Anti-Gay Sentiment Surprise. An "Ugh" rant.

[SirenSongWoman]

Hard line Christians are taught that people are born heterosexual and that those who call themselves homosexuals are slapping God in the face by choosing a "lifestyle" which goes against God's intention. Those of us who feel differently know that homosexuals no more "choose" their orientation than do heterosexuals and we may consider their views rooted in ignorance. But most of us weren't raised with hard line Christian beliefs and have had the advantage of being allowed to question what is or may be the truth, from an early age. It's very hard for people who grew up with what is in-effect a kind of group-think.

If church-going Christians start questioning the rightness of their beliefs on this topic than that may lead to questioning the rightness of the belief system on which they've built their whole lives! Doing so would make them outcasts among their community. It's a lot to ask, especially when they've been raised to believe the reward for questioning is eternal damnation. Not having gay people in their lives who feel at ease explaining how it feels for them (without being chided for being "wrong" or "ungodly") doesn't help. Most gay people just don't want to hear it, especially the one's who know God made them as they are and who, themselves, feel a close personal relationship with God, regardless of what others choose to believe.

Some people are just so hogtied by their belief systems that I think the onus is on those of us who aren't bound to be patient and sensitive. Are they ignorant? Sure. But they often can't help it because they just don't know any better. Most gay people, once they get over being told they're going to Hell (by people who can't possibly really know that...), understand this and have sympathy. It's a good example to follow.

 

[SirenSongWoman]

So sad. My uncle has not spoken to his only son in over 30 years, when my cousin came out to him. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that he stopped speaking to me several months ago when he learned that the man I love is black. Sad

Your uncle is going to be a very lonely old man. Sad.

 

[morningstar]

They can't change it, just like people can't change the color of their skin (unless your name is Michael Jackson, of course )

Carola, you may not be aware that Michael Jackson's autopsy showed that he did indeed have the disease that bleached his skin that he always said he had. If you were aware of that, that would be a fairly insensitive remark, that I doubt you would say about someone that wasn't Michael Jackson.

 

[hiitdogs]

Carola, you may not be aware that Michael Jackson's autopsy showed that he did indeed have the disease that bleached his skin that he always said he had. If you were aware of that, that would be a fairly insensitive remark, that I doubt you would say about someone that wasn't Michael Jackson.

And this coming from the Queen of Insensitive It's nice that I can always count on you to put me in my place.

But I apologize to everyone I have offended by my attempt of a joke.

 

[Gayle]

And this coming from the Queen of Insensitive It's nice that I can always count on you to put me in my place.

But I apologize to everyone I have offended by my attempt of a joke.

Gee whiz, Carola, didn't you realize MJ's autopsy report was required reading?

 

[Liann]

 

[Gayle]

Heeeheeeee!

 

[hiitdogs]

Gee whiz, Carola, didn't you realize MJ's autopsy report was required reading?

Oops! Didn't get the memo

 

[pixiesis]

I have no idea how we are now talking about MJ's autopsy!

Anyway, I don't want to insult any Christians reading this by suggesting that they are unenlightened about this issue. I completely and vehemently disagree with anti-gay sentiment, whether it is religious in nature or otherwise, but again, I don't think it's my job to convince anyone that my views are "correct" and theirs aren't. It's a boring argument and one that ends up in circles. It brings out intolerance and dogmatic tendencies on both sides.

In the meantime, society will move on as it always has, and progress is inevitable. Whatever people's views of homosexuality are, we will all have to accept that gay people, like past subjugated groups, will have equal rights. One day, some of the people who oppose equal rights for gays will regret it, but arguing with these people today won't change their minds.

 

[LaughingWater]

Diane, thanks for that post.

Amy, I like what you said about progress being inevitable, despite the roadblocks we run into today. I was telling my daughters as we were walking to the polls on Nov. 4th that the momentum of change depends on every generation that follows.

I'm curious to see if the revelation about my brother will make things weird between the family in my original post and ours. So far, all seems normal. The mother emailed me as usual to make plans for next week, so that's a good sign.

 

[lori254]

Same-sex marriage has been legal in Canada for several years now, although the redneck (IMHO) Province of Alberta, where I live, had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century. The PC government was vehemently opposed at the time, but finally recanted and now all our gay and Lesbian brothers and sisters can enjoy the freedom to marry the one they love.

 

[fitlulu]

Hard line Christians are taught that people are born heterosexual and that those who call themselves homosexuals are slapping God in the face by choosing a "lifestyle" which goes against God's intention. Those of us who feel differently know that homosexuals no more "choose" their orientation than do heterosexuals and we may consider their views rooted in ignorance. But most of us weren't raised with hard line Christian beliefs and have had the advantage of being allowed to question what is or may be the truth, from an early age. It's very hard for people who grew up with what is in-effect a kind of group-think.

If church-going Christians start questioning the rightness of their beliefs on this topic than that may lead to questioning the rightness of the belief system on which they've built their whole lives! Doing so would make them outcasts among their community. It's a lot to ask, especially when they've been raised to believe the reward for questioning is eternal damnation. Not having gay people in their lives who feel at ease explaining how it feels for them (without being chided for being "wrong" or "ungodly") doesn't help. Most gay people just don't want to hear it, especially the one's who know God made them as they are and who, themselves, feel a close personal relationship with God, regardless of what others choose to believe.

Some people are just so hogtied by their belief systems that I think the onus is on those of us who aren't bound to be patient and sensitive. Are they ignorant? Sure. But they often can't help it because they just don't know any better. Most gay people, once they get over being told they're going to Hell (by people who can't possibly really know that...), understand this and have sympathy. It's a good example to follow.

Just an "ignorant" Christian here--

In my ignorance, I don't understand why it's wrong to believe what the Bible tells me, but would be right to believe what "those of us who feel differently" say. Unfortunately, just like with any group of people, a bad few have given all of us a bad rap.

Even though I don't support the gay lifestyle, I would not say something belittling or hateful to another person. Most often, I can agree to disagree with the people I meet in my everyday life, and not judge them because that's not for me to do. My church has taught me to hate the sin, love the sinner, and that if you want to save someone's soul, it will be done through love--hate will only turn them away.

 

[kathryn]

I don't support the gay lifestyle...

I think one issue is here: in the concept of being gay being a lifestyle (and thus a choice).

Whoever and whatever created humans beings created some of them gay: they don't have a choice in the matter, and it's not a lifestyle (Though as the researcher Kinsey found out, humans are on a spectrum from being 100% hetrosexual in their attraction to being 100% homosexual in their attraction. Most people are somewhere between the two extremes, and those who are maybe "60% hetero/40% homo" might be seen as being able to 'choose' one or the other).

 

[LaughingWater]

Exactly. It's not a choice. It's not a "lifestyle". My brother has said that if he could change this one thing about himself, he would because it would make life so much easier.

For those of you who think homosexuality is a choice, did you choose to be heterosexual?

 

[fitlulu]

I do believe it's a choice. As a Bible believing Christian, I believe engaging in gay sexual acts is a sin, and therefore is a choice. I'm not pointing any fingers, as I am not without sin--just trying to explain why I believe it's a choice.

 

[pixiesis]

I do believe it's a choice. As a Bible believing Christian, I believe engaging in gay sexual acts is a sin, and therefore is a choice. I'm not pointing any fingers, as I am not without sin--just trying to explain why I believe it's a choice.

And this is the heart of the disagreement. You see it as a "choice" and a "sin", we don't. It's an impasse. Of course, you are entitled to feel this way (though I think it's really sad and unfortunate, since it alienates those who feel otherwise, and make us perceive you as judgmental, condemning, and unsympathetic, which isn't necessarily true).

Again, I just don't want these kinds of viewpoints to be used to justify continued injustice against gay people.

 

[jonahnah]

Some religions used to believe that that being left handed was an indication of sinfulness and a godless nature. Some religions still believe this and beat lefties mercilessly for choosing to not use their right hand. Anyone else see a correlation here?

 

[pixiesis]

Some religions used to believe that that being left handed was an indication of sinfulness and a godless nature. Some religions still believe this and beat lefties mercilessly for choosing to not use their right hand. Anyone else see a correlation here?

Yep. And I'm a lefty! (literally AND figuratively).

 

[Aquajock]

Some religions used to believe that that being left handed was an indication of sinfulness and a godless nature. Some religions still believe this and beat lefties mercilessly for choosing to not use their right hand. Anyone else see a correlation here?

Excellent analogy, Joanie-Boo.

While we're on the subject, has anyone noticed that the Anti-Gay Squad routinely goes into a Code-3 Shitfit anytime two peaceful, consenting-adult-type homosexuals want to get married (to each other), routinely invoking the Bible in their screeds, and yet when a 50-plus-something "religious leader" is demonstrated to have not only participated in but advocated and promoted the forced concubinage of girlchildren (Warren Jeffs of that grotesque "FLDS" sect), the same group so interested in preserving greater society's values is thunderously silent?

Also, has anyone noticed the contradiction in the fact that even the vilest woman-murderers (like Jeffrey MacDonald, who slaughtered his pregnant wife and two daughters in 1970 and remains in prison to this day for those crimes) can and do get married after their crimes, but two peaceful, consenting-adult-type homosexuals cannot get married (to each other)? And again, there is no roar of protest from the religious right that a woman-murderer (or man-murderer) can marry again.

The world is indeed an absurd and tiresome place.

A-Jock

 

[lori254]

A lot of heinous acts against humanity have occurred in the name of religion, no? As part of my own intellectual growth, I participated in a two-year Bible study...some pretty scary stuff in there! The God of my understanding is gentle, kind, loving...I could never believe in a punishing, guilt-inducing God.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why sexual orientation is anyone else's business...I really just don't get it