Casey Anthony-Your Thoughts

hiitdogs

Cathlete
During the course of my career, I have also become skilled at recognizing a guilty person (yes, Casey, I am talking about you) when I see one. Unfortunately, the guilty ones are not always held accountable, sometimes due to the efforts of defense attorneys, but also sometimes because you are not always fortunate enough to be handed a great case. We do the best that we can with what evidence we have to work with. And, unlike others, we have to follow rules. Nevertheless, I take great comfort in knowing that those who get away with things here on earth will someday have to answer to the Ultimate Judge. And in that court, a lack of evidence won't matter and a defense attorney's shenanigans won't work...
I think it is a little over the line to claim that not only would you recognize a guilty person but also claim that any time someone goes free it is due to defense attorney shenanigans!!!! Isn't it the job of a police detective to do an unbiased investigation??

From personal experience I have found that police officers have no problem lying through their teeth and prosecutors have no problem with witnesses committing perjury if they want to make a case. Many prosecutors don't give a flying hoot about innocence or guilt, they care about winning a case! As I have been confronted with the sheer limitless power of the state I have become involved in other cases and the innocence project,seen increasing numbers of police officers bending the truth or "testilying" and prosecutors not disclosing information, this has become a frighteningly common occurance.
Look at the Duke Lacrosse case, Tonya Craft, Ken Waters (featured in the movie "Conviction" with Hilary Swank), Courtney Bisbee, any of the people accused and convicted in the Little Rascals daycare case, or the people featured in the "Witchhunt" movie.
With an estimated 100,000 innocent people wrongfully convicted and serving either in prison or on death row and people released every year after DNA proves them finally innocent, I think we need to take a good look at our justice system!!! Just follow the work/writings of Radley Balko or William Anderson, it is enough to make your head spin!!

Until you or your loved one gets in the claws of the state who has UNLIMITED resources you have no idea what you are up against. Even if you manage to stand up against them it costs you 10s to 100 thousands of dollars in legal fees, experts and investigative work to prove that you didn't do what you are accused of - and no, proving your innocence is NOT defense lawyer shenanigans. It puts your life on hold for months or years, not to mention the constant stress level.

None of us wants to see a guilty person go free, but much less would I like to see an innocent person convicted. I believe the standard to prove guilt has to be beyond reasonable doubt and not that more likely than not someone committed the crime. What I personally have seen from police officers and prosecutors in numerous cases does not inspire much confidence in the justice system and the shenanigans I have seen are more often from police detectives/prosecutors, not defense attorneys.

P.S. LSass, I would have loved to see Nancy Grace head explode, too :)
 
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kims

Cathlete
None of us wants to see a guilty person go free, but much less would I like to see an innocent person convicted. I believe the standard to prove guilt has to be beyond reasonable doubt and not that more likely than not someone committed the crime. What I personally have seen from police officers and prosecutors in numerous cases does not inspire much confidence in the justice system and the shenanigans I have seen are more often from police detectives/prosecutors, not defense attorneys.


I so gotta agree with you on this. I do, however, have trouble with the jury not finding her guilty of child abuse. Maybe if the charge had been 'neglect'??? I don't know.
I believe she knows what happened to her child even if she isn't the actual killer...cause I believe she was murdered...and maybe accidentally...but murdered nonetheless.
Terribly disturbing the whole thing is.:(
 

Juice

Cathlete
I think it is a little over the line to claim that not only would you recognize a guilty person but also claim that any time someone goes free it is due to defense attorney shenanigans!!!! Isn't it the job of a police detective to do an unbiased investigation??

From personal experience I have found that police officers have no problem lying through their teeth and prosecutors have no problem with witnesses committing perjury if they want to make a case. Many prosecutors don't give a flying hoot about innocence or guilt, they care about winning a case! As I have been confronted with the sheer limitless power of the state I have become involved in other cases and the innocence project,seen increasing numbers of police officers bending the truth or "testilying" and prosecutors not disclosing information, this has become a frighteningly common occurance.
Look at the Duke Lacrosse case, Tonya Craft, Ken Waters (featured in the movie "Conviction" with Hilary Swank), Courtney Bisbee, any of the people accused and convicted in the Little Rascals daycare case, or the people featured in the "Witchhunt" movie.
With an estimated 100,000 innocent people wrongfully convicted and serving either in prison or on death row and people released every year after DNA proves them finally innocent, I think we need to take a good look at our justice system!!! Just follow the work/writings of Radley Balko or William Anderson, it is enough to make your head spin!!

Until you or your loved one gets in the claws of the state who has UNLIMITED resources you have no idea what you are up against. Even if you manage to stand up against them it costs you 10s to 100 thousands of dollars in legal fees, experts and investigative work to prove that you didn't do what you are accused of - and no, proving your innocence is NOT defense lawyer shenanigans. It puts your life on hold for months or years, not to mention the constant stress level.

None of us wants to see a guilty person go free, but much less would I like to see an innocent person convicted. I believe the standard to prove guilt has to be beyond reasonable doubt and not that more likely than not someone committed the crime. What I personally have seen from police officers and prosecutors in numerous cases does not inspire much confidence in the justice system and the shenanigans I have seen are more often from police detectives/prosecutors, not defense attorneys.

P.S. LSass, I would have loved to see Nancy Grace head explode, too :)
Sorry Carola, but that is not what I wrote. I have indeed seen guilty people go free due to defense attorney's shenanigans. Many many many many many times. It turns my stomach just like this case does. That said, it also turns my stomach when I hear about innocent people who have been wrongfully convicted. Despite what the press would have you believe, it just doesn't happen that frequently. Having spent 26 years working in the criminal justice system, I am well aware of its shortcomings. So, what do you propose instead? Yes indeed, there are some bad police officers, but most of us are trying to do the best job that we can, despite people calling us liars and questioning our motives every time we turn around. You have obviously had some bad experiences, which is unfortunate, but to paint all of us with the same negative broad brush is not fair to those of us who put ourselves out on the line for you and your family every day. I invite you to spend some time in my shoes before you presume to understand what police officers are all about. :) And I beg to differ with you - there is no such thing as unlimited resources these days. Just ask the 10 police officers from my Department who received lay-off notices last week.
 
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I just gotta say, if Anthony Sowell is found not guilty, then something is REALLY wrong with this legal system!

Anyone following that disgusting case? That happened about 30 miles from my home.
 

hiitdogs

Cathlete
Yes indeed, there are some bad police officers, but most of us are trying to do the best job that we can, despite people calling us liars and questioning our motives every time we turn around. You have obviously had some bad experiences, which is unfortunate, but to paint all of us with the same negative broad brush is not fair to those of us who put ourselves out on the line for you and your family every day. I invite you to spend some time in my shoes before you presume to understand what police officers are all about. :) And I beg to differ with you - there is no such thing as unlimited resources these days. Just ask the 10 police officers from my Department who received lay-off notices last week.
What I have said about my experience with police officers comes from personal experience where one of my family members was arrested on false accusations and the police officer was lying through his teeth in the police report. He started from a narrative of where he presumed guilt and then conducted his investigation to fit his narrative, if it didn't, he just twisted what was said and flat out lied. Nevermind, that what was claimed defies the laws of physics and space. And even though the State's own expert slammed the police officer for his conduct, the prosecutor refused to dismiss the case, stating "I have not lost a case in seven years" and tried to bully us into a plea which we refused because it is my conviction that you do not plea if you are innocent. From there I got involved with other cases that showed disturbing similarities that modern police work seems to start with a narrative, often by police detectives who think that they know a guilty person when they see one. My information is not from what the press says, in fact, I have found that the media in most cases that someone is arrested assumes guilt. My information is from actual cases that I since have become involved with. I don't believe the media one way or the other!
I am sure there are great police officers, detectives and prosecutors (I am sure you are one of them) but to be honest with what I have seen lately my trust in the American Justice system and police investigative work is about zero.

Until someone walks in the shoes of someone who is falsely accused or even worse convicted, they have no idea how much stress this puts on you emotionally, not to mention the financial strain to match the financial means of the state to defend yourself or your family member. Which is why often times people will agree to plea deals.

Current estimates are that 3 to 5 % of the imprisoned are actually innocent, based on the current prison population that is over 100,000. That does not include the ones that were falsely accused and had their lives turned upside down for months and years trying to defend themselves.

My experience is not "unfortunate", it was devestating and life changing, it left me in financial ruins, not to mention that it severely affected my health and exposed my whole family to harrassment and attacks because people usually assume where there is smoke, there is fire and when you get arrested you are guilty. I am sure there are guilty people who go free and that is wrong but to go back to Casey Anthony's case, the prosecution failed to prove guilt. That being said, a verdict of not guilty does not mean innocent, as juror # 3 correctly stated!
 
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JennieR

Cathlete
The issues of Casey Anthony, her clearly dysfunctional family, and whatever evidence the jury was actually presented with aside, I think more than anything else I was hoping to actually SEE Nancy Grace's head explode when the verdict came in.

But I really did think Nancy Grace's head was going to explode in the reaction to the verdict. I'm rather sorry it did not.
What family isn't dysfunctional? Maybe not as dysfunctional as the Anthony family, but most families are dysfunctional in their own way.

LOL. I'm not a big fan of NG, but I do get a chuckle out of some of the things she says.

I couldn't agree more. I have followed this case from day 1. I live in Florida and there has been coverage here for 3 years now. I watched the entire trial and thought there was plenty of evidence to prove her guilty. Do you have to have the murder on video to prove it these days? Do people think she actually drown in her pool?? That is crazy! This is O.J. all over again! She better hope that the judge keeps her in jail a while longer, it is the safest place she can be!
I've followed the case since day 1 too. I watched every day of the trial. And you're right, this is OJ all over again.

I so gotta agree with you on this. I do, however, have trouble with the jury not finding her guilty of child abuse. Maybe if the charge had been 'neglect'??? I don't know.
I believe she knows what happened to her child even if she isn't the actual killer...cause I believe she was murdered...and maybe accidentally...but murdered nonetheless.
Terribly disturbing the whole thing is.:(
Exactly. You don't report your DD missing for 31 days? Really? If that's not child abuse/neglect, I don't know what is.

I just gotta say, if Anthony Sowell is found not guilty, then something is REALLY wrong with this legal system!

Anyone following that disgusting case? That happened about 30 miles from my home.
Um, yeah. You just don't have 11 dead bodies in your backyard without knowing how they got there. Let's just hope the jury has a little more common sense then the jury in the CA case. :rolleyes:
 

hiitdogs

Cathlete
Exactly. You don't report your DD missing for 31 days? Really? If that's not child abuse/neglect, I don't know what is.



:rolleyes:
She was never charged with neglect. The jury could not convict her on that. She was charged with child abuse which is different.
 

JennieR

Cathlete
She was never charged with neglect. The jury could not convict her on that. She was charged with child abuse which is different.
What I'm saying is, what more proof do they need? A mother does NOT go 31 days without reporting that their child is missing. That to me equals abuse.
 

pinkquinn

Cathlete
I have a hard time believing that a mother who parties the night away while her daughter is dead is NOT guilty.

She seems completely self absorbed and I believe she felt entitled to her "freedom".

I feel like there was plenty of motive considering personality disorder, and plenty of circumstantial evidence. I don't think people like to believe that such evil can exist in a mother, and that is why the jurors stuck their heads in the sand.

I have never seen or heard of any mother behaving that way after a child's death. I don't this she is just really unique in how she was dealing with it. I think she felt free to live the beautiful life....I am so sad and so disgusted.
 

MidgetDogg

Cathlete
I was disappointed, but not surprised by the verdict. It all boils down to the prosecution just didn't have enough evidence and the jury took their job seriously. They may have believed she did it, but it wasn't proven. As one of them said, they didn't know exactly what crime was committed and without that - how can you decide the punishment?

If she didn't do it, then it's good they acquitted. If she did (I believe she did), then we can only take comfort in that she will never have a real life and God knows what she did. Can you imagine what it will be like being that family? There is no place they can go where they won't be recognized and hated.

If I was her mother, I wouldn't want her coming back to live with me. Especially after she threw her father and brother under the bus like that.
 

MidgetDogg

Cathlete
I have a hard time believing that a mother who parties the night away while her daughter is dead is NOT guilty.

She seems completely self absorbed and I believe she felt entitled to her "freedom".

I feel like there was plenty of motive considering personality disorder, and plenty of circumstantial evidence. I don't think people like to believe that such evil can exist in a mother, and that is why the jurors stuck their heads in the sand.

I have never seen or heard of any mother behaving that way after a child's death. I don't this she is just really unique in how she was dealing with it. I think she felt free to live the beautiful life....I am so sad and so disgusted.

You're so right! Think about how you react when your 2 year old is out of your sight for 2 minutes. You're a mess if you can't find her, right? If I haven't seen my 11 year old for a couple hours in the house, I go to make sure she's still here (she always is). She hid on my in the grocery store once when she was 3 and I was verging on a panic attack. There's no way she wasn't involved in what happened there. And a cop making the decision to make an accident look like a murder? HUH???? That's just the most ridiculous thing I've heard.
 

Fit_mommy

Cathlete
You're so right! Think about how you react when your 2 year old is out of your sight for 2 minutes. You're a mess if you can't find her, right? If I haven't seen my 11 year old for a couple hours in the house, I go to make sure she's still here (she always is). She hid on my in the grocery store once when she was 3 and I was verging on a panic attack.
OMG how I can panic when I can't find my son for just 30 seconds...EVEN IN MY OWN HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!:eek:
 

pinkquinn

Cathlete
I have nightmares that I cant find my kids and I aaaaaallllways know where there are. One time they hid on me in the house and I was screaming at neighbors to see if they had seen them, and when I lost them is the grocery store.....please.... I had no shame. I was screaming their names and grabbing employees.

By her reaction, in my mind she is capable of murder, and her lust for partying was the motive. (plus I think she was mad at her mom)
 

PhyllisG

Cathlete
Guilty. No reasonable doubt in my mind. Anyone who is a parent knows the panic they feel when they can't find their child. My son fell in a deep hole in our garden when he was 2 years and I screamed so loudly all the neighbors came running. I can't go out if I can't find my cat for a few hours. Interesting thought--she was mad at her mother. I can see that as being a motivating factor.
 
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bonvivant

Cathlete
I so gotta agree with you on this. I do, however, have trouble with the jury not finding her guilty of child abuse. Maybe if the charge had been 'neglect'??? I don't know.
I believe she knows what happened to her child even if she isn't the actual killer...cause I believe she was murdered...and maybe accidentally...but murdered nonetheless.
Terribly disturbing the whole thing is.:(
Casey was originally charged with neglect, but the charge was dropped when Caylee turned up dead. They couldn't legally charge her with neglect of a dead child. The child abuse charge stemmed from the murder charges. If she had been found guilty of murder, she would've been found guilty of child abuse. Because the jury felt there was no evidence to support Casey harming Caylee, they couldn't convict.

The problem with the prosecution was they had no evidence circumstantial or otherwise to connect Casey to actual harm of Caylee. The closest they had was evidence, with the strongest not meeting Daubert standards, that Casey disposed of a body, most likely Caylee's.

For anyone curious, here are the jury instructions: Jury Instructions in the Casey Anthony Trial – In Session: - CNN.com Blogs This might give more insight into why they voted "not guilty". Having served on juries before, it isn't an easy job. No matter how you might feel about a case or defendant, you have to find if the evidence meets the standard of proof. The law is the law. The verdict wasn't what I wanted, but as a citizen I believe it is more important to allow the process to work than get my way. I think the prosecution and jury did the best they could with what they had. It was easy for Baez to establish reasonable doubt. BTW, the OJ case wasn't like this. The prosecution had ample evidence that could link OJ to the crime, but Johnny Cochran was really good at creating alternate theories to the crime. OJ was a clear case of being "out lawyered" not lack of evidence.
 

lrusso

Cathlete
It may be different from the O.J. case, but the end result is the same, they both got away with MURDER!!
 

JeanneMarie

Cathlete
For anyone curious, here are the jury instructions: Jury Instructions in the Casey Anthony Trial – In Session: - CNN.com Blogs This might give more insight into why they voted "not guilty". Having served on juries before, it isn't an easy job. No matter how you might feel about a case or defendant, you have to find if the evidence meets the standard of proof. The law is the law.
I've been in a similar situation on a jury, and you are exactly right. (The case I served on was child molestation, not murder... but still...)

As a juror, you have to decide whether guilt was proved, not whether you think she did it. It's a tough pill to swallow sometimes.
 

Fidget Queen

Cathlete
I was disappointed, but not surprised by the verdict. It all boils down to the prosecution just didn't have enough evidence and the jury took their job seriously. They may have believed she did it, but it wasn't proven. As one of them said, they didn't know exactly what crime was committed and without that - how can you decide the punishment?

If she didn't do it, then it's good they acquitted. If she did (I believe she did), then we can only take comfort in that she will never have a real life and God knows what she did. Can you imagine what it will be like being that family? There is no place they can go where they won't be recognized and hated.

If I was her mother, I wouldn't want her coming back to live with me. Especially after she threw her father and brother under the bus like that.

Yeah, that. Mostly. I am not disgusted by the jury, I am disappointed that the prosecution couldn't produce more evidence. I think most of us are correct to believe she is guilty, as her behavior is horrifying. Everything about this woman and the circumstances SCREAMS guilty. I wonder if had this not been public, if the jury wouldn't have been so afraid of making the "wrong" decision? I feel that because this was so incredibly public, that if the jury convicted this woman, and for some reason evidence surfaced to show that it was not her, they would be humiliated. I think that a jury in a more private case would have been quicker to send this woman to jail. I'm not saying that's right or wrong by any means, just a thought.

However, do not take comfort in thinking that she won't be able to get on with her life. She is one sick, disgusting puppy. And having intimately known more than one narcissistic sociopath, I can guarantee you that she will not waste a moment feeling guilty or even bad over her child's death. She hasn't mourned in the last three years, she certainly won't start now. She will be perfectly capable of ignoring the hatred towards her and basking in the glory of the attention (good or bad) that she has/will receive. She will play victim until it no longer serves her, and then she will move onto the next thing that will garner her attention (and victim status). Do not think she will be eaten alive about this as other humans would. She will not. Her behavior is textbook and scarily familiar to me.
 

kims

Cathlete
However, do not take comfort in thinking that she won't be able to get on with her life. She is one sick, disgusting puppy. And having intimately known more than one narcissistic sociopath, I can guarantee you that she will not waste a moment feeling guilty or even bad over her child's death. She hasn't mourned in the last three years, she certainly won't start now. She will be perfectly capable of ignoring the hatred towards her and basking in the glory of the attention (good or bad) that she has/will receive. She will play victim until it no longer serves her, and then she will move onto the next thing that will garner her attention (and victim status). Do not think she will be eaten alive about this as other humans would. She will not. Her behavior is textbook and scarily familiar to me.
Yeah, I think you are so right. But I can't help but think it would be hell living in this kind of mind even if they don't seem to care.
It seems like a terrible state to be in. No comfort, cause they can't give any. Never finding lasting happiness since they can't give it and don't even know what it is or that it's important... iykwim.
 

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