(Please don't flame me) Question on the health ins

[double t]

Completely completely agree. In most cases, I don't think millionaires work harder than those making minimum wage. I have quite a few millionaire clients and they have cushy jobs in big financial firms or law firms and take long lunches and go on vacation a lot. I have seen young associates in law firms put in fairly long hours but probably not longer than a poor woman working 2 jobs trying to feed her kids. Most wealthy people have had the benefits of education to slot them into the top-paying jobs, or they have been clever enough to invent Pet Rocks or whatever else America wants to purchase in mass quantities. But as far as hard work? I worked the hardest of any job of my life when I was a teenager working at fast food places for minimum wage scrubbing the chicken fryers and sweeping and mopping. I now work in a nice law firm with a pretty good salary and benefits. I am not working harder for my larger salary. The difference is I had a better education, which fortunately my mom could pay for, which enabled me to do a different job than a minimum wage job.

The people who come in to clean the office at night work very hard and I do not mind at all paying a larger chunk of my taxes so there will be some social programs to protect them.

Does anyone really think that Bill Gates works much harder than guys digging ditches? He has so much money he could probably pay for the health insurance package himself. I do not agree that he should keep every penny of his income because somehow he has "earned" it by working harder than anyone else.

You're employing class warfare in attacking Gates. Seems to me the guy must have busted his butt to get where he is. He must have some kind of motivation and intelligence to get where he is. Would u agree? You don't think he worked hard? Just because the result has made him rich? Just because he is at a point where he doesn't have to do manual labor and he can use his brain instead of muscles everday? Guys like him provide jobs to people like us. And you want to penalize people like that for their successes? All that will do is make them less motivated to build companies. I don't agree that's a good thing.
Perhaps guys digging ditches should aim higher in life. Maybe that's our problem. Granted, not all people can be owners of highly successful companies for various reasons but having people sucking off the government forever guarantees that they will never try to get to the next level.
I'll add that Cathe owns her own company. She doesn't dig ditches. Do you think she works hard? Do you think she deserves to own her own company?

 

[BuffyR]

Buffy---sorry I missed your post above.
See the Cornhusker Kickback, the Louisiana Purchase...and Gator Aid, among others. These are basically bribes to get votes.
I've also heard future jobs have been promised but I guess we'll see if that occurs. Happens in many admins but just because Obama does it doesn't make it ok.

Cornhusker Kickback and Gator Aid are out of the bill. The Lousiana deal has to do fixing Medicaid funding because when so much money was pumped into Lousiana after Katrina it appeared (on paper) that incomes went up 40% so Medicaid funding was cut. There are still alot of people in Lousiana who are quite poor and need help so this deal was meant to fix that problem. How is it a bribe if it is not for personal gain but being used to fix a problem that was created by paperwork? Just because its on Fox doesn't mean its factual.

 

[double t]

Cornhusker Kickback and Gator Aid are out of the bill. The Lousiana deal has to do fixing Medicaid funding because when so much money was pumped into Lousiana after Katrina it appeared (on paper) that incomes went up 40% so Medicaid funding was cut. There are still alot of people in Lousiana who are quite poor and need help so this deal was meant to fix that problem. How is it a bribe if it is not for personal gain but being used to fix a problem that was created by paperwork? Just because its on Fox doesn't mean its factual.

Out of the bill.....AFTER it was passed using the votes gained by making those promises to Congressman. lol

 

[BuffyR]

I wondered how long it would take for someone to bring the war into it. Old tired argument, we are talking about the future and what this will cost. It will NOT reduce the deficit, and it will cost much, much more than they are projecting, history is on our side showing that. In fact recent history.. it took only 4 years in Massachusetts to spend 3 times as much as they originally projected. Really, do you actually believe the dollar numbers they tell you?

I think that it will create lots, and lots of jobs.....government jobs on our tax dollar. No way this can be implemented and run without lots and lots of new government entities and jobs. Just wait and see.

I brought up the war in response to someone's complaint about spending. Just wondering why the same critics did not complain about the massive deficit spending for 8 years of Bush.

The CBO estimates say it will reduce the deficit. I'm not an expert but they are.

 

[Kettlecorn]

Completely completely agree. In most cases, I don't think millionaires work harder than those making minimum wage. I have quite a few millionaire clients and they have cushy jobs in big financial firms or law firms and take long lunches and go on vacation a lot. I have seen young associates in law firms put in fairly long hours but probably not longer than a poor woman working 2 jobs trying to feed her kids. Most wealthy people have had the benefits of education to slot them into the top-paying jobs, or they have been clever enough to invent Pet Rocks or whatever else America wants to purchase in mass quantities. But as far as hard work? I worked the hardest of any job of my life when I was a teenager working at fast food places for minimum wage scrubbing the chicken fryers and sweeping and mopping. I now work in a nice law firm with a pretty good salary and benefits. I am not working harder for my larger salary. The difference is I had a better education, which fortunately my mom could pay for, which enabled me to do a different job than a minimum wage job.

The people who come in to clean the office at night work very hard and I do not mind at all paying a larger chunk of my taxes so there will be some social programs to protect them.

Does anyone really think that Bill Gates works much harder than guys digging ditches? He has so much money he could probably pay for the health insurance package himself. I do not agree that he should keep every penny of his income because somehow he has "earned" it by working harder than anyone else.

And, lets remember that bill Gates has actually contributed something worthwhile to the economy while many millionaires working in the financial industry have created nothing of value-- nothing that truly makes our economy better!

Ummm.. I really do think bringing up the war is valid. besides the human costs, the cost to our economy has been enormous. But, my larger point was that politicians should not all of the sudden say they are worried about deficits. There WAS a budget surplus in the not too distant past.

 

[BuffyR]

Out of the bill.....AFTER it was passed using the votes gained by making those promises to Congressman. lol

Seriously, I'm shocked that there is gambling (I mean dealmaking) going on in politics. I really can't believe that. Do you think this has happened before? Just shocking. (I'm being sarcastic, BTW).

Bottom line the deals are out.

 

[double t]

Seriously, I'm shocked that there is gambling (I mean dealmaking) going on in politics. I really can't believe that. Do you think this has happened before? Just shocking. (I'm being sarcastic, BTW).

Bottom line the deals are out.

Well they dont need Nelson anymore so what the hell. lol!! He got used just like Stupak did. But, whatever it takes.....
The bribes have been going on forever. I am not ok with it however.
I'm Independent, did I mention that? lol!!!
Listen, I am glad we can discuss this without going nuts on each other.
One thing we can agree on...we both like Cathe.

 

[double t]

I brought up the war in response to someone's complaint about spending. Just wondering why the same critics did not complain about the massive deficit spending for 8 years of Bush.

The CBO estimates say it will reduce the deficit. I'm not an expert but they are.

Bush ticked me off with his spending habits. The Repubs turned into Democrat-"lites" during that time with their spending. Now all both parties do is continue spending, printing more money, spending some more....print some more. It's a good thing we have the best military for when someone tries to cash in their IOU'S. lol! We DO still have a military, right? They haven't wrecked that yet I hope.

 

[BuffyR]

Well they dont need Nelson anymore so what the hell. lol!! He got used just like Stupak did. But, whatever it takes.....
The bribes have been going on forever. I am not ok with it however.
I'm Independent, did I mention that? lol!!!
Listen, I am glad we can discuss this without going nuts on each other.
One thing we can agree on...we both like Cathe.

I think that you are misusing the word bribe. Bribe implies that someone is gaining something personally. To negotiate something good for your state or district is not really a bribe. BTW, I'm not defending Nelson or Stupak but I'm just saying I don't think bribe is the right word.

Yeah, we can agree. Cathe rocks.

All the best to you.

 

[dorothyrd]

Well they dont need Nelson anymore so what the hell. lol!! He got used just like Stupak did. But, whatever it takes.....
The bribes have been going on forever. I am not ok with it however.
I'm Independent, did I mention that? lol!!!
Listen, I am glad we can discuss this without going nuts on each other.
One thing we can agree on...we both like Cathe.

I think Stupak fully intended to vote for this all along and that was all a ruse. Guess I don't trust any of them.

I actually don't like the actions of the republicans right now, stalling, just to stall, not improve anything. I guess I feel nothing they can do will stop it, so stop with the silly things, and get on with working on something else.


When we were attacked in 2001, did you not want us to do anything? I am truly curious about this, because yes, war is expensive, but we were attacked.

 

[BuffyR]

I think Stupak fully intended to vote for this all along and that was all a ruse. Guess I don't trust any of them.

I actually don't like the actions of the republicans right now, stalling, just to stall, not improve anything. I guess I feel nothing they can do will stop it, so stop with the silly things, and get on with working on something else.


When we were attacked in 2001, did you not want us to do anything? I am truly curious about this, because yes, war is expensive, but we were attacked.

Yeah, I agree, Stupak fully intended to vote for healthcare reform all along.

As for the wars, I would have preferred that we not invade Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.

 

[dorothyrd]

Thanks for your answer. My understanding was British intel told the Bush administration there were WMD, and that is why we invaded, and of course as we all know, none were found.

 

[Stephanie0523]

When we were attacked in 2001, did you not want us to do anything? I am truly curious about this, because yes, war is expensive, but we were attacked.

Iraq did not attack us. Instead of putting all of the country's focus on the terrorists that DID attack us Bin Laden/Afghanistan, Bush chose to start a war based on a lie (WMDs), which cost not only billions of dollars, but many many lives. It's inexcusable. Now the same people who supported him are whining about overspending? Please. They are whining about a bill that is intended to help SAVE lives. I don't understand how the "pro-life" party can be so hypocritical.

 

[Kettlecorn]

Iraq did not attack us. Instead of putting all of the country's focus on the terrorists that DID attack us Bin Laden/Afghanistan, Bush chose to start a war based on a lie (WMDs), which cost not only billions of dollars, but many many lives. It's inexcusable. Now the same people who supported him are whining about overspending? Please. They are whining about a bill that is intended to help SAVE lives. I don't understand how the "pro-life" party can be so hypocritical.

I so agree.

 

[dorothyrd]

But is there documentation to show that there was or was not British Intel. Because I distinctly remember that was the reason given to believe there was WMD. I hear all the time that Bush lied, but I have not seen anything that supports that. If he went in because of British intel, then he did not lie, he just had bad intel. IF there was no intel, then he lied.

Don't ask me to believe media reports. The station I listen to in the morning runs Rush at lunch. I turn my car on, and Rush is telling me abortions will be paid with federal tax dollars when I KNOW that spelled out in the bill it specifically says no federal tax dollars can be used for abortions.

This is an example of far right lies, but far left lie too, so therefore I think it is fair to me to ask, because of what I remember is intel saying it was there, congress voting to go in because this intel was convincing enough that they all agreed.

I get tired of using our tax dollars to be the military might for the whole world. So you will not get an argument from me that those dollars are better spent here. I think if we had just gone into Afghanstan, we would still be there, and still be spending bunches of money. I think this is not a winnable war, as our enemy(the terrorist) are too elusive. It is unfortunate that we live in a world where extremist want to kill us, but it is probably better to just protect our borders.

 

[Lisa7691]

Completely completely agree. In most cases, I don't think millionaires work harder than those making minimum wage. I have quite a few millionaire clients and they have cushy jobs in big financial firms or law firms and take long lunches and go on vacation a lot. I have seen young associates in law firms put in fairly long hours but probably not longer than a poor woman working 2 jobs trying to feed her kids. Most wealthy people have had the benefits of education to slot them into the top-paying jobs, or they have been clever enough to invent Pet Rocks or whatever else America wants to purchase in mass quantities. But as far as hard work? I worked the hardest of any job of my life when I was a teenager working at fast food places for minimum wage scrubbing the chicken fryers and sweeping and mopping. I now work in a nice law firm with a pretty good salary and benefits. I am not working harder for my larger salary. The difference is I had a better education, which fortunately my mom could pay for, which enabled me to do a different job than a minimum wage job.

The people who come in to clean the office at night work very hard and I do not mind at all paying a larger chunk of my taxes so there will be some social programs to protect them.

Does anyone really think that Bill Gates works much harder than guys digging ditches? He has so much money he could probably pay for the health insurance package himself. I do not agree that he should keep every penny of his income because somehow he has "earned" it by working harder than anyone else.

Yes but most of the millionaires that have "cushy" jobs right now worked long and hard to get to that point in their careers. Very few people just have the job handed to them. They made the choice to go to school, to invest their time and energy into making themselves more marketable and to position themselves to earn more money.

I never said that the people who make more are better people - far from it. What I said is that if you work to EARN something, whether it is $5, $500 or $500 million dollars, that money should be YOURS. You shouldn't have to defend yourself from other people who have less that don't want you to have what you've got.

I also never said that we shouldn't pay taxes - I clearly stated that there are basic functions that are essential for the government to perform - foreign affairs, national security, road & air infrastructure of course being represented.

And finally to an earlier poster about paying taxes to help the less fortunate - if you really want to have an impact on those who are less fortunate find a good charity that is doing great things with the donations they receive. At least then you have the option of choosing not to send it to an organization that is running rampant with waste and corruption. I would never send humanitarian assistance through the government if there was a responsible charity to choose from first. It is not necessarily patriotic or compassionate to pay more taxes.

 

[dorothyrd]

Yes but most of the millionaires that have "cushy" jobs right now worked long and hard to get to that point in their careers. Very few people just have the job handed to them. They made the choice to go to school, to invest their time and energy into making themselves more marketable and to position themselves to earn more money.

I never said that the people who make more are better people - far from it. What I said is that if you work to EARN something, whether it is $5, $500 or $500 million dollars, that money should be YOURS. You shouldn't have to defend yourself from other people who have less that don't want you to have what you've got.

I also never said that we shouldn't pay taxes - I clearly stated that there are basic functions that are essential for the government to perform - foreign affairs, national security, road & air infrastructure of course being represented.

And finally to an earlier poster about paying taxes to help the less fortunate - if you really want to have an impact on those who are less fortunate find a good charity that is doing great things with the donations they receive. At least then you have the option of choosing not to send it to an organization that is running rampant with waste and corruption. I would never send humanitarian assistance through the government if there was a responsible charity to choose from first. It is not necessarily patriotic or compassionate to pay more taxes.

Good post!

 

[double t]

But is there documentation to show that there was or was not British Intel. Because I distinctly remember that was the reason given to believe there was WMD. I hear all the time that Bush lied, but I have not seen anything that supports that. If he went in because of British intel, then he did not lie, he just had bad intel. IF there was no intel, then he lied.

Don't ask me to believe media reports. The station I listen to in the morning runs Rush at lunch. I turn my car on, and Rush is telling me abortions will be paid with federal tax dollars when I KNOW that spelled out in the bill it specifically says no federal tax dollars can be used for abortions.

This is an example of far right lies, but far left lie too, so therefore I think it is fair to me to ask, because of what I remember is intel saying it was there, congress voting to go in because this intel was convincing enough that they all agreed.

I get tired of using our tax dollars to be the military might for the whole world. So you will not get an argument from me that those dollars are better spent here. I think if we had just gone into Afghanstan, we would still be there, and still be spending bunches of money. I think this is not a winnable war, as our enemy(the terrorist) are too elusive. It is unfortunate that we live in a world where extremist want to kill us, but it is probably better to just protect our borders.

Dorothy, I agree with almost everything you said. But, is it explicitly spelled out in the bill about abortions? If someone can cite a section of the bill, I would like to see it. At this point, I'm not sure. I am wondering why Obama put out the executive order concerning abortion if it was already spelled out in the bill itself. Anyway, just wondering.
The "Bush Lied" thing is a complete myth that is debunked by many people. Go to factcheck.org....usually a liberal leaning site by the way....and look it up. He had a quote taken out of context and also was only saying what Intel had told him. Never understood why Bush never went after this myth more. The media repeats it three times and it becomes fact.

 

[double t]

Iraq did not attack us. Instead of putting all of the country's focus on the terrorists that DID attack us Bin Laden/Afghanistan, Bush chose to start a war based on a lie (WMDs), which cost not only billions of dollars, but many many lives. It's inexcusable. Now the same people who supported him are whining about overspending? Please. They are whining about a bill that is intended to help SAVE lives. I don't understand how the "pro-life" party can be so hypocritical.

Iraq was a haven for terrorist training camps. Also, Bush had 75% of the American people behind invading Iraq. How many Americans want this healthcare thing again? 25%? Just sayin...

 

[dorothyrd]

I am at home now, so will go find the passage and give you page number and all. I found it odd that Obama put the executive order out, unless that was to prevent it from being amended. BTW, Obama was for partial birth abortion when he was in Illinois.