H1N1 vaccine

elliemom said:
I certainly agree that everyone has a RIGHT to decide what is best for their family. I just can't believe the uproar over a vaccine that has so many people afraid.

In 1989 there was a huge outbreak of the Measles in our community. A couple HUNDRED adults were stricken and a few died from encepalopathy. Many had major neurological conditions as well. Why did this happen????

Because parents stopped giving MMR vaccine and all of us born after 1960 had NO immunity to it. Measles in adults can be deadly. My DH got MUMPS a few years ago and is sterile. Measles, mumps and rubella made a huge comeback because the target age groups were not being vaccinated. So yes, our actions do and can affect others.

I am always surprised by the number of people who will give their children Tylenol (LIVER KILLER), antibiotics for every sniffle, and a slew of other meds (that we do not know the long term effects of) like it is candy, yet will not vaccinate them against deadly diseases.

And adults are just as hypocritical with their own health. They go to the doctor, take the meds, never ask any questions, want pain relief, get epidurals for labor, take every new antidepressant on the market, diet pills etc etc etc., yet swear that big Pharma is out to get them.

Does anyone know how aspirin works or why????? Nope, because even the scientists don't know. It's still a mystery how and why it reduces pain and fever. Shocking after 100 years isn't it.

And just because something is NATURAL, doesn't make it safe. I sure wouldn't be out eating digitalis out of my backyard.

And FWIW, I don't call people "stupid".
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This surprises me because I was born in 61 and had MMR vaccinations. My kids are 21 and 16 and had MMR. However, my kids did not get chicken pox vaccine, they got the illness, recovered and are fine, yet I am sure some would deem me horrible for not getting them this.

My daughter did some research, and said, no, she does not want the vaccine and even if I signed the paperwork, she was not going to go when they called kids out of class to get it. She is old enough to make this choice. If she comes down with H1N1, perhaps she will regret this choice. The vaccine I got in 2000 did not save me the pain of the type A flu that laid me out for 2 months, so vaccines are not the be all end all. Sometimes you get what you get...

Again, I just do not like the over hysteria in the media that are causing people unnecessary stress.
 
2 things. H1N1 flu is contagious BEFORE symptoms start. So even if you keep your child home when he starts to show symptoms, it doesn't mean others weren't infected.

My son was 13 when he got H1N1 and given Tamiflu.

I understand people making their own personal decisions about this, BUT, I guess I disagree with people DOWNplaying the virus. It is serious. And I wonder, where did you get this 99% statistic, Carola?

Speaking of the media, they also blow the side effects of these vaccines out of perspective too. Like the girl who got the flu shot and has to walk backwards to walk straight. how many magazines and TV shows and news programs was SHE on? ONE girl in millions. But everyone gets all freaked out about THAT.
 
dorothyrd said:
This surprises me because I was born in 61 and had MMR vaccinations. My kids are 21 and 16 and had MMR. However, my kids did not get chicken pox vaccine, they got the illness, recovered and are fine, yet I am sure some would deem me horrible for not getting them this.

My daughter did some research, and said, no, she does not want the vaccine and even if I signed the paperwork, she was not going to go when they called kids out of class to get it. She is old enough to make this choice. If she comes down with H1N1, perhaps she will regret this choice. The vaccine I got in 2000 did not save me the pain of the type A flu that laid me out for 2 months, so vaccines are not the be all end all. Sometimes you get what you get...

Again, I just do not like the over hysteria in the media that are causing people unnecessary stress.
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We all had a MMR titer drawn and it was found that our antibodies were only present in very small amounts because we had the vaccine in the 1960's and this was over 20 years later. That is why we needed a booster shot.

I agree that the media has been confusing people and "over hyping" sometimes. But we need to look at the last time we truly had a GLOBAL PANDEMIC. That is the difference here.

I am not trying to change you or your DD's decision, I am just offering some info regarding the loss of "herd immunity" and childhood immunizations.
 
elliemom said:
I am always surprised by the number of people who will give their children Tylenol (LIVER KILLER), antibiotics for every sniffle, and a slew of other meds (that we do not know the long term effects of) like it is candy, yet will not vaccinate them against deadly diseases.

And adults are just as hypocritical with their own health. They go to the doctor, take the meds, never ask any questions, want pain relief, get epidurals for labor, take every new antidepressant on the market, diet pills etc etc etc., yet swear that big Pharma is out to get them.

Does anyone know how aspirin works or why????? Nope, because even the scientists don't know. It's still a mystery how and why it reduces pain and fever. Shocking after 100 years isn't it.

And just because something is NATURAL, doesn't make it safe. I sure wouldn't be out eating digitalis out of my backyard.

And FWIW, I don't call people "stupid".
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You running into open doors with me on that one. I always ask questions of my doctors and I have been yelled at by some docs that they "did'nt go to school for years just to have their decision being called into question" and that from a doctor who put on my son's papers "viral infection" and prescribed an antibiotic. I had the audacity to ask why he prescribes and antibiotic if it is a virus, I thought that it doesn't work for viral infection. The nurse then told me that the antibiotic is only prescribed as a "precaution" in case an ear infection develops. Well, I don't give antibiotics for what might happen.

My kids rarely get any fever reducers or pain relievers, if that makes me a bad parent, well, then I guess I am. For myself, I have to be half dead to take any pain reliever or other medication. I have refused chemotherapy and I believe that many of the medication that are approved by the FDA and are on the market may have side effects that we don't have any idea.

I will give my kids and take medication myself if I am convinced there is no other option and it is the lesser of two evils. And I always weigh benefits against possible (unknown) side effects. That concerns drugs and also vaccinations.

I absolutely agree and I have said that many times before not everything natural is safe!! But I am also saying just because the mainstream medical community says a drug or vaccine is safe does not mean that it actually is safe and that it is FDA approved means diddly squat to me.

I believe you can call me many thing but not a hypocrite. I don't only talk the talk, I do walk the walk and for the record, yes, I don't trust anything that comes out of the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA. I believe that they should have to prove that any drug or treatment is actually safe and not that someone has to prove that it is unsafe but unfortunately this is not how it works in the current environment.

And yet, I am the one who is reckless by having the audacity to ask questions not only about the side effects of a vaccine but also the effectiveness. I have not seen any proof that it works nor any proof that it is safe. Again I am weighing the possible risks against the possible benefits and for me the scale tips towards more risk than benefit.

But I acknowledge that another reasonable person could come to a different conclusion.
 
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Boingo1 said:
I understand people making their own personal decisions about this, BUT, I guess I disagree with people DOWNplaying the virus. It is serious. And I wonder, where did you get this 99% statistic, Carola?
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It was on Dr. Nancy Snyderman on MSNBC, hardly a anti-vaccine program. In fact, she drives me nuts with her constant "get the vaccine, get the vaccine" mantra. I believe it was Dr Thomas Frieden (?) of the CDC and they were talking about the vaccine shortage and stated that parents shouldn't freak out because in 99% of cases there will be no complications. It really aggrevated me because first there is this big hype about the global pandemic and then it effects 1 % of the people. Still tragic but in the big picture of odds and risks for me personally the scale tips towards no vaccine.

I will try and find the statistic online.
 
elliemom said:
We all had a MMR titer drawn and it was found that our antibodies were only present in very small amounts because we had the vaccine in the 1960's and this was over 20 years later. That is why we needed a booster shot.

I agree that the media has been confusing people and "over hyping" sometimes. But we need to look at the last time we truly had a GLOBAL PANDEMIC. That is the difference here.

I am not trying to change you or your DD's decision, I am just offering some info regarding the loss of "herd immunity" and childhood immunizations.
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I believe that was 1976 when they had us all lining up at shopping malls to get the flu vaccine, which my parents chose not to get. I know several people who got quite ill from those flu shots, and not many people who got quite ill from the pandemic. And remember SARS? How many of you got that? That was blown up to be pandemic as well.

Again, get the shot if you feel it is necessary. Don't if you don't want to, but this is not The Stand.
 
If my daughter had agreed, I would have signed the paperwork for the shot, but I am would definately NOT get the live vaccine in the nasal mist. I just got this email, and I sort of figured this was going to happen:

Rats, it is a PDF and I cannot cut and past. Basically the only thing available is the nasal mist.
 
My kids got the nasal mist and they haven't turned into pods. Seems like the hysteria goes both ways. If people aren't scared to death of H1N1, they're scared to death of the vaccine.

I happen to be more scared of the actual virus.
 
Stephanie0523 said:
My kids got the nasal mist and they haven't turned into pods. Seems like the hysteria goes both ways. If people aren't scared to death of H1N1, they're scared to death of the vaccine.

I happen to be more scared of the actual virus.
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EXACTLY, Stephanie! I also got the nasal mist, as did my friend's children. We are all FINE.

I guess I just want people to how serious H1N1 is. If you choose to NOT believe it, then become a health care worker or talk to one, see what's happening in the hospitals. I don't know how to be more convincing of this.
 
I am very scared of this flu - my son has been in the ER two times before he was 4 with pnemonia. When he gets any sickness, it seems to go right to his lungs. I cannot find a seasonal flu or H1N1 vaccine ANYWHERE in the state of Maine. I have called and emailed anyone and everyone with no luck. His school is supposed to have a clinic "sometime" in the future, they are waiting for the vaccines to get sent to them.

I am doing my best to keep him healthy and lots of hand washing. That is all I can do...

Michelle
 
Boingo1 said:
EXACTLY, Stephanie! I also got the nasal mist, as did my friend's children. We are all FINE.

I guess I just want people to how serious H1N1 is. If you choose to NOT believe it, then become a health care worker or talk to one, see what's happening in the hospitals. I don't know how to be more convincing of this.
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Well, but on the other hand how do you know that the vaccine has no side effects in the long term? Just because people don't drop dead like flies on the spot doesn't mean that it has no adverse effects in the long run. I am not trying to fear monger, it's a serious question: How do you know? And that really is my issue with the vaccine. There are no double-blind placebo controlled studies (which according to the medical community is the gold standard)that it is effective, there is not one shred of evidence that the vaccine actually prevents H1N1 and there are no studies of long term side effects.

I think all you see in hospitals are critically ill people and I do admire you for being able to do that, I'd probably go crazy if I worked in a hospital because I am a recovering hypochondriac. When I spent a lot of time in different cancer wards and cancer groups with people dying I had a tendancy to focus on the bad but I had to remind myself that is not the majority.
So if even the CDC says that 99% of people will have no major impact I guess I just fail to see the big danger.

I need to stop responding to this thread but I have to say that I am a little offended by remarks like "my kids got the vaccine and didn't turn into pods" and "we got the nasal mist and we are just fine". I find them ridiculing and dismissive of concerns that some people, including myself have and none of you have any conclusive proof that the vaccine works and has no LONG term side effects.
 
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My daughter got the nasal mist and broke out with hives all over her torso. The rash didn't clear up for over a week. When I called the MD to report my daughter's reaction I was told that I am the only person who ever indicated a side effect from the vaccine and that I should just give her benedryl.

I was very conflicted about her receiveing the vaccine, but my husband really wanted her to have it. I could not come up with a compelling reason to forgo having her vaccinated other than a general distrust of the government....especially when they try to convince us that something they have cooked up is good for us. Next time around my daughter will NOT be getting the mist.
 
hiitdogs said:
Well, but on the other hand how do you know that the vaccine has no side effects in the long term? Just because people don't drop dead like flies on the spot doesn't mean that it has no adverse effects in the long run. I am not trying to fear monger, it's a serious question: How do you know? And that really is my issue with the vaccine. There are no double-blind placebo controlled studies (which according to the medical community is the gold standard)that it is effective, there is not one shred of evidence that the vaccine actually prevents H1N1 and there are no studies of long term side effects.

I think all you see in hospitals are critically ill people and I do admire you for being able to do that, I'd probably go crazy if I worked in a hospital because I am a recovering hypochondriac. When I spent a lot of time in different cancer wards and cancer groups with people dying I had a tendancy to focus on the bad but I had to remind myself that is not the majority.
So if even the CDC says that 99% of people will have no major impact I guess I just fail to see the big danger.
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That's why it's a gamble. I suppose there could be long-term side effects. My kids have been getting flu shots since they were in my womb and I have yet to see a side effect from those. They have gotten the general flu mist two years in a row and no side effects yet. If they had contracted a nasty case of H1N1 followed by a bad case of pneumonia, that could have had even worse consequences. As I said, after being in an emergency room twice with a very sick child with a very high fever, I thought the vaccine was the lesser of the two risks.
 
Carola, why do you feel it necessary to constantly quote me in your replies?? I am not directing my comments at you personally. If I were, I would contact you personally. I am only giving MY opinion (and experience) regarding vaccines.

My hypocrite comment is for all the people that give their children TONS of useless and unnecessary medicines for convenience. If a child (or adult for that matter) has a mild fever, that is a good thing, That is the body's natural response to kill the germ. But most people start giving Tylenol and Motrin for very minor self-limiting fevers. And I am sure we all know the possible side effects of overuse of Tylenol.

Again, and I will try to make this as clear as possible, MY OPINION is just that- an OPINION. I am not name calling or flame throwing I am just trying to give the other side of the story. I am not, nor would I ever question the medicine you decide or don't decide to give your children. Frankly, it's none of my business and I did not point you out in that discussion.

I only hope that in future discussions it's okay for all of us to have an opinion and feel free to voice it.
 
Ellie, just as you were not directing your comments at me, I did not direct my comments directly at you. By saying "you can call me a lot of things but not a hypocrite" I meant YOU as in people in general.

I said that you are running into open doors with me on what you said because I happen to agree with you on that one and I what I was detailing what I meant.

I don't understand what your complaint is. You gave your opinion, I gave my opinion, just because you don't hit quote doesn't mean that you didn't respond to something I said directly.
 
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fit_fairy said:
Carola, I don't know what source you are reading on Tamiflu but it FDA approved in children >1 year of age

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety...ormationforPatientsandProviders/ucm107838.htm
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It is approved for children as young as 1 year for treatment but it is not approved for children under 13 for prophylaxis (which is what I said - admittedly not very eloquent and a little misleading).

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety...ormationforPatientsandProviders/ucm107840.htm

My source was my pediatrician who said that Tamiflu is not indicated for children under 12 but I did not ask for details because Tamiflu was not an option for me. She also said that there seems to be evidence that Tamiflu causes more serious side effects in children and that there is ongoing investigation by the FDA.
 
I've always known that several topics just cannot be discussed without fear of offending or angering someone, such as religion, abortion, death penalty, war, health care, assisted suicide, party affiliation, etc. Vaccines are going to the top of my no-no list. It's one of those topics that's just bound to start an argument. :confused:
 
Fembot40 said:
I've always known that several topics just cannot be discussed without fear of offending or angering someone, such as religion, abortion, death penalty, war, health care, assisted suicide, party affiliation, etc. Vaccines are going to the top of my no-no list. It's one of those topics that's just bound to start an argument. :confused:
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LOL. Yep we mama bears have strong opinions when it comes to our cubs. However, I don't think it's an argument. Just a good old-fashioned debate. Right, Carola?
 
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