Endurance vs strength
- Thread starter CathydsRNA
- Start date
marih
Cathlete
Hi-
I am not Cathe and I don't know if this will help but I am coming out of lurkdom to post my opinion. (I taught weight-training for 10 years)
Both types-strength and endurance- training are needed. Muscular strength is for normal everyday lifting (groceries, toddlers, luggage, etc.)
Muscle endurance training comes into play when you are shoveling the snow, performing sit-up or pull-up tests, etc. It is also useful when you are training for a specific sport.
I can go into more detail but I am on my lunch and need to get back to work!
HTH,
Mari
I am not Cathe and I don't know if this will help but I am coming out of lurkdom to post my opinion. (I taught weight-training for 10 years)
Both types-strength and endurance- training are needed. Muscular strength is for normal everyday lifting (groceries, toddlers, luggage, etc.)
Muscle endurance training comes into play when you are shoveling the snow, performing sit-up or pull-up tests, etc. It is also useful when you are training for a specific sport.
I can go into more detail but I am on my lunch and need to get back to work!
HTH,
Mari
I believe Cathe has posted a similar description of strength and endurance workouts. However, what I am still unsure about is whether high rep (low weight) workouts actually make a difference to how the body looks.
Also, when Cathe does things like low ends, is this equivalent to increasing the weight? In other words, are 10 low-end squats with a light weight equivalent (with respect to VISUAL effects) as 10 full range squats with a heavier weight? Obviously, doing low ends "feels" harder but what is the effect?
Also, when Cathe does things like low ends, is this equivalent to increasing the weight? In other words, are 10 low-end squats with a light weight equivalent (with respect to VISUAL effects) as 10 full range squats with a heavier weight? Obviously, doing low ends "feels" harder but what is the effect?
CathydsRNA
Cathlete
Yes, I am aware that endurance workouts are good for functional fitness and for increasing endrance but what I really want to know is the effect on muscle growth and development especially contrasted to growth and development that occurs with slow and heavy workouts.
Hi Cathy,
This is my understanding, bear with me as this may be hard for me to explain. Disregaurd if I get confusing.
Types of muscle fibers
Slow twitch (type l fibers)- endurance, low intensity
Fast twitch (type ll fibers) short duration, high intensity activity
Everyone has both types of muscle fiber. Some have more of one type than others. You would want to work both for maximum results in strength training. (I'm just focusing on strength as that is what I see that you are asking about).
Slow twitch fiber dominance (hard gainers)
Training with higher reps, shorter rests, and more sets can help maximize results. Use heavy weights to achieve failure and allow muscle growth (remember fast twitch fibers have a greater potential for growth than slow twitch). Even though slow twitch are predominant, you will want to train your fast twitch fibers with heavy weight routines for maximum results. This is why you include both types of training. You just need to figure out what training program will maximize your results.
Just in case this is not what you are looking for, I'll stop.
jordan
This is my understanding, bear with me as this may be hard for me to explain. Disregaurd if I get confusing.
Types of muscle fibers
Slow twitch (type l fibers)- endurance, low intensity
Fast twitch (type ll fibers) short duration, high intensity activity
Everyone has both types of muscle fiber. Some have more of one type than others. You would want to work both for maximum results in strength training. (I'm just focusing on strength as that is what I see that you are asking about).
Slow twitch fiber dominance (hard gainers)
Training with higher reps, shorter rests, and more sets can help maximize results. Use heavy weights to achieve failure and allow muscle growth (remember fast twitch fibers have a greater potential for growth than slow twitch). Even though slow twitch are predominant, you will want to train your fast twitch fibers with heavy weight routines for maximum results. This is why you include both types of training. You just need to figure out what training program will maximize your results.
Just in case this is not what you are looking for, I'll stop.
jordan
WD
Cathlete
I can't give a definitive answer here, but I think both methods are important to muscle gain and definition. Even bodybuilders do giant sets which I would think were more endurance to help break the plateaus. It would depend on how much mass you want to develope and how much more concentration you would want to put on one or the other. Also how hard you want to push with the weights. Even on Endurance I go as heavy as I can for these workouts, which is sometimes only 10-15 lbs under what I do for a heavy Cathe type of workout.
Diane Sue
Diane Sue
CathydsRNA
Cathlete
Hi Jordan, I have read and posted on the open discussion forum that weight training both slow and heavy and lo weight high rep trains primarily slow twitch fibers and that fast twitch fibers are pretty much unaffected by any type of weight training.. Fast twitch are primarily developed by plyometric training and interval sprinting. That's whyt I am wondering if there is any type of muscle development favored by low weight high rep training. Thanks.
Hi Cathy,
I couldn't find your post. What's the thread title?
I really must be misunderstanding big time. I was always taught ( in A & P, pathophysiology, and articles) that fast twitch muscle fibers responded better to weight training. If you had more fast twitch fibers you had a better response to building muscle mass using (heavy weights) low to moderate reps, longer rest periods, and moderate sets. Slow twitch fibers used to be considered unaffected by strength training but their is a school of thought that says otherwise. Slow twitch will be affected some but not like fast twitch.
Maybe I'm just twitching too much over this that I'm confused
:7 ,
jordan
Just wanted to add that I hope you find an answer to your question.
I couldn't find your post. What's the thread title?
I really must be misunderstanding big time. I was always taught ( in A & P, pathophysiology, and articles) that fast twitch muscle fibers responded better to weight training. If you had more fast twitch fibers you had a better response to building muscle mass using (heavy weights) low to moderate reps, longer rest periods, and moderate sets. Slow twitch fibers used to be considered unaffected by strength training but their is a school of thought that says otherwise. Slow twitch will be affected some but not like fast twitch.
Maybe I'm just twitching too much over this that I'm confused
:7 ,
jordan
Just wanted to add that I hope you find an answer to your question.
CathydsRNA
Cathlete
Hi Jordan, I must admit that I am confused about this slow twitch fast twitch fiber information. In addition to make it more confusing there seems to be two types of fast twitch fibers. Whichever way it works, I keep finding that weight training primarily develops one type (both slow and heavy and low weight/high reps). I have found information that sugggests that low weight high rep training can increase your lactate threshold and increase perfomance under endurance type conditions but no where can I find solid information that including this type of weight training can do more for muscle development than slow and heavy alone nor can I find any solid infomration that a different type of fiber is involved in this type of weight training. I have found info that suggests plyometric training is best for developing the other twitch fibers that weight training doesn't primarily involve. The name of the thread on the open discussion is Educated Crowd/endurance vs strength.
Cathy,
Here is the link to an old post that discusses this. It's very informative.
http://69.0.137.118/dc/dcboard.php?...ic_id=27977&mesg_id=27977&listing_type=search
Note the example this author gives about her friend who primarily uses high rep training because she has a lot of myofibrils (high muscle density) and still has great muscle development, but she gets too large if she trains heavy. It seems the point here is that both endurance training and heavy training will contribute to muscle growth, but the degree of growth depends on your muscle density, which can even range from muscle group to muscle group.
Hope this answers your questions.
Here is the link to an old post that discusses this. It's very informative.
http://69.0.137.118/dc/dcboard.php?...ic_id=27977&mesg_id=27977&listing_type=search
Note the example this author gives about her friend who primarily uses high rep training because she has a lot of myofibrils (high muscle density) and still has great muscle development, but she gets too large if she trains heavy. It seems the point here is that both endurance training and heavy training will contribute to muscle growth, but the degree of growth depends on your muscle density, which can even range from muscle group to muscle group.
Hope this answers your questions.
CathydsRNA
Cathlete
WOW! Thanks for the digging up this post. It is very detailed. Where is Maribeth now? I would love to have here here on the boards now.:7
marih
Cathlete
Hi-
I guess I am too late! That was great elaineyue remembered Maribeth's(which is my birth name btw, no relation) post from a couple of years ago!
Shaz, IMO, the low-ends are intensifiers, like holds and pulses. I don't know if that is Cathe's reason for doing them or not!
Cathy, I am glad you found what you were looking for.
Take care,
Mari
Oh! There have been small (and I mean small-note # of participants) studies done on this topic also:
Moderate Lifting After
Heavy Lifting May
Increase Muscle Size
The authors of this study set out to determine what happens if “hypertrophy” training (moderate intensity, moderate sets) is conducted immediately after “strength” training (high intensity, low reps). The hypothesis was that the total volume of exercise of the combined program would exceed that of the strength program alone, and that the intensity would affect post-exercise lactate and growth hormone responses.
Eight male recreational lifters were tested for this study. The participants did five “strength” sets at up to 90% of their 1 rep maximum, with long rest periods between sets. Thirty seconds after concluding their final “strength” set, they completed one “hypertrophy” set at 50% 1RM
The results suggest that a single set of 50% 1 RM after 5 sets of strength training produces a greater lactate and growth hormone response than another high weight, low rep set. This supports the idea that adding 1 set of high reps to a strength conditioning program may provide an extra boost in lactate and growth hormone levels to help increase size, too.
K. Goto et al., A single set of low intensity resistance exercise immediately following high intensity resistance exercise stimulates growth hormone secretion in men. Journal of Sports Medicine and Physical Fitness 43:243-249, 2003
Low Intensity Sets
Increase Growth Hormone
Concentrations
The same researchers from the previous study also compared the lactate and growth hormone effects of low intensity sets to failure.
What they discovered was that when adding a set of 30 – 50% of the 1RM immediately after a series of sets of near-maximal lifts, the result was an increase in growth hormone levels and hypertrophy. The take-home message: If you are considering adding a submaximal set to a sequence of heavy sets in order to increase size while increasing strength, use loads higher than 30% and lower than 70% of 1-RM.
K. Goto et al., Growth hormone response to training regimen with combined high- and low-intensity resistance exercise. International Journal of Sport and Health Science 2:111-118, 2004
I guess I am too late! That was great elaineyue remembered Maribeth's(which is my birth name btw, no relation) post from a couple of years ago!
Shaz, IMO, the low-ends are intensifiers, like holds and pulses. I don't know if that is Cathe's reason for doing them or not!
Cathy, I am glad you found what you were looking for.
Take care,
Mari
Oh! There have been small (and I mean small-note # of participants
) studies done on this topic also:Moderate Lifting After
Heavy Lifting May
Increase Muscle Size
The authors of this study set out to determine what happens if “hypertrophy” training (moderate intensity, moderate sets) is conducted immediately after “strength” training (high intensity, low reps). The hypothesis was that the total volume of exercise of the combined program would exceed that of the strength program alone, and that the intensity would affect post-exercise lactate and growth hormone responses.
Eight male recreational lifters were tested for this study. The participants did five “strength” sets at up to 90% of their 1 rep maximum, with long rest periods between sets. Thirty seconds after concluding their final “strength” set, they completed one “hypertrophy” set at 50% 1RM
The results suggest that a single set of 50% 1 RM after 5 sets of strength training produces a greater lactate and growth hormone response than another high weight, low rep set. This supports the idea that adding 1 set of high reps to a strength conditioning program may provide an extra boost in lactate and growth hormone levels to help increase size, too.
K. Goto et al., A single set of low intensity resistance exercise immediately following high intensity resistance exercise stimulates growth hormone secretion in men. Journal of Sports Medicine and Physical Fitness 43:243-249, 2003
Low Intensity Sets
Increase Growth Hormone
Concentrations
The same researchers from the previous study also compared the lactate and growth hormone effects of low intensity sets to failure.
What they discovered was that when adding a set of 30 – 50% of the 1RM immediately after a series of sets of near-maximal lifts, the result was an increase in growth hormone levels and hypertrophy. The take-home message: If you are considering adding a submaximal set to a sequence of heavy sets in order to increase size while increasing strength, use loads higher than 30% and lower than 70% of 1-RM.
K. Goto et al., Growth hormone response to training regimen with combined high- and low-intensity resistance exercise. International Journal of Sport and Health Science 2:111-118, 2004
CathydsRNA
Cathlete
Sounds that way. Becasue of the small number of study participants the data may not be statistically significant. I am going to dig up the papers and look at the data for each of the study participants to see if the results were similar for all. If so, I would feel much better about their conclusions based on a small study size.