(Please don't flame me) Question on the health ins

75% are happy with their current coverage. Who do you watch--Keith Olberman? MSNBC? I get my info from sources outside Fox and all the rest. Rest assured. :) I am not affiliated with either party and don't prescribe to any one sided news sources.

Um, if we wanted Iraq's oil how come we never used any of it? Seems to me if Bush had a chance to invade just for oil, he'd have brought it here, have it cracked by our refineries into gasoline....and bam..instant gas price drop because of increased supply..Bush then looks like a hero. How come he didn't do that? Just wondering..


We're way off topic here. The Libby thing was a joke. Plame wasn't even covert and if she was Armitage was the leaker, not Libby. They got him on perjury because of conversations he couldn't remember consistently. Whatever. There were others involved in that affair who made inconsistent statements as well and got no jailtime. I think Chris Matthews was one of them. Not sure now.
Back to topic---
Tell me, what do you think of this statement by Obama, made at George Mason recently:
""This year, they(insurance companies) will be banned from dropping your coverage when you get sick. Those practices will end."
He made that statement despite the fact that it is outright illegal for insurance companies to drop someone when they get sick...in all 50 states. So, it's already banned. His bill is not doing anything new, yet he wants everyone to think that dropping sick people is a common practice and his bill will fix that wrongdoing. It's a blatant lie......or he doesn't know what the heck is going on. And you want me to trust him regarding ObamaCare? Sorry, this is why I distrust the government in areas like this one.
 
Just want to say again, I am glad we can chat about this in a nice way. You all are very refreshing and enjoyable to talk with so I hope I am not coming off as nasty or anything. I'm having fun and hope you all are too. :)
 
I did, I got 2300 yards of swimming in before work. Tomorrow will probably be Bootcamp, and more swimming on the weekend. Since the new health bill says I have a chronic illness(BMI over 25), I am working on being a healthier American!
 
Buffy, I distinctly remember all of this playing out at the time, and what fact check has matches what I remember. I news all the time back then, and Bush got intel from the British, and using that, Bush and Congress felt that Irag was a threat. It is ridiculous that all these lies about that time are floating around. That is why I asked, because I have always wondered what the heck people were talking about, because what they were saying does not jive at all with everything I remember about that time. It is like people are rewriting history to suit their own purpose and that is the lies.
 
dorothyrd said:
Buffy, I distinctly remember all of this playing out at the time, and what fact check has matches what I remember. I news all the time back then, and Bush got intel from the British, and using that, Bush and Congress felt that Irag was a threat. It is ridiculous that all these lies about that time are floating around. That is why I asked, because I have always wondered what the heck people were talking about, because what they were saying does not jive at all with everything I remember about that time. It is like people are rewriting history to suit their own purpose and that is the lies.
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Bush and Co. cherrypicked the evidence that supported their position. There was alot of evidence that did not support their intel but that was completely ignored and they just went with the questionable intel, selling it as the gods honest truth. Going back now and and claiming they didn't know it was bad intel is rewriting history.

Even if you believe everything they say, which clearly we don't agree on, don't you think if your going to start a war you better be damn certain there is an actual threat???? Saying, oops, we went to war for no reason but oh heck, Hussien was a bad guy so its ok we were wrong doesn't cut it for me. If I was the mother of one of the dead soldiers or an Iraq civilian, I wouldn't be very forgiving of that. As it is I'm not too happy my tax dollars were wasted. Like I said, I think healthcare is a hell of alot more important that deposing a ruthless dictator.
 
Dorothy, I just wanted to say I appreciate that we disagree and kept this civil. Clearly, I'm a huge Obama supporter and a blue to the core Dem. I don't get the feeling you are which is absolutely fine. It was great debating with you, but, man this can get time consuming. Signing off this thread now. All the best. Have a great workout tomorrow and enjoy your weekend.

Buffy
 
back at ya Buffy, you made me smile. Hopefully we have one thing in common, Americans, who truly want the best for this country. Have a good evening.
 
dorothyrd said:
Our public schools are a state government entity, and in fact, since our state is bankrupt, our schools have not gotten their state money for about 2 years. Massive cuts, and layoffs in every school district is happening. A proposal to shorten the school week to 4 days has gone through one house, to save money. Our main public college is probably going to hike tuition 20% next year as I am sure other colleges will follow suit. Don't tell me business is running our schools, business would do a far better job of this than our government. Our government has a lousy track record for running things.
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Big business is fully embedded in all of our schools. Test, textbooks, lunch food, administration officials, are all making billions off the tax payers. Lobbyist are fighting to keep big business making huge profits in our schools. A prime example of the text book issue is that a text book company came in to the southern half of our state and sold a math program to all of our districts for grade K-8. It was a total failure of a program. Teachers, parents and kids all were confused and test scores dived, but because of contracts signed and so much money invested, we were stuck for years protesting and complaining to have it changed.

The testing companies have lobbyist fighting to keep the excessive school testing because they are making huge profits, another billion dollar business. We've outsourced so much of what is going on with our education system, its no wonder our states cannot afford to keep the school running properly. You bet big business is draining our schools dry.
 
My understanding was it was bad intel from the CIA (although I suspect Darth Cheney had a hand in the misinformation as well). And frankly it really doesn't matter.........there's an old saying by a former president, "the buck stops here." Bush and his administration are responsible for the unjustified, outrageously expensive war in Iraq. The whole "I got bad information" excuse just doesn't fly b/c the info he got was from his own advisors. If they're lying to him, what does that say about his leadership abilities? As Buffy said, we absolutely, positively should not go to war unless we have firm evidence there's an actual reason to.

I'd be interested in seeing the source that claims the US doesn't use Iraq oil, b/c it's false. We use about 325,000 barrels a day from Iraq.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...ons/company_level_imports/current/import.html
Terrorist camps in Iraq multiplied dramatically after we went to war there. Al Qaeda didn't even exist in Iraq until Bush decided to invade.

I'd also love to see a source backing the "75% of Americans supported the Iraq war." The polls I've looked at show that initially it was around 60%, but that number took a serious nose dive within 6 months--down to 30%--when our great citizens realized they'd been snookered & there were no WMDs in Iraq.
 
BuffyR said:
Bush was very crafty in his language. .
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Whoever wrote his speeches was very crafty. I'm sorry, but Mr. Bush seemed to have all the intelligence of a ground coffee bean.

Those who are in favor of this bill, are most likely those who are uninsured. It's easy to fight and stall and say 'I don't agree with this because...' when you and your family have health insurance for life as government officials do, but for those who have no health care and are in need this is an urgent matter that needs to be addressed now not later. As far as how much it will cost, I just can't give a damn. Everything in this country comes at a ridiculous price so I have no problem with providing health care for all. Real health care, not this 'oh I know you have been paying your premiums for 10 years and now you have kidney failure, but your insurance doesn't cover that' crap!

As far as a friendly face vs a cold shoulder, who cares as long as the illness is adressed and the patient is helped.
 
DEEDEE2 said:
Whoever wrote his speeches was very crafty. I'm sorry, but Mr. Bush seemed to have all the intelligence of a ground coffee bean.
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You are correct, DeeDee. I was giving Bush way to much credit for his crafty speeches. I'm quite sure he could not have written a paragraph much less an entire speech.
 
DEEDEE2 said:
As far as how much it will cost, I just can't give a damn. Everything in this country comes at a ridiculous price so I have no problem with providing health care for all. Real health care, not this 'oh I know you have been paying your premiums for 10 years and now you have kidney failure, but your insurance doesn't cover that' crap!
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The huge problem with this line of thinking is that the United States is running out of money! We are passing a debt of ridiculous proportion to our children and grandchildren to pay off. That isn't just a soundbite - it's the God's honest truth. Social Security THIS YEAR is going to pay out more than it takes in. The CBO estimate (those smart guys!) BTW, was that this wouldn't happen until 2016. The United States credit rating is in serious threat of being downgraded from AAA status. Just like in personal finance, when your credit score goes down you pay higher interest rates.

There is no magical fountain of government money. Although those in office want to pretend there is. They have increased the amount of paper money in the system (printed new stuff) by trillions. The amount of money in the system was relatively flat until 2001 (see this handy Federal Reserve graph http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred...ion_date=2010-03-26&mma=0&nd=&ost=&oet=&fml=a when under Bush (yes he did make mistakes) the amount of money increased dramatically but since Obama took office the line has literally sprinted up the chart. We need to take lessons from the Weimar Republic in the 1920s and Venezuela over the last few decades.

The new American arrogance is that we can spend whatever we want whenever we want and the laws of economics will not ever effect us as it does other countries. We need to get our fiscal house in order or we will all be suffering - whether we have health insurance or not.
 
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Lisa7691 said:
The huge problem with this line of thinking is that the United States is running out of money! We are passing a debt of ridiculous proportion to our children and grandchildren to pay off. That isn't just a soundbite - it's the God's honest truth. Social Security THIS YEAR is going to pay out more than it takes in. The CBO estimate (those smart guys!) BTW, was that this wouldn't happen until 2016. The United States credit rating is in serious threat of being downgraded from AAA status. Just like in personal finance, when your credit score goes down you pay higher interest rates.

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I couldn't agree more. My point is if we are going to go into debt then it needs to be a debt of quality like saving lives in this country, not destroying lives in other countries. It just surprises me that we are willing to dig ourselves into a deeper hole to do things that don't serve us in any way, but when we start to think about helping ourselves it is too expensive.
 
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DEEDEE2 said:
I couldn't agree more. My point is if we are going to go into debt then it needs to be a debt of quality like saving lives in this country, not destroying lives in other countries. It just surprises me that we are willing to dig ourselves into a deeper hole to do things that don't serve us in any way, but when we start to think about helping ourselves it is too expensive.
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Well said!!!! ITA
 
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