Can you lose fat while trying to gain muscle?
- Thread starter pgun
- Start date
Stebby
Cathlete
Absolutely!
Yes, you can gradually change your body composition through your diet and exercise. There's no rule that says you have to take all the fat off first, then build muscle. There have been lots of stories on this forum where people started working out, and found that their clothes were getting looser but their weight was staying exactly the same - that's fat going down and muscle going up.
Here's my experience with this. Last year I bought myself 10 weeks of personal training & nutritional consultation as a Christmas present. On the nutritionist's advice, I kept my calories the same but the percentage of protein and decreased the percentage of carbs. With the trainer, and with my Cathe workouts, I gradually increased my weights. (My goal for the training had been to break through my strength plateaus - I had been lifting the same for over a year.) Over the 10 weeks, I lost 10 lbs of fat and put on 9 lbs of muscle. I looked and felt better. Unfortunately I couldn't afford to continue with the personal trainer, so I have gone back to being my own personal trainer, along with my other video-based personal trainers including Cathe!
Stebby
Yes, you can gradually change your body composition through your diet and exercise. There's no rule that says you have to take all the fat off first, then build muscle. There have been lots of stories on this forum where people started working out, and found that their clothes were getting looser but their weight was staying exactly the same - that's fat going down and muscle going up.
Here's my experience with this. Last year I bought myself 10 weeks of personal training & nutritional consultation as a Christmas present. On the nutritionist's advice, I kept my calories the same but the percentage of protein and decreased the percentage of carbs. With the trainer, and with my Cathe workouts, I gradually increased my weights. (My goal for the training had been to break through my strength plateaus - I had been lifting the same for over a year.) Over the 10 weeks, I lost 10 lbs of fat and put on 9 lbs of muscle. I looked and felt better. Unfortunately I couldn't afford to continue with the personal trainer, so I have gone back to being my own personal trainer, along with my other video-based personal trainers including Cathe!
Stebby
workoutaholic
Cathlete
I don't really know this answer to this myself, but here's what Tom Venuto says in Burn The Fat, Feed the Muscle:
One of the most common obstacles blocking the way to reaching a goal is setting two
goals that are in conflict. In the case of fat loss, the most common conflicting goal is
trying to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. It’s common to see a large decrease
in body fat accompanied by a slight increase in lean body mass. It is also common to see
a large increase in lean body mass accompanied by a slight decrease in body fat. But one
thing you will almost never see is a large increase in lean body mass and a large decrease
in body fat simultaneously. It is physiologically impossible to lose fat and gain muscle at
the same precise moment in time. In order to lose fat you need a calorie deficit. To gain
lean body mass you need a calorie surplus. One process is catabolic and one is anabolic.
Therefore, there are big differences in the types of nutritional programs you need to
achieve each of these contrasting goals.
Seems like some people are able to do it, though!
Oh, he also says this:
Here’s an illustration: The average man with a daily maintenance level of 2800 calories needs approximately 500 calories extra to gain weight – a total of 3300 per day. To lose weight, he needs about a 500-calorie deficit – a total of only 2300 calories per
day. The difference between these two nutrition programs is 1000 calories! They are at completely opposite ends of the spectrum. There are several situations where gaining large amounts of muscle and losing large amounts of fat can occur at the same time:
1) When steroids and/or fat burning drugs are used.
2) In beginners, whose bodies are extremely responsive to exercise (some of the
rapid muscle and strength gains in beginners can be attributed to neurological
adaptations).
3) In advanced trainees after a long layoff (the muscle gain can be attributed to
"muscle memory” i.e., they are not gaining new muscle, they are simply regaining
what they previously lost).
4) In genetic superiors
One of the most common obstacles blocking the way to reaching a goal is setting two
goals that are in conflict. In the case of fat loss, the most common conflicting goal is
trying to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. It’s common to see a large decrease
in body fat accompanied by a slight increase in lean body mass. It is also common to see
a large increase in lean body mass accompanied by a slight decrease in body fat. But one
thing you will almost never see is a large increase in lean body mass and a large decrease
in body fat simultaneously. It is physiologically impossible to lose fat and gain muscle at
the same precise moment in time. In order to lose fat you need a calorie deficit. To gain
lean body mass you need a calorie surplus. One process is catabolic and one is anabolic.
Therefore, there are big differences in the types of nutritional programs you need to
achieve each of these contrasting goals.
Seems like some people are able to do it, though!
Oh, he also says this:
Here’s an illustration: The average man with a daily maintenance level of 2800 calories needs approximately 500 calories extra to gain weight – a total of 3300 per day. To lose weight, he needs about a 500-calorie deficit – a total of only 2300 calories per
day. The difference between these two nutrition programs is 1000 calories! They are at completely opposite ends of the spectrum. There are several situations where gaining large amounts of muscle and losing large amounts of fat can occur at the same time:
1) When steroids and/or fat burning drugs are used.
2) In beginners, whose bodies are extremely responsive to exercise (some of the
rapid muscle and strength gains in beginners can be attributed to neurological
adaptations).
3) In advanced trainees after a long layoff (the muscle gain can be attributed to
"muscle memory” i.e., they are not gaining new muscle, they are simply regaining
what they previously lost).
4) In genetic superiors
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Stebby
Cathlete
I think that Tom Venuto's perspective is interesting, but I think he is missing part of the big picture. I'm not sure what his qualifications are, but what he is saying directly goes against what I and others have experienced, as well as what I have learned in my years of fitness instructor and nutrition training. Disclaimer - I don't have a university degree in any of this stuff, but I do have 25 years of taking college level courses for interest and to maintain my certifications.
If you reduce calories, you reduce body weight (not necessarily body fat). If you add calories, you add body weight (not necessarily lean muscle mass). I think he is confusing reducing weight on the scale with losing fat, and confusing adding weight on the scale with adding muscle. To lose or add the right type of tissue, I think you need the correct balance of nutrients built into your target calorie intake. Your calorie intake and expenditure through activity determine what your body will weigh (relative to your own personal physiology). The cleanliness of your diet and the relative proportions of macronutrients will determine how much fat and muscle your body will have. If you change any of these variables your body will change.
Stebby
If you reduce calories, you reduce body weight (not necessarily body fat). If you add calories, you add body weight (not necessarily lean muscle mass). I think he is confusing reducing weight on the scale with losing fat, and confusing adding weight on the scale with adding muscle. To lose or add the right type of tissue, I think you need the correct balance of nutrients built into your target calorie intake. Your calorie intake and expenditure through activity determine what your body will weigh (relative to your own personal physiology). The cleanliness of your diet and the relative proportions of macronutrients will determine how much fat and muscle your body will have. If you change any of these variables your body will change.
Stebby
workoutaholic
Cathlete
Venuto is an all-natural bodybuilder, trainer, and author of a few books and hundreds of bodybuilding/weight loss articles. From his site:
...has a degree in exercise science and two certifications; "Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist" (CSCS) and “Certified Personal Trainer” from the National Strength & Conditioning Association (NSCA). I’m also a current member of the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM), and the International Society for Sports Nutrition (ISSN).
I don't agree that he is confused on the issue you mentioned. His book, Burn the Fat Feed the Muscle is very well written and researched, and goes into this issue (reduction of body fat and increase in muscle) in great detail, with lots of references.
However, everyone is different, and your results are great!
...has a degree in exercise science and two certifications; "Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist" (CSCS) and “Certified Personal Trainer” from the National Strength & Conditioning Association (NSCA). I’m also a current member of the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM), and the International Society for Sports Nutrition (ISSN).
I don't agree that he is confused on the issue you mentioned. His book, Burn the Fat Feed the Muscle is very well written and researched, and goes into this issue (reduction of body fat and increase in muscle) in great detail, with lots of references.
However, everyone is different, and your results are great!
LizN
Cathlete
My answer is :
It depends: If you're carrying a large % bodyfat and trying to lean down, it's entirely possible to make muscle gains during the process. It's another story when you're down around the 15-16% mark and you're prepping for a bodybuilding comp - the goal being to maintain as much muscle as you can whilst you are leaning out.
So I would say that most people fall into the middle somewhere -depending on your starting stats, you may or you may not.
Cheers
Liz N
It depends: If you're carrying a large % bodyfat and trying to lean down, it's entirely possible to make muscle gains during the process. It's another story when you're down around the 15-16% mark and you're prepping for a bodybuilding comp - the goal being to maintain as much muscle as you can whilst you are leaning out.
So I would say that most people fall into the middle somewhere -depending on your starting stats, you may or you may not.
Cheers
Liz N
Sonya Arellano
Cathlete
Since I have been following BFFM I have seen great results!
krassymira
Cathlete
What is BFFM?
DirtDiva
Cathlete
I agree with you Stebby. I have Venuto's e-book and read it completely. Its a good book, although there's a bit of fluff to it. I believe its also intended for figure athletes and male bodybuilders, not the average person or even the *toned* individual. Women are obviously different from men when it comes to losing fat and gaining muscle and after reading the section that I needed to pick one goal, it discouraged me to a certain point. I decided to follow full body workouts, continue with my cycling and eat clean and I have lost 20 pounds of fat. My back density has grown by 3 inches, my legs are lean at 22 inches and I have regained a good deal of my glutes and quads from riding all summer while losing weight. This is my experience, and I'm not discounting anyone else or the book. I just don't believe in absolutes. I picked out what I wanted from the book and learned some good points, and then conformed it to my use.
Sonya Arellano
Cathlete
krassymira
Cathlete
Sonya, is that a program?
dbelden1
Cathlete
Sorry, not trying to butt in here, but I have been doing some research on the BFFM stuff... Here's the link that explains... it is an ebook and some like it and get use out of it, and others don't. I figure everyone is different.
http://www.burnthefat.com/
Dela
Cathlete
I bought the ebook too, I agree the book made sense for the most part, but was a bit hard core. Tom Venuto, the author is coming out with a printed book in January, he said it's toned down quite a bit and focused toward the general person who wants to lose fat and get/stay fit. I have it on pre-order now on amazon, it's worth a read. I really need to get my eating under control and figure out some kind of game plan. I want to see what STS can really do, and I won't see any results if I keep my food the same as it has been.
workoutaholic
Cathlete
Yeah I totally agree, that's what I liked about BFFM the most. Venuto addresses the brain aspect, which if we who can't consistently do what we know we should don't address, we probably won't be able to change for life.
And his new book is supposed to be even more focused on that aspect, I can't wait to get it!
Oh, and Chalean Extreme comes with a motivational CD that helps with this, I think that gets forgotten way too much with weight loss programs!
And his new book is supposed to be even more focused on that aspect, I can't wait to get it!
Oh, and Chalean Extreme comes with a motivational CD that helps with this, I think that gets forgotten way too much with weight loss programs!