it again. I went to the White House's website & they have no phone number. I went to DHHS website, got their phone #, & they gave me the phone number to the Health Care Reform office. I called HCR office & got voice mail. I'm starting to think I'LL be on Medicare by the time I get a copy of this bill!
BTW, to avoid any confusion about which bill, it's the one that the Obama administration sent to the House for introduction.
sparrow13
Cathlete
Ffte
Cathlete
OK, can I just tell you getting my hands on a copy of this bill is driving me crazy! Thanks for the link Dawn, you're very kind
I'm starting to think I'LL be on Medicare by the time I get a copy of this bill!
BTW, to avoid any confusion about which bill, it's the one that the Obama administration sent to the House for introduction.
Hmmm... The link works fine for me it opens a pdf within the webpage itself. Anyone else have problems with it?
It looks like the same info based on my quick peek. Funny thing is my firefox locked up with the Thomas library link but I was able to recover and pull it up the second time....
I personally find the format of the PDF a bit easier to read. Not that it's easy reading mind you.
Anyway to copy the first page of the bill I linked to:
"
.....................................................................
(Original Signature of Member)
111TH CONGRESS
1ST SESSION H. R. ll
To provide affordable, quality health care for all Americans and reduce
the growth in health care spending, and for other purposes.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Mr. DINGELL (for himself, Mr. RANGEL, Mr. WAXMAN, Mr. GEORGE MILLER
of California, Mr. STARK, Mr. PALLONE, and Mr. ANDREWS) introduced
the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on
lllllllllllllll
A BILL
To provide affordable, quality health care for all Americans
and reduce the growth in health care spending, and
for other purposes.
1 Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representa2
tives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
3 SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE; TABLE OF DIVISIONS, TITLES,
4 AND SUBTITLES.
5 (a) SHORT TITLE.—This Act may be cited as the
6 ‘‘America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009’’.
"
It looks like the same info based on my quick peek. Funny thing is my firefox locked up with the Thomas library link but I was able to recover and pull it up the second time....
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Ffte
Cathlete
BTW the link I posted is 1018 pages if you feel brave enough to try it again, but to me the link Sparrow sent looks like it includes the same info based on a quick glance.Hmmm it's hard to tell. I don't know if it's comprehensive b/c you can't tell how many pages.
I'll print a few sections for some w/e reading. We'll see how it goes.
Thanks Sparrow! (I think LOL)
dorothyrd
Cathlete
Hmmm it's hard to tell. I don't know if it's comprehensive b/c you can't tell how many pages.
I'll print a few sections for some w/e reading. We'll see how it goes.
Thanks Sparrow! (I think LOL)
Laura, I think my PDF had 1018 pages and is probably what you are looking for.
kathryn
Cathlete
"Kostric insisted his intentions were peaceful,..."
Oh, and quotes about shedding blood.
Ugh.
Even 'funnier': in the Chris Matthew's interview with him (at the bottom of the page I linked to) when Matthews asked him if 2000 armed people would make the gathering safer, he said "of course".