SirenSongWoman
Cathlete
Did anyone see this? I finally visited his website (www.PickensPlan.com) and I'm very impressed. What do you all think?
T. Boone Pickens on leno
- Thread starter SirenSongWoman
- Start date
hiitdogs
Cathlete
Our dependency on foreign oil is going to kill us financially, not to mention the impact on the environment, if we continue like this we will get killed, literally.
Although there are still some clowns who are proclaiming that either global warming doesn't exist or if it exists it is NOT manmade.
The big energy companies have too many vested interests in sticking with conventional energy sources. They will never be the driving force behind renewables and many of our politicians are in the pocket of those companies and are promoting the energy company's interests, not ours.
If you look at Germany, it's governments subsidies and investment in green / renewable energy is paying off. 200,000 new jobs in the renewable energy sector - and Germany is a small country.
The shift to natural gas in cars sounds like a great idea, we have the gas in the US, a fast transition from would be possible. Drilling oil wouldn't have any impact until 7 to 10 years from now and then only little impact.
I like his plan, it seems like a great start!
Although there are still some clowns who are proclaiming that either global warming doesn't exist or if it exists it is NOT manmade.
The big energy companies have too many vested interests in sticking with conventional energy sources. They will never be the driving force behind renewables and many of our politicians are in the pocket of those companies and are promoting the energy company's interests, not ours.
If you look at Germany, it's governments subsidies and investment in green / renewable energy is paying off. 200,000 new jobs in the renewable energy sector - and Germany is a small country.
The shift to natural gas in cars sounds like a great idea, we have the gas in the US, a fast transition from would be possible. Drilling oil wouldn't have any impact until 7 to 10 years from now and then only little impact.
I like his plan, it seems like a great start!
Carola
>>there are still some clowns who are proclaiming that either global warming doesn't exist or if it exists it is NOT manmade. <<
I would love to see the alternate energy solutions come to fruition, I would also like to see more conservation efforts as well. I recycle and I turn off unused lights.
I guess I fall into your definitions of "clowns" because I tell people that global warming is a natural process. Geologically speaking, we are in our fourth or fifth interglacial period right now. That means the planet has iced over and thawed a few times before. The previous times without man here to cause it. Its as natural as the tide.
If anyone wants to have a debate about whether or not man is accelerating the process, I'm up for it as we may very well be. But are we causing it, no. Can we stop it, no. If we are speeding it up, we should curb our impact.
Dave
>>there are still some clowns who are proclaiming that either global warming doesn't exist or if it exists it is NOT manmade. <<
I would love to see the alternate energy solutions come to fruition, I would also like to see more conservation efforts as well. I recycle and I turn off unused lights.
I guess I fall into your definitions of "clowns" because I tell people that global warming is a natural process. Geologically speaking, we are in our fourth or fifth interglacial period right now. That means the planet has iced over and thawed a few times before. The previous times without man here to cause it. Its as natural as the tide.
If anyone wants to have a debate about whether or not man is accelerating the process, I'm up for it as we may very well be. But are we causing it, no. Can we stop it, no. If we are speeding it up, we should curb our impact.
Dave
If you read again what I wrote you will find that I didn't say one way or the other. I stated global warming is indeed a natural process. Our activities may be speeding it up.
I would also say that CO emissions from autos and factories are just as lethal to the environment as the CO emissions from the various volcanoes that are spewing at any given moment.
I am a firm believer in man being the steward of the planet, that being said it should be clear that I consider myself to be somewhat environmental. I am not however a pop scientist who latches on to a cause and browbeats people the selected details to prove that cause while ignoring other details that diminish the cause.
Dave
I would also say that CO emissions from autos and factories are just as lethal to the environment as the CO emissions from the various volcanoes that are spewing at any given moment.
I am a firm believer in man being the steward of the planet, that being said it should be clear that I consider myself to be somewhat environmental. I am not however a pop scientist who latches on to a cause and browbeats people the selected details to prove that cause while ignoring other details that diminish the cause.
Dave
hiitdogs
Cathlete
What is that supposed to mean? A pop scientist who latches on to a cause???
Burning fossil fuels raises the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and I guess it is undisputed that CO2 is a major contributor to the greenhouse effect. Prior to the industrial revolution levels of CO2 were about 280 parts per million by volume (ppmv), and current levels are greater than 380 ppmv and increasing at faster speeds. Scientist say that over the last 650,000 years the levels have grown with the largest jump in the last 50 years.
Human activity since the industrial revolution has increased the concentration of various other greenhouse gases like methane, tropospheric ozone and CFCs.
By the way, the US Geological Survey estimates that human activities generate more than 130 times the amount of carbon dioxide than what is emitted by volcanic activity.
There will never be "conclusive" proof for some nay-sayers. We can only put the facts together and say by preponderance of the evidence it is more likely than not that human activity contributes overwhelmingly to increased greenhouse gases and therefore, are to a great part responsible for climate change and global warming.
Even if global warming is, as some call it, the biggest hoax ever, what would be the worst that can happen if we take action? We decrease polluting the environment that we leave our children and grandchildren, we may create some jobs and decrease our dependency on foreign oil. I don't see the drawback.
Stephanie0523
Cathlete
Whether it's going to happen anyway or not, I definitely think that humans are speeding up the process. I look at it like this, we all are going to die eventually, but we speed up the process if we fill our body with toxins and don't take care of ourselves. If we fill our earth with toxins and don't take care of it, it will suffer more quickly, as well. (I know it's an elementary way of thinking, but hey, I'm a stay-at-home-mom who never talks to adults. So this is how I explain it to my 6 and 3 year olds when they ask why we recycle and carry our own bags to the store, etc.)
I think it's criminal for those out there who don't believe we are causing the problem to keep shouting that it doesn't exist. It's very irresponsible. It doesn't matter WHAT causes Global Warming. If we have a way to slow down the process or even reverse the damage, then we are obliged to do so.
This is a great video on YouTube. It's 10 minutes long, and the guy is kinda geeky, but he makes a wonderful argument.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zORv8wwiadQ&feature=related
I think it's criminal for those out there who don't believe we are causing the problem to keep shouting that it doesn't exist. It's very irresponsible. It doesn't matter WHAT causes Global Warming. If we have a way to slow down the process or even reverse the damage, then we are obliged to do so.
This is a great video on YouTube. It's 10 minutes long, and the guy is kinda geeky, but he makes a wonderful argument.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zORv8wwiadQ&feature=related
famousohara
Cathlete
Look at what he's doing in Texas. He just got the Texas utilities comission to approve spending $4 - $5 billion of taxpayers money on new transmission lines to connect a wind farm in which he and partners plan to invest $200 million to the grid. Not a bad deal - if you're T Boone Pickens.
Carola,
You have dumped a lot of facts that some would think nails down your case.
My original post did not deny global warming I only said it was natural. I also suggested debate in the area of whether we are accelerating it or not.
As with a lot of global warming proponents, if someone doesn't agree with you 100% then they must be disagreeing with you 100%?
I contend that since it is a cyclical pattern of nature that man is impotent in stopping it. If we are accelerating it then we should minimize those activities. Mother Nature has cooled the planet a few times....
In the 1970's scientists told us the pollution was going to cause atmospheric filtering of the sunlight and the planet was going to cool. The evidence was the volcanic eruption of Tambora in April 1816, it leaked 400 million tons of gas and over 100 cubic kilometers of rock/ash.
The year was referred to as the year without summer and agricultural communities were devastated with snow as late as June, the cloud cover simply reflected the sunlight away. The volcano is also contributed with causing a Typhus outbreak due to the weather anomaly.
You have dumped a lot of facts that some would think nails down your case.
My original post did not deny global warming I only said it was natural. I also suggested debate in the area of whether we are accelerating it or not.
As with a lot of global warming proponents, if someone doesn't agree with you 100% then they must be disagreeing with you 100%?
I contend that since it is a cyclical pattern of nature that man is impotent in stopping it. If we are accelerating it then we should minimize those activities. Mother Nature has cooled the planet a few times....
In the 1970's scientists told us the pollution was going to cause atmospheric filtering of the sunlight and the planet was going to cool. The evidence was the volcanic eruption of Tambora in April 1816, it leaked 400 million tons of gas and over 100 cubic kilometers of rock/ash.
The year was referred to as the year without summer and agricultural communities were devastated with snow as late as June, the cloud cover simply reflected the sunlight away. The volcano is also contributed with causing a Typhus outbreak due to the weather anomaly.
hiitdogs
Cathlete
I never said that if people don't agree with me 100 % they must be disagreeing with me 100%. That's your assumption.
I think we all can agree that burning fossil fuels causes emission of CO2. The most significant increase in CO2 has been in the last 50 to 100 years. In 649,900 years it raises by 100 (180 ppvm to 280 ppvm) and only in 100 years it raises another 100. I would say, there is a clue that we are causing this
What I find curious with people who insist that global warming is "natural" they don't even want to consider the possibility that it could be us and keep saying there is not enough evidence. What's enough evidence for you guys?
And I am asking my question again even if global warming is, as some call it, the biggest hoax ever, what would be the worst that can happen if we take action and it turns out we overreacted? We decrease polluting the environment that we leave our children and grandchildren, we may create some jobs and decrease our dependency on foreign oil. What would be the drawback?
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hiitdogs
Cathlete
Should we rather have $ 5 billion of taxpayer's money dumped into oil companies in subsidies so they can make more profits, charge us more money for gas, pay their CEOs several million every year in bonuses and keep polluting our planet?
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Carola,
It is natural, 4 or 5 coverings of the planet in ice and then retreating. How much evidence do you need? We weren't even there for those!
Also I haven't said it was a hoax, I believe in it and that is natural. As I said before if I don't agree with everything you say then I must disagree with everything you say?
Black and white thinking:
The following statement is false.
The previous statement is true.
Dave
It is natural, 4 or 5 coverings of the planet in ice and then retreating. How much evidence do you need? We weren't even there for those!
Also I haven't said it was a hoax, I believe in it and that is natural. As I said before if I don't agree with everything you say then I must disagree with everything you say?
Black and white thinking:
The following statement is false.
The previous statement is true.
Dave
hottiescientist
Cathlete
I'm still on the fence about this. I think us shifting from foreign oil dependence is a good thing. But I definitely think that T. Boone Pickens is asking taxpayers to support his business venture. I mean, in all reality, nobody would really have a problem if he did this all privately. I think I feel better with Al Gore's mentality -- taking the money and time to build an infrastructure to make more things run on electricity instead of focusing on the bridge (natural gas everything). I would hardly want a bridge that went "nowhere" for the environment because we got comfortable with natural gas and we had no more money to spend on making everything electric. I just think about how many cars people go through...first they get rid of gas, then it'll be cng, and then it'll be electric. I would LOVE to have an electric car, and I think I'll be able to afford those changes, but I'm not sure if everyone can.
But anything that makes this country financially and environmentally stronger, I'm for.
But anything that makes this country financially and environmentally stronger, I'm for.
hiitdogs
Cathlete
You know, Dave, I have asked you twice now what would be the harm to assume it is man-made and stop polluting the environment. You just keep repeating that you believe in global warming and that it is natural. Other than you believing in it, and the world freezing over and the ice melting off 4 or 5 times before, is there anything else?
Don't you think that the continued emission of Co2 through the burning of fossil fuels for 6 billion people is contributing to the greenhouse effect.
I don't know how much evidence you need. There is enough evidence that Co2 levels and other greenhouse gases have exponentially risen to levels which have not been seen before and it coincides with the beginning of the industrial revolution and has risen even more during the past 50 years. By preponderance of the evidence I would say it is more likely than not that it IS man-made to a large degree. Can there be other contributing factors? Sure! But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't minimize our impact or that we should argue or point fingers over who or what is the biggest offender instead of taking action.
If you see a woman laying on the floor with a hole in her head with a gun next to her with the husbands fingerprints on it, we would assume that that woman was murdered by her husband, we don't need to actually see the husband shooting the wife, do we?
Frankly, I don't know what you agree or disagree with because all you do is assuming what I think, putting words in my mouth and lecturing me on black and white thinking.
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hiitdogs
Cathlete
I am always happy to be patronized by someone who barely ever posts other than making snide comments and who calls people she disagrees with opportunistic pigs.
baylian
Cathlete
WTH? Sorry, don't remember making any comment like that!!
So typical - your all for free speech until that person doesn't tow your line of thinking - then the bloodletting starts . . .sad.
Going to have a beer and watch high school football . . much more entertaining
I will keep you and all of the Catheites in my bed time prayers for a great workout and day tomorrow.
So typical - your all for free speech until that person doesn't tow your line of thinking - then the bloodletting starts . . .sad.
Going to have a beer and watch high school football . . much more entertaining
I will keep you and all of the Catheites in my bed time prayers for a great workout and day tomorrow.
neverendingcircle
Member
I think Al Gore jumped on the global warming bandwagon because it's making him a lot of money. Have you seen the mansion? Or his yacht? Oh yea, then there is the jet he flies around in, preaching to everyone else about global warming. I guess I will curtail my "carbon footprint" when Algore and another big proponent Arnold Schwartznegger curtail theirs. Arnold commutes every morning from Brentwood, California to Sacramento in a Gulf Stream. Give me a break, gentlemen. There always seems to be one set of rules for the annointed ones, and another set for everyone else.
baylian
Cathlete
Well said Neverend . .
let's throw John Kerry on that list also.
For what it is worth - I am a retired flight attendant and I had John Kerry on a flight from D.C. to Boston back in the late 90's. He did sit in coach (flight was light in pax) however that guy did not look me - a middle income worker - ONCE in the eye or even my face when I asked him for his order. It was "sprite" and that was it! Not a thank you, screw you, sorry to be you . . nada!
He must have mixed me up with one of the servants at from Theresa's fast empire. .
Needless to say - if the plane had started to go down - he would have been the last on my list to save. Don't pi$$ your flight attendant off . . !
let's throw John Kerry on that list also.
For what it is worth - I am a retired flight attendant and I had John Kerry on a flight from D.C. to Boston back in the late 90's. He did sit in coach (flight was light in pax) however that guy did not look me - a middle income worker - ONCE in the eye or even my face when I asked him for his order. It was "sprite" and that was it! Not a thank you, screw you, sorry to be you . . nada!
He must have mixed me up with one of the servants at from Theresa's fast empire. .
Needless to say - if the plane had started to go down - he would have been the last on my list to save. Don't pi$$ your flight attendant off . . !
hottiescientist
Cathlete
Yeah, it certainly is hard sometimes to take politicians seriously when they live at such a different level than us. I actually am not the biggest fan of Al Gore's overall policies (I'm more liberal than he is), but when it comes to his record on global warming, I do respect him not because he "jumped on the bandwagon," but because he was pushing it in 1979 (as congressional records can show) when it wasn't widely known outside of the scientific community. But you're certainly right that its hard to take politicians seriously whether they've married a woman heiress to the profits of ketchup or to a woman heiress to the profits of beer.