Marathon training: work on cardio or muscular endurance...

[jennifermaria]

Hi Cathe,

I hear a lot about working to improve endurance when training for a long-distance running event (they must call them "endurance races" for a reason ), but am wondering whether they mean one would need to work on building muscular endurance or cardio endurance? Or both?

Full disclosure: I prefer heavy weight training to muscular endurance training, so I'm kind of hoping you'll say that I can get away with working on just the cardio endurance part .

And speaking of cardio endurance, is the best way to increase this (and by "this" I should be clear about my goals: I want to increase my stamina to be able to sustain the run and withstand higher intensity) to increase the time or intensity of my workouts? Or again, is it both?

Thanks in advance! I know you're super-busy, but I'd love to get your thoughts on this, since I trust your expertise .

Jennifer

 

[farmgirl]

Ok, I'm DEFINITELY not Cathe, but did complete my first marathon 10/07, I used Cathe's muscular endurance videos based on recommendations from Runners World forums which recommended focusing on building core strength and overall light to moderate weight lifting and flexibility workouts. Granted, I ended up a little slower (OK a lot slower than I wanted to) after twisting my knee along the way during the marathon, but I gutted out a power walk and credit good muscular development and endurance to finish. Have you read any good training programs/guides? They can be quite helpful...just remember to have fun and enjoy the "ride". I plan on working on bettering my time late this summer/early fall
take care and good luck!
Julie

 

[jennifermaria]

Thanks, Julie! I think I'm in denial that I may just have to go on an endurance-style weight training rotation for a while. I really love the strength gains from the heavy weight training, so I every time I start to go on an endurance style, I can't stay on it for more than a week .

Did you do anything special to increase your cardio endurance other than the training program? I'm going to be training with Team in Training (I run with them every summer), so I'm not worried about the actual training, but I would love to build up my endurance BEFORE my "real" training begins (I start my training in June, and my event is in late October, so I'll have a little under six months).

Jennifer

 

[Kathy G]

I've run a couple of marathons, several half marathons, and two 25k's. I continued to lift heavy and was just fine. Right now I'm doing a BFL Challenge while training for a marathon on 5/4/08.

The key to endurance is your long run. Don't run it too fast but concentrate on pacing yourself. I've used several different training guides and this seems to be what's stressed in all of them. HTH.

Kathy g

 

[jennifermaria]

Thanks, Kathy!

Like you, I've always done heavy weights during my past half-marathon trainings as well (I've done 7 so far) and relied solely on those training runs (especially the long runs) to build up my stamina. But I noticed that I always, always lose steam in the last 2-3 miles--no matter how devoted I was during my 12-16 weeks of training, and no matter how good I felt going into the race. Even on my best race (i.e. when I set a PR--that I hope to break this year ), I still broke down in the last 2 miles and had to dig really deep to make it across that finish line.

With my first full coming up, I was thinking maybe I needed to tweak things a little, so I didn't have that hitting the wall experience (if I'm hitting it at mile 10, I can't imagine having to endure 16 more miles thereafter ). I'd love to hear about other things I could be doing to kick things up a notch. I'm hoping my stamina hasn't plateaued and that all I can do is just suck it up once my training starts and hope for the best LOL. If there's anything new I can do in the weeks leading up to my training to make things a bit easier, I'd love to try it. I do plan on asking my coaches for specific advice once the season starts, too--I have a feeling they'll have lots of tortuous things to throw at me when I do that *hehe*.

Love hearing from fellow runners!!

Cathe: I hope you still take a look at the question and offer your view as well. I'm anxious to see what your recommendation might be .

Jennifer

 

[Vickie C.]

Kathy G, are you by any chance training for the Flying Pig marathon?
I am running the half for the first time this year with a friend. I have never run before, so I'm very nervous. We are going to walk/run it though. Regardless, good luck to you guys on your marathons.

Vickie

 

[Kathy G]

Jennifer,
Well, I back to butt in again, lol...I know you want Cathe's input here. But I have a couple of suggestions for you regarding the last two miles. 1) increase your tempo runs - 2) increase your long run mileage. In other words, if your tempo run is only 5 miles during the week, increase it to 7. This should give you more stamina for the end. Also if you're doing say a half marathon, your last long run should be 15 miles so your body is already accustomed to an even longer mileage.

There really is no "magic" answer to those last few miles, we all struggle through them. I watched a movie at the theater earlier in the month titled "Spirit of the Marathon" and even Deena Kastor (the marathon olympian) has trouble getting across the line.

Hi Vickie! I live in NJ and plan on running the NJ Marathon in Long Branch, NJ. You'll do great with your half, please PM me and let me know how it goes, ok?

Kathy G

 

[jennifermaria]

Hi Kathy,

I don't mind you "butting in" at all (please do )!

Interesting... I think you may have hit the nail on the head--I typically don't do more than 5 miles on a tempo run (and more often than not, I do 4). I believe the longest run on our training schedule for the half-marathoners is 12 miles, though. The coaches as that you stick to the training schedule pretty closely, and especially the long runs, which are more "organized" (i.e. the coaches are there, closely monitoring everyone's distances and making sure people don't do more than they've outlined), I probably wouldn't be able to sneak in a few more miles.

That said, since I'll be training for a full this time around, I believe their training has us running 20 miles for our longest run, so I'll just have to pretend that I know what it's like to run those last 6 miles LOL.

I am going to try increasing my mileage for my tempo runs, though. I think that would help me a lot. Technically, our training schedule has us upping our mileage on our tempo runs throughout the season (until taper), but I get lazy and since those runs aren't coach-led, I sometimes do my minimum 4 miles and call it a morning . Bad Jen LOL.

Jennifer

 

[Cheryl Shakespeare]

RE: Marathon training: work on cardio or muscular endur...

Hi Jennifer,

I've run 10 marathons plus one full ironman triathlon and found that muscular endurance type strength esp. for legs did help me during my marathons. Of course one does have to also build up the cardio endurance (i.e. put in the mileage) in order to complete the event successfully as well. The only thing I found difficult was during my mileage 'peak' I had to decrease the poundages I used for leg strength because I'd just get too fatigued. It also depends on your goals, in order to be faster and increase intensity you also need to do speed interval training which will affect your strength workouts too. Personally I always try to keep some strength work in my training regimen because I find I start losing too much muscle mass when I'm in heavy training mode...during ironman training I lost a lot of muscle because I had stopped strength training in order to fit in all the sports training and I'd never do that again. And I agree with Kathy about increasing the distances of your long runs if you want to help your stamina at the end. Most marathon training plans don't suggest over about 20-22 miles for the longest run but I found I had my best success when I did at least 26 in training. I run too many marathons though to do that much mileage in training because it beats up my body so bad...unless I want to go for a PR! Anyway, hope my ramblings help...

Cheryl

 

[jennifermaria]

RE: Marathon training: work on cardio or muscular endur...

Thanks, Cheryl!

Can I ask what videos you found to be most helpful when you were doing more endurance type weight training? If I do have to give up my heavy weight training (waah!), then I'd love to get recommendations on what will be effective at giving me the muscular endurance I need, but won't let me lose the strength gains I've worked so hard for.

I wonder if doing heavier weights for my legs in the peak of my training ended up harming me more than it helped me... I look back at my best ever season, when I set my PR, and I think I did a lot more functional training with lighter weights. Last year, I wanted to do more serious weight training so I was on ether a GS or a PUB/PLB rotation the entire summer, and I remember that at times my legs were wiped out from those lower body workouts. Maybe I was pushing too much? Last season wasn't bad by any means, but I definitely felt as though I had to work harder to achieve the same things.

Jennifer