Amazon selling dogfighting DVD

What I find really interesting is that Amazon is trying to act like they won't 'censor' material just because it is considered 'objectionable' by some. However, I don't see where anyone can purchase subscriptions for pornographic magazines(I don't mean Playboy)or pornographic videos. Those magazines and videos are LEGAL...why can't anyone by them at Amazon? I wonder why not. It may be because the magazine company/'film' company doesn't want it sold through Amazon, but maybe not....

Oh well, they've already lost my business.
 
I sent a letter to Amazon last night and will post any reply I receive, if anyone in interested.

Lorie, loved loved LOVED! your reply to their 'form' email. Of course it is about money. When is it never about money?

Susan L.G.
 
I got the same form answer from Amazon. I wrote them back. If anyone else gets the form letter and wants to write again, be sure to go back to their web site under Customer Service and email from there. The email they send can't be responded to directly except to check "yes" or "no" if it answered your question. If I was disgusted before, I was even more outraged after reading their response. I don't know how they think that bunch of gibberish would make anyone feel that what they are doing is okay!

Anyway - here's what I wrote to Amazon.

Your answer - and Amazon's position - is completely unacceptable.

Do you also plan to carry publications on how to use heroin and how to break into peoples' houses?

Dogfighting and cockfighting are AGAINST THE LAW and carrying these publications is beyond just something that people find "objectionable."

This is not about "opinions" or "censorship" it is about the LAW.

Just because there is freedom to carry a publication, it does not mean you must carry it or you are violating First Amendment rights.

Freedom also brings CHOICE with it, and Amazon has clearly chosen profit over decency and morality.

I will continue to boycott Amazon until these publications are removed, and I am actively encouraging everyone I know to do the same
 
Small correction - I just went back to original email from Amazon. If you click "No" that their response didn't answer your question, it takes you to options to either have them call you or to email them again. So I posted this email there too. I hope it will wake some people up at that company. I am glad the Humane Society of the U.S. is taking them to court over this!
 
I am totally blown away by Amazon's response. How can they even compare not selling a video that shows ILLEGAL acts to censorship??? I hope the Humane Society sticks it to them!
 
<So it seems Amazon.com has no shame about making money.>

And what will people say when they learn their libraries may have books on marijuana? What about books on gay and lesbian parenting? What about books on how to get out of speeding tickets? What about other possible controversial and/or distasteful topics? Should freedom of speech only entail what the powers that be find tasteful and suitable to their sensibilities? Are you cool with your tax dollars purchasing materials of which you may not agree with the content (they have to purchase the materials from somewhere, possibly Amazon)? Can you accept that freedom of speech may include hearing and seeing things you don't agree with? Do you think that your library or your bookseller are actively promoting these things because they provide access?


I was planning to stay out of the discussion because I really am not cool with anyone selling this dog fighting crap and I am unlikely to make a personal purchase from Amazon anytime soon (my personal opinion) but I do worry about the possible descent down a slippery slope to censorship particularly since we have made what I consider a very big leap from dog fighting to mary jane. This issue has been cropping up on a few listservs I subscribe to and we nerdy librarians think about these things. I have to wonder about some of the possible implications. My intent is certainly not to pick on eminemz, just using her comment to illustrate my concern. I am also not interested in starting a flame war but I hope people will give some consideration, whether or not they agree, to these issues.
 
I feel compelled to reply. Growing marijuana or not is a choice I make. No one is forcing me to do it. These poor dogs used in dogfighting are just being cruelly used as are the bait animals. Did they choose to be involved? I am sorry but this censorship arguement doesn't work for me. We already have censorship--pornography involving children for instance and rightly so. Amazon could simply make a choice NOT to sell items that glorify the destruction of other creatures in a cruel and inhumane manner. It has nothing to do with being against censorship for amazon. It has to do with making a buck. I hope the Humane Society and PETA gets on their case about this.
 
I think it also worth pointing out that censorship is when the government prohibits publishing or selling a publication. Censorship is NOT when a company decides not to carry something that has information about an illegal activity - or when citizens and customers request/demand that these materials not be carried by a business.
 
How did you contact them? I went to the website but I couldn't find where you email them. I have two pit bulls so this whole issues makes me so angry. I would love to give them a piece of my mind! Let me know.
Thanks
Nicole
 
I found Beavs comments very thought-provoking and it is very clear that her comments have been misinterpreted.

Just for clarification, I think we ALL agree that dog / cock fighting is reprehensible, inhumane and shouldn't be glorified.

Having said that, I believe that there are a lot of things that are reprehensible. For example, I am as anti-death-penalty as you can find, I think there should be gun control (as a matter of fact, I think guns shouldn't be put in the hands of private citizens, period!), I am against the exploitation of animals, I am pro-gay-rights, I am against the almost limitless power of the pharmaceutical industry .......

The thing is, you need to put the "fight" or your resources where things CAN be changed. A bookseller or a library is the wrong place to attack. They cannot nor should they censor, they have an obligation to make things available as controversial as they may be.

Say, I want to do a research on pro-gay or anti-gay rights, I would like to have EVERYTHING available that's out there, if the bookseller/library makes literature unavailable based on public pressure or majority public consensus, I think it would do a great disservice for anyone who wants to have a multi-faceted view of a particular subject.

Just to make this clear, I am totally against dog fighting, I think anyone participating should be punished to the full extent of the law and I don't think the law on the books is drastic enough, but that is a different subject. It was pretty clear from Beavs' statements that she finds dog fighting just as reprehensible.

Quite frankly, if I was doing research on dog fighting, I would like to know what exactly we are talking about, would I probably start puking looking at the literature/DVDs and get furious at the people who are involved, would I want to tar and feather them and throw my normal belief about anti-death-penalty out the window, probably, but I would like to be able to get the full picture, the good, the bad, the ugly, from both sides, if I were to do a paper or report on it.

But I would expect my bookseller or library to be able to deliver anything that is legally available - yes!!!!!!

The danger in trying to force a bookseller or library to only carry material that we, the general public approves of, will result in censorship (censorship is not only government controlled) and limited information. Where would it stop??

To me, coming from a country which was divided the into the communist East and the capitalistic West from the time before I was born until a few years before I immigrated to the US, free speech is very important. Whereas I had the priviledge to grow up in the West, I visited the Eastern part of Germany on many occassions and going there was no walk in the park, going there meant, you keep your mouth shut or you may find yourself in prison (and anyone who knows me, also knows keeping my mouth shut is a challenge :) ). I spent 48 hours in a East German "holding camp" for not wearing a seat belt when I crossed the border and I would NOT want to go there again!

Free speech is a big one for me. The way I see it, only if you can let someone climb on a soapbox proclaiming at the top of their lungs what you have spent a lifetime opposing at the top of your lungs, then you can stand up in your class rooms and sing of the Land of the Free!! And hold that opportunity in high regard, because there are countries that do NOT have that opportunity!

Well, that was a little bit off subject, what I am trying to say though, take your opposition and your fights to the appropriate places, asking a bookseller or library to censor based on popular demand, is the wrong place, in my opinion!
 
>Growing marijuana or not is a choice I make. No one is forcing me to do it. These poor dogs used in dogfighting are just being cruelly used as are the bait animals. Did they choose to be involved? I am sorry but this censorship arguement doesn't work for me. We already have censorship--pornography involving children for instance and rightly so. Amazon could simply make a choice NOT
>to sell items that glorify the destruction of other creatures
>in a cruel and inhumane manner. It has nothing to do with
>being against censorship for amazon. It has to do with making
>a buck. I hope the Humane Society and PETA gets on their case
>about this.

I understand what you are saying and I think you have a valid point. Those dogs do not have a choice. It is horrible, it is dispicable, it is all those things!

However, I don't know if you are a vegetarian or vegan, or if you eat meat, fish, eggs, etc. Animals that are used for human consumption (I know it sounds horrible) are not making that choice either. I am contending that the way animals are treated to bring a piece of steak on our table, is just as horrible as dog fighting.

So where would we go with that, boycott the bookseller / library because they sell non-vegetarian cookbooks with how to prepare steak, roast, fish .... In a way, most cookbooks will "glorify" the destruction of other creatures in a cruel and inhumane manner.

Going with the point that you are making, however, if you are vegetarian/vegan you should be up in arms about any non-vegetarian cookbook that is carried by a bookseller/library. If you do eat meat, it is the destruction of another creature in a cruel and inhumane manner and you are making the choice of condoning it.

I am not trying to be sarcastic or start a flame war. I think I am just as much of a hypocrit in that respect as most of us are. We go up in arms about dog fighting (and rightfully so) but what about all those animals that are slaughtered in the most inhumane and despicible manner so we get our steak on the table??? Do those cows, sheep, lamb ..... have a choice??

To take it to the extreme, where are we going with this, boycott Amazon because they are selling non-vegetarian cookbooks?

May sound ridiculous to some but if you really think about it ......
 
Just to be clear what we are talking about- this is a quote from the HSUS press release:

"Amazon's business dealings with The Feathered Warrior, the Underground Pit Breeders Association and other peddlers of animal-fighting paraphernalia are as sickening as they are unlawful," stated Jonathan R. Lovvorn, vice president of Animal Protection Litigation for The HSUS. "There is no First Amendment protection for those that profit from the sale of animal cruelty videos, nor does free speech include the right to sell publications that are nothing more than a collection of criminal solicitations."

These are not DVDs and publications that just TALK about dogfighting, they actually show dogfighting which is against the law. That makes the producers a party to a criminal activity.

The press release also notes that Amazon has removed other materials such as Nazi literature without any requirement that they do so. Why are they digging their heels in about this?
 
I agree Carolyn. To me, this isn't about the fact that I 'object' to animal cruelty...animal fighting is ILLEGAL. Being a vegetarian, pro-gay, anti-gay, vegan, anti-death penalty, pro-death penalty, anti-gun control, pro-gun control, etc. is not ILLEGAL. Of course, I expect and agree that Amazon should carry books that promote, discuss, etc. all those subjects. I DO NOT think they should remove ANY book or material JUST because someone finds it objectionable.

However, I also don't think they should profit off of the sale of materials that show the abuse of animals. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there are plenty of materials that deal with 'objectionable' topics that they don't carry(pornography?) and I would like to know why. I am quite sure they would make a LOT more money if they did carry those things...so why not? Of course, they aren't obligated to sell pornography and they aren't obligated to sell these animal fighting materials, so why one but not the other?
 
Hi all,

I just spent some time looking up articles about amazon on the hsus website. In one published in June, there is a statement that amazon has told courts is has stopped selling the two dogfighting DVD's (although they still maintain that they have the legal right to sell them).

They are still selling the cockfighting magazines, however.

http://www.hsus.org/acf/news/pressrel/amazon_lawsuit_expanded.html

I also learned that amazon has voluntarily removed many materials before from their websites: Nazi propaganda, some religious materials, etc. Their resistance on this issue, according to the reports I read has "confounded... legal experts."

There is lots of info. I only read a few articles. I need to read more before making up my own mind about doing business with them in the future, or what I will write to them if I decide not to, but those are a few things I gleaned in the few minutes I had this morning.
 
I think Mocha and Carolyn have touched on THE most important point here. Amazon has willingly removed materials for sale from their site before. Why? Because they were found to be a little more than objectionable. Just because they feel they have the RIGHT to sell animal fighting materials doesn't mean they SHOULD. Sometimes you have to decide what *the* right thing to do is and not hide behind the semantics of your 'rights.' I'm sorry but that's how I feel.

As their customer I feel compelled to tell them that I have the right not to shop at a retailer who is tacitly approving of animal fighting. I'm not censoring them, I am encouraging them to think about the economic impact of their arbitrary decision to carry animal fighting magazines. And, yes, it is arbitrary seeing as they have removed other items and choose not to carry still others. My suggestion to them is to move animal fighting materials to the other side of their 'line.'
 

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