H1N1 vaccine

dorothyrd said:
Where did you get the fact that many that have died did not have underlying conditions, because this is not at all what I have heard.
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Well, I understand from reports that most of the children did have underlying health conditions, but 20 to 30 percent of the children who have died did not. (See http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125510729312776463.html). I've also read that nearly half of the adults (45 percent) who have died from H1N1 had no pre-existing conditions. Those numbers are what led me to say "many" of those who have died had no known pre-existing conditions. The numbers were too high for me to risk it.

ETA: One healthy 5 year old little boy died in my state and I also watched a very heart-wrenching 60 Minutes episode that showed a healthy high school football player in the mid-West who got H1N1, followed by pneumonia and staph infections and was in critical condition. Hearing those personal stories affected my decision as well.
 
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I work in a hospital that is a trauma center as well. There have been so many cases of H1N1!! After I heard that a 6 yr old boy was in the ER with it, and had to be put on a ventilator (he had NO underlying medical conditions) and that a 14 month old baby died of it last week (NO underlying condition), I had all my kids vaccinated. (the shot). My oldest also has Type 1 Diabetes, and HAD the H1N1 virus in June. He got very very sick, but we managed to keep him home. It wreaked havoc with his blood sugars, though, and if he had not been started on tamiflu within 24 hours of the fever onset, he would have been hospitalized or worse.

As an RN at that hospital, we are strongly recommended to get it as well. I went this morning and all they would give me was the mist. I wasn't happy about it, but ya know what? , I need to be safe.

Also in the ER, are tons of adults, 20-30's, with H1N1 and sick sick SICK!

I think the fear of "vaccines" is bullshit. This stuff can KILL KIDS and BABIES!
 
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Stephanie0523 said:
Well, I understand from reports that most of the children did have underlying health conditions, but 20 to 30 percent of the children who have died did not. (See http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125510729312776463.html). I've also read that nearly half of the adults (45 percent) who have died from H1N1 had no pre-existing conditions. Those numbers are what led me to say "many" of those who have died had no known pre-existing conditions. The numbers were too high for me to risk it.

ETA: One healthy 5 year old little boy died in my state and I also watched a very heart-wrenching 60 Minutes episode that showed a healthy high school football player in the mid-West who got H1N1, followed by pneumonia and staph infections and was in critical condition. Hearing those personal stories affected my decision as well.
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You know, I have a lot of problems with percentages. This is because I know many people who have had a form of flu, who did not go to the doctor. Since they are saying that if you get a flu right now, it is H1N1, then there are lots of people getting it and recovering.

That said, I am NOT anti-vaccine. I am anti propaganda, blowing it up out of proportion. I have had the seasonal vaccine, and get it every year at work. The problem I am seeing with the H1N1 vaccine is that there are a good number of kids already out with it, and the vaccine has not even arrived. It just seems day late, dollar short, and put the hysterical media on it and it gets to be a mess.

I got a type A flu 8 years ago. It immediately went into pneumonia and 2 strong antibiotics and 3 months later I was FINALLY feeling better, so I can imagine how bad something like this is for someone small, and compromised. I had got a flu shot in the fall, came down with this in February as did many that year, and the doctor felt I probably came down with the flu that they would give in the shot the following fall. The media did not go crazy about that year, and I knew a whole lot more people who got severely ill that year.
 
Boingo1 said:
I think the fear of "vaccines" is bullshit. This stuff can KILL KIDS and BABIES!
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As can riding in their parents car!

In general I am not anti-vaccine but I do believe that we are over-vaccinating and that this flu vaccine, H1N1 or otherwise is completely useless.

I find the spreading of fear by the media and the continued dismongering more concerning than the swine flu. As tragic as it is there will always be seemingly healthy people who will die from the flu as there are seemingly healthy football players who will drop dead at training.

It's like when a plane crashes. Millions of planes fly the American skies safely, if one crashes it's a big story and triggers fears in people. Safe plane rides every day is not a big story, a crash is. 99 % of people having no problems with H1N1 is not a story, one seemly healthy kid dying of pneumonia in the aftermath of H1N1 is a big story and triggers a lot of fear in parents.



That being said, both my kids had H1N1, they felt icky for a few days and had to stay home from school for over a week but with the usual remedies that I use for regular flu or cold like First Defense, oil of oregano, vitamin D and of course lots and lots of hot tea they did okay. Obviously I was exposed to a lot of virus in our house but I didn't get it, maybe there is something to vitamin D (I take fairly high doses) or it was pure luck.

ETA: I totally agree with everything you said, Dorothy! Getting the vaccine after having been exposed to the virus already is like putting a seatbelt on after the car crash. More is not always better.
 
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hiitdogs said:
That being said, both my kids had H1N1, they felt icky for a few days and had to stay home from school for over a week but with the usual remedies that I use for regular flu or cold like First Defense, oil of oregano, vitamin D and of course lots and lots of hot tea they did okay. Obviously I was exposed to a lot of virus in our house but I didn't get it, maybe there is something to vitamin D (I take fairly high doses) or it was pure luck.
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Just curious, how did you know your kids had H1N1? Were they tested specifically for it and when? To me "icky for a few days" is not H1N1. My son was very VERY ill with it. I guess if you get to the point where you think your child might die or become hospitalized because of it , you'd want to do more. I saw it first hand with my son. And he was tested by his doctor specifically for it.
 
My younger son tested positively for H1N1, we didn't do the test for my older son but the pediatrician said it is likely that they caught the same "bug" and the treatment for H1N1 and the regular flu was the same (unless they would catch the pneumonia that CAN follow H1N1).

The pediatrician also said that there is not much difference in the symptoms of H1N1 and the regular flu but that is usually left out, the reports we get are from people that have become critically ill but that is only a small percentage whereas 99% of people with H1N1 feel "icky" (meaning body aches, chills, fever, sore throat, vomiting, cough, etc.)

It's not my intention to dismiss your experience with H1N1 but I would suggest that your son's diabetes may be an underlying condition that may complicate H1N1 but that is not the case with the majority of kids. I am curious though, I heard that Tamiflu is not approved in kids under 12 years? I am glad he turned out okay and didn't have to get hospitalized.
 
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I just can't believe we are having this "discussion" again.

For many years in the ER we called car accidents MVA's (motor vehichle ACCIDENTS), a few years ago the term was officially changed to MVC (motor vehichle crashes). Why??? Because can THAT many people have ACCIDENTS all the time or are there other factors involved?? Such as applying make up, changing radio, talking on telephone etc. And the obvious alcohol.

So yes, you can get killed in your parents car through the fault of another driver. I don't find this analogy to swine flu meaningful at all. My point is that we all need to take responsibility when we are on the road just as we do with protecting others from a POTENTIALLY deadly flu.

There are 3 children in our small school alone who are currently on ventilators from H1N1. Is that such a SMALL percentage to everyone? Is that " nothing but fear mongering". Is the fact that people are dying from an Influenza virus in a non-influenza season just a way to make us take an unneccesary vaccine.

I beg to differ here.

Children have no immunological memory of any of these virus', therefore it hits them much harder. They have never been exposed and therefore have no antibodies. They are dying from the recklessness of others who refuse to accept that this "novel" H1N1 is deadly.

If anyone's child has had it and did well and got better quickly, Thank God or Buddah or whatever deity you may believe in. But let's not call those poor little children whose lives are hanging in the balance a statistic. And maybe we should be grateful that so far it is NOT our child.
 
There have been a lot of kids out with H1N1 in the local school districts. It seems to be hitting the Freshman down group fairly hard. Most the of the kids feel icky for a few days, just like Carola's and then recover with out secondary problems. One girl I know was having a bit more difficult time with secondary infection and had to be put on an additional antibiotic.

I knew quite a few kids down and out with "something" last spring and early summer. They were not diagnosed with H1N1 because they basically stayed home, got better, and went on with their lives, but I would suspect some of them had it. Which means there a quite a few people that never get reported, which skews the numbers.

I do not ever want to play down the people who have had severe problems with this or any other flu. Get the vaccine if you are concerned. If it helps you sleep better at night, it will be a good thing.

I let my daughter choose. The vaccine finally came to her district this week, although her age group is not being allowed it yet. They are giving it to the younger kids first. She says no. She feels it is not necessary for her. She has had quite a few friends have it this fall, they have been with her when contagious, and she has been ok for now. I think by the time the vaccine gets to the high school, if it ever does, most of the kids who are going to get the flu will have already gotten it.
 
Ellie, THANK you. I totally agree with you. Maybe being a nurse and having kids dying or doing so poorly so close makes it more real.

And your post made me think. Yes, it's okay that maybe YOUR child has no underlying disease and will do fine with H1N1, but what about the kid sitting next to him/her in class that has asthma or diabetes. Or even the kid that has NO underlying disease, but does more than "just feel icky". H1N1 does kill kids. Maybe think of the other kid.

And sadly enough, I was told by my Pediatrician , in the state of Massachusetts, there are NO priorities for H1N1 for kids with underlying diseases. that ALL kids are high priority.
 
Ellie and Chris I agree.

Chris I live in MA and our Pedi. Doc set up clinics for the high risk children. My older son is high risk and my younger is not so. They urged us to get the vaccine for my younger son to protect my older one since he is allergic to eggs and therefore can not get the vaccine. I am vaccinated through work and DH needs to be. If we can stop it from entering our home that is one step ahead.
 
I'm squarely in the Chris, Ellie, Elaine camp on this one, folks!! My DH, a pediatrician, has been working around the clock for weeks because of H1N1 and there is no end in sight. The hospital where he works is currently over capacity because of admissions due to H1N1. There have been a few deaths in Ohio, some in cases where the victim did not have an underlying problem.

I don't know anything about percentages, all I can tell you is that kids in general, whether they suffer from underlying disease or not, are at higher risk for the flu and they are in the the group most likely to suffer major life threatening neurological complications such as seizures, encephalitis, and encephalopathy. That's just a fact, not a scare tactic.
 
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Elaine, Thankfully you have a pediatrician that understands "high risk". I was told by mine that the state gave out the vaccines with again, ALL kids being priority (you know how in the past flu shots were given to elderly first, etc, as mandated by the state). This year, it was ALL kids as priority. But individual doctors have the discretion to give them out as they see fit. Mine stuck with the state mandates. My boys got the H1N1 vaccine through their school , though. (with again, no priorities, just K-5 kids first).
 
Lee, that is how the hospitals are here too. And kids aren't just admitted for "having the H1N1". they are admitted because they have COMPLICATIONS from it. And our pediatric unit is FULL. They are actually revamping the Pediatric unit to accomodate more ventilators! :eek:
 
elliemom said:
I just can't believe we are having this "discussion" again.

For many years in the ER we called car accidents MVA's (motor vehichle ACCIDENTS), a few years ago the term was officially changed to MVC (motor vehichle crashes). Why??? Because can THAT many people have ACCIDENTS all the time or are there other factors involved?? Such as applying make up, changing radio, talking on telephone etc. And the obvious alcohol.

So yes, you can get killed in your parents car through the fault of another driver. I don't find this analogy to swine flu meaningful at all. My point is that we all need to take responsibility when we are on the road just as we do with protecting others from a POTENTIALLY deadly flu.

There are 3 children in our small school alone who are currently on ventilators from H1N1. Is that such a SMALL percentage to everyone? Is that " nothing but fear mongering". Is the fact that people are dying from an Influenza virus in a non-influenza season just a way to make us take an unneccesary vaccine.

I beg to differ here.

Children have no immunological memory of any of these virus', therefore it hits them much harder. They have never been exposed and therefore have no antibodies. They are dying from the recklessness of others who refuse to accept that this "novel" H1N1 is deadly.

If anyone's child has had it and did well and got better quickly, Thank God or Buddah or whatever deity you may believe in. But let's not call those poor little children whose lives are hanging in the balance a statistic. And maybe we should be grateful that so far it is NOT our child.
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They are not dying from the "recklessness" of others. I am really tired of being put on a guilt trip for not being willing to put every vaccine that is out there in my kids body.

Second, despite of being touted as the miracle defense vaccines do NOT protect everyone either because just the mere fact that they are artificially producing anti-bodies does not mean that they are developing immunity. Otherwise people who had the flu vaccine wouldn't get the flu, people who had the H1N1 vaccine wouldn't get the swine flu and dogs who are vaccinated for distemper wouldn't get distemper.

I understand that people who work as nurses are exposed to more horrible events and that it certainly has an effect, I get that! But the facts are the facts. 99 % of people who get H1N1 will be fine.

I don't know what the right decision is and for every research that says it is perfectly effective with no side effects there is other, just as credible research, that states the contrary. This is not only true for H1N1 but for every other disease out there. I think everyone has to make up their mind as to what makes more sense to them and do what they think is right for them or their family. I don't think there is ONE right decision, there is only the decision that is right for ONE family, your own. Just because I come to a different conclusion on what I have read does not make me reckless or stupid.

Catherine, my pediatrician has stated that Tamiflu is not indicated for children under 12 years. I guess this one says not for kids under 7 years.
http://kdka.com/health/flu.cdc.tamiflu.2.892108.html

The FDA says that they can be treated with Tamiflu but not for kids under 13 for prophylaxis. I am always glad to see that there are so many different statements out there. Doesn't make it any easier for anyone to make a decision as to what's right.
 
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Chris you are lucky that your school is giving the vaccine out. Our school district has not decided to do that.

Yes it is the choice of individual people and families. All I ask is that when a child or an adult is sick to stay home. Germs spread no matter how careful you may be.

The hospital I work at is also having to put pediatric patients on regular floors. If you are an employee and declined the H1N1 vaccine they are coming up with a policy that you will have to wear a face mask as soon as you enter the building and during your entire shift, to protect the spread of the disease and people you treat.

Over causcious maybe, but I would rather that then have H1N1 or the seasonal flu spread to intesive care and the NICU.
 
Carola yes that is what I have heard of Tamiflu. They should not be using it prophylaxis on either adult or children. All we need is the H1N1 virus to become resistant to the one drug they treat with.
 
I certainly agree that everyone has a RIGHT to decide what is best for their family. I just can't believe the uproar over a vaccine that has so many people afraid.

In 1989 there was a huge outbreak of the Measles in our community. A couple HUNDRED adults were stricken and a few died from encepalopathy. Many had major neurological conditions as well. Why did this happen????

Because parents stopped giving MMR vaccine and all of us born after 1960 had NO immunity to it. Measles in adults can be deadly. My DH got MUMPS a few years ago and is sterile. Measles, mumps and rubella made a huge comeback because the target age groups were not being vaccinated. So yes, our actions do and can affect others.

I am always surprised by the number of people who will give their children Tylenol (LIVER KILLER), antibiotics for every sniffle, and a slew of other meds (that we do not know the long term effects of) like it is candy, yet will not vaccinate them against deadly diseases.

And adults are just as hypocritical with their own health. They go to the doctor, take the meds, never ask any questions, want pain relief, get epidurals for labor, take every new antidepressant on the market, diet pills etc etc etc., yet swear that big Pharma is out to get them.

Does anyone know how aspirin works or why????? Nope, because even the scientists don't know. It's still a mystery how and why it reduces pain and fever. Shocking after 100 years isn't it.

And just because something is NATURAL, doesn't make it safe. I sure wouldn't be out eating digitalis out of my backyard.

And FWIW, I don't call people "stupid".
 
I totally agree that kids (or everyone who is sick) should stay home and not spread germs which is why I kept my kids home for over a week. On the other hand I am lucky because I work from home so I don't have to make arrangements like other parents who have to be at work. It would have been a lot more difficult if I had to be in an office from 8 to 5.

But after 3 days my son's school started calling when he will be back at school, I guess it has something to do with their excelling status and attendance. Ummmh, screw your attendance record, you don't want that kid with swine flu come to school. But I had to get a note from my pediatrician.
 
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