Knee Pain - Chondromalacia

A

amhess

Cathlete
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON May-15-02 AT 11:05PM (Est)[/font][p]Hi all,
Long story, short...I injured my knee in Aug, 2001 doing Tae Bo. Twisted the inactive leg by not pointing the toe outwards while doing a kick. Since then I've had nothing but pain, swelling and now I can hardly walk or bend it when it flares up, which it does when I walk, stairs, run, steps, pretty much any type of activity. I've been to a Dr. and had an MRI, said it showed no torn ligaments or anything, just swelling. Have done physical therapy and has not helped. Finally they're sending me to a specialist. I'm just hoping my knee will be swollen that day so they don't send me home b/c it shows nothing from all the Ibuprophen I have to take to get it down to a managable size to walk. I've been trying to do my own diagnosis and research and think it might be a type of chondromalacia, but am not sure. Anyone had a problem like this or similar to chondromalacia to shed some light on the subject. I NEED to be able to start exercising again!
Thanks,
Anne (AMYJOHAUGE's twin!)


5/15/02 UPDATE

Thanks to everyone for your input! It's been very helpful. I've finally seen an orthopedic specialist and the diagnosis is Patellofemoral Stress Syndrome. Symptoms are: Dull, achy pain in front and/or sides of kneecap. Increased pain during, running, walking, stair climbing, bicycling...
Causes are: Quads are weak, Abnormal foot pronation, bad shoes (broken down) and muscle tightness in hams, calves and iliotibial band.
Treatment: Eliminate activities that stress the knee causing pain (stairs, kneeling, etc...) Modify physical activities, begin strengthening program, stretching to target lower extremity muscles, ICE, anti-inflamatory as needed.

So, I've begun my own program and modified Cathe's Leaner Legs tape to only do light or no weights for now. Seems to be working and I'm stretching religiously for at least 1/2 hour night. It's actually working and I've had little to no swelling now. It's tough not being able to run or do the step yet, but I realize that what I can do is more important than what I can't right now.

Thanks again to all and I'll keep you posted as to my results. Oh, I'm taking gluc/chond too.
Anne
 
I'm by no means an expert, but we just covered this topic in my athletic training class, and chondromalacia seems to be more chronic, like your symptoms, except there really isn't a particular traumatic event that causes it, or so my book says. Perhaps when you twisted it, the patella began tracking abnormally which may result in your symptoms. I hope the specialist will be able to help, I suffer pain on and off myself due to two ACL repairs on the same knee. Good luck and keep us posted, I would like to know what your diagnosis is.

Lori
 
Hi Anne,

My real name is Anne too! Anyway, I'm sure none of us can diagnose your particular problem from here, but what I can tell you is that chondromalacia isn't usually associated with the degree of swelling that you're describing. You really do need to see an orthopedist who has a special interest in knee problems - not all orthopedists are alike! Be sure to elevate and ice if there's any swelling and avoid any activities that cause swelling until you get a diagnosis. Not trying to alarm you, but just encouraging you to be cautious. Keep us posted!

Cheers,
Colia
 
Hi. I had a traumatic injury to my knee 8 weeks ago tonight--and I, too, have swelling still. An MRI also confirmed no torn ligaments or cartilage damage.) I tried a physical therapist--but, it was of absolutely No Value to me. She told me to "bend my knee 100 times a day.) duh. PT's: don't get warped--this just didn't do it for me.

So, I will tell you what has helped: glucosamine-chondroitin (1000mg a day); Co-enzyme Q-10 30 mg a day (or as much as you can stand up to 60 mg); MSM both internally (1000 mg a day) and in an external lotion that I rub on it twice a day--that's a sulfur compound); grape seed extract; and boswellia. All of these herbs and supplements help re-build ligaments, cartilage and bone. (Plus, lots of calcium, too, of course.) These things don't change things overnight; in fact, I'd been taking most of them anyway--just upped the quantities. But, they DO helpover time--allow 45 days if you haven't taken any of them.

Also, Ice and elevation. I find that in the morning I have several Good hours; then my knee gets to feeling like I have an Ace bandage on it--and I do Not--it's just the swelling. I am back to exercising --carefully. I found I can do cardio with the nordic track; certain 6" step tapes. Not to bore you--but the key challenges are lunges (of course); high impact is out of the question still; but, I can do most things.

The key thing is don't overdo--but do Something. You can re-hab this on your own, probably. I am just so happy to be functional again that I don't think about what I was doing; I just think about what I Can Do. Keep me posted. Murph (my e-mail is posted in my profile.)
 
Hi! I also have a bad knee that gets painful and swollen whenever I go a little overboard. I was taking ibuprofen like candy--not good--it's torture on your stomach; I have read that it causes bleeding in your stomach, actually. But I kept on taking it because it helped keep me going--until one day I came across a book on supplements and read about the glucosamine-chondroitin combination and the great things it can do. This supplement is backed up by studies that show real evidence of improvement.
I never believed very much in supplements before, but I have faithfully been taking the glucosamine-chondroitin supplement every day for about 3 months now, and I do not have the need to take ibuprofen any longer (believe me, it was a main staple in my diet before!). I would urge you to give it a try.
The name of the book that I got the info from is called "Earl Mindell's Peak Performance Supplement Bible". It has lots of other great information as well.
Murph, I will also try some of the additonal things you mentioned! I did read up on MSN a few days ago and plan on adding that. I didn't know about the external lotion, I will try to find it. Thanks for that info. It sounds like you're making great progress--I'm so happy for you!
Good luck!
Denise
 
I have chondromalacia in one knee. I was diagnosed with an MRI because of pain under/around the knee cap. Typically it does not swell much, plus I also felt unstable going up/down steps. THe fact that it doesn't swell much seems to puzzle the specialist but I don't notice much - maybe a very small place now and again but nothing hugely noticeable.

Since chondromalacia involves the wearing off of the cartilage on the backside of the knee cap, there's not much they will do beyond PT exercises and bracing until they determine that surgery to re-smooth the surface will work - and it's only a temporary fix. A damaging blow to the knee can cause chondromalacia - such as a fall or other significant knee trauma - or so I've read. I think mine is due to overuse and the fact that my lower leg and foot are put on a bit turned outward to the left - and I had to point that out to my specialist... sometimes I wonder...

Anyway, my dr. also suggested cortisone injections in the knee to keep the pain down, but I refused. (Some day soon I expect the scientists to perfect their cartilage replacement - and I'll go for that.) I use anti-inflammatories (naproxen typically) and also supplement with Glucosamine, Chondroitin and MSM - a combination I found that after a while (3 or more months) the joint seems to glide more smoothly. Also - I wear a Breg PTO brace - with the J-channel - to help keep the knee cap in its place. I limit lunges - which seem to increase the grating/pain, and focus more on squats and occasionally do the PT exercises. I lift 4-5 times a week at home (Cathe) and do taekwondo 2-3 times a week. Sometimes I do cardio kickboxing - but never without a brace on.

My daughter, however, has cropped up a few times with a swollen, painful knee and the MRI and x-rays show nothing - and we've had the fluid drained off and tested as well. They first thought it was bursitis, but the bursae were not swollen - the MRI just showed fluid in the knee area. So they have decided it is patellar subluxation, which is the patella sliding off the center and then back into place - irritating everything along the way. (an overly strong quadricep muscle can do this)

We wrap her knee if it swells and do PT exercises to strenghthen the muscles around the knee cap. (This is a common ailment among young female athletes.) Bracing is another option. So far we haven't had to (although we occasionally wrap it when she's playing basketball for a long time), but we do ask her to wear knee pads for basketball.

I hope your knee checks out o.k. and it is simply a sore knee with no recurrence in the future. Do some net surfing on chondromalacia - there are some sites that have PT exercises on them that help out for most knee conditions as well.
 
I have had bad knee swelling in one knee...no injury that I can recall. I had been to a PT...what has helped me is, to get one of those gel ice packs and ice ice ice whenever you can...that REALLY helps. Also a knee brace, the kind with the hole to hold your knee still. Also, if ibuprofen is too hard on your tummy, you might try and get a prescription for celebrex...only have to take it once every 24 hours, and it is very easy on your tum tum.

ICE ICE ICE ICE ICE ICE for at least 10 minutes, 3x a day.
Esp after any exertion.

My knee is 90 percent better, but it took a while (6 months). I am back to working out nearly normally, but very careful with impact.

Don't get discouraged...you can get rid of this.
 
cjbate, I have a question for you, or anyone else who may know the answer to this question--I have wondered about it for a while.

I know that when you first get a knee injury (or any other joint injury) it is very helpful to ice the area (the whole "rice" treatment). But when it is a chronic injury, do you ice it each time it flares up? I have read that on a fresh injury ice helps, but then heat, not cold compresses help after a certain amount of time.
Thanks for any help!
Denise
 
Denise, I first injured my knee (tore my ACL) in 1993 in a skiing accident, tore it worse in the winter of 1999 and had an ACL reconstruction in June 1999. I occasionally get flare-ups of tendinitis (a common after-effect of this surgery). I use ice every time and that helps -- usually I am good to go again after a couple of days. Ice reduces swelling. It probably depends on the type of injury. If there is no swelling in a chronic injury, heat may be more helpful than ice, but for my particular chronic situation, I swear by "rice".
 
I was diagnosed with Patellar Femoral Syndrome - aka chrondromalacia - in both knees. Last summer I had surgery on both - arthroscope/scrape (where they smooth down the cartilage under kneecap) and lateral releases (where they cut the lateral muscle that is pulling the kneecap too tightly to one side).
I still had the pain and decided to go to a Pain Specialist this past March and have gotten 2 rounds of Prolotherapy shots. I think they are helping. I am able to do step videos and higher impact aerobics, as well as ride my bike again. I recommend checking out all your options and certainly don't do anything - or see a doc - you're not comfortable with. There's a website on prolotherapy called www.getprolo.com if you're interested. There is also a forum at Yahoo groups called the Chrondromalacia Community (sorry, I don't have the address off hand). Best wishes and I hope you can find some answers!
 
I have been having these symptoms - not quite as bad as yours but still bothersome.

I wanted to wait until school starts again to see the doctor, but thanks to your symptoms description/update I don't need to. I have been doing daily stretches and the dull pain on the front side of my knee is gone. I can do Interval Max again! Thank you for posting this.
 
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