"Supersize Me"

RE:

Hi, Carol. That's my point as well. Fifty years ago it was more difficult to overindulge due to less availability of such things as ultra refined carbs. You could not get the stuff we get these days. Resturants didn't serve enormous portions. If you wanted to run the dishwasher, you had to find granny and get her to wash them. Yes, we are less active and yes the food supply has changed but that's only one aspect and to truly defeat the obesity problem it has to be looked at as a whole. I didn't say it applies to everyone and obesity results in different people for different reasons. Poor choices are but a small part of it because a great many people eat poorly and don't get fat. Yes, you have to overconsume but why do the people who do it do it? Because they are studpid and lazy and lack self-control? No, doubt some of them may be just that but I don't think many are and they need help to stop and they deserve compassion and support. I am a good example of the opposite physiology. Unless pregnant, I don't get much past 135 and I don't think obesity is a problem I need worry about. For those who do and want to change it, diet and exercise are key but so is getting to the underlying reason they overeat in the first place. Didn't you lose 60 pounds? You are one of the smartest, most ambitious and focused women I have encountered. I know you are capable of self-control and have remade yourself into a fit and fabulous woman just as I have changed my life through the exclusion of alcohol. I took up running and a careful diet and I feel quite certain that I have altered my physiology in doing so. That does not mean I can drink alchohol. Isn't that similar to what you did? I have a sister who consumes so much sugar in soda and sweets, it's scary. She's very thin. I have a friend who struggles with sweets and avoids them because she knows that they trigger binge eating and weight gain. Based on that and some of the studies I have read, I think my conclusions are quite sound.
Bobbi http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif "Chick's rule!"

Tell me, what is it you plan to do
with your one wild and precious life?

- Mary Oliver
 
RE:

My take on this is that I am hesitant to call obesity, and alot of other things, diseases. This society is over-medicated as it is. I actually think ONE PROBLEM is that people have too much time on their hands, despite what the prevailing belief is nowadays. Things are easier these days. If you shuffle one piece of paper from one side of a desk to another, that's called "work". Laziness is everywhere and technology is making things even easier to do. There are no expectations. Everyone just muddles through --case in point, the school systems these days. What I am getting at is when there is extra time people tend to start getting into other stuff or start not feeling worthwhile about themselves...so they start shovelling food, drugs, drink,,,anything that makes them feel better, into their mouths. The brain responds with the "feel good" chemical release.
This is my opinion, of course, excluding people with real issues like thyroid, etc. Those are the vast minority of overweight people in my view. If you are on a structured schedule and are held accountable for alot of what you do in the course of a day, I really don't see how there is time, or opportunity, to stuff 5500 calories of crap down your throat. Now, like I said, I feel that's definitely ONE issue in this.
But, if we are going to call EVERYTHING a disease and try to solve it by popping pills, I guess we better let everyone out of jail. Those people obviously have problems. So let's over-analyze what it is about them that's abnormal, find a magic pill to fix it, and move on.
We are seriously heading down the wrong road in this world. I picture a world where everyone is taking some pill for something or other, and no one is accountable for anything. Does ANYONE see how ridiculous that would be?
Please don't flame me ladies, LOL! It's my opinion and I certainly welcome yours.....
T. :)
 
RE:

Oh dear lord yes Trevor! I'm a high school math teacher and we have sooo many mainstreamed students in our classrooms who have sooo many exceptions to my classroom rules its unbelievable. I didn't have this even five years ago. Some mainstreamed students DO NOT have to even copy notes because they aren't CAPABLE - BS!! They get a copy of another students notes from the LD teacher and then SOMETIMES get around to getting those copied. They don't have to keep a record of their grades (as do all my other students), read their own tests, and about half of them, I can't even call on them to participate in class because it causes them anxiety and its in their IEP that it would just be too traumatic for them x(

I tell you folks, we are raising a bunch of enabled teenagers who are not responsible for ANYTHING! Definitely on the other side of the coin I have some wonderful students who are so dedicated...you know the ones who will work hard, get good jobs and pay tons of taxes to support the enabled ones. It's just so sad.

Sami

I'll get off my soap box now }(
 
RE:

Trevor, I agree. Obesity, except in maybe about 2% of the population, is not a disease. And labeling it that takes away personal accountability (there's nothing I can do, it's a disease). It also trivializes REAL diseases.

Too many people, even if they don't see it as a disease, want to find some pill or potion or quick fix for the problem. We used to have a secretary who told me once she would do " anything" to lose weight. But I soon foud out her " anything" didn't include regular physical activity or a healthy diet (she went from diet shakes to double cheeseburgers in the space of two days), but some pill (she was about to take phen-fen just before they took it off the market) or diet shake, or other " quick fix" that didn't get to the root of the problem.

I'm sure there are many factors involved in our current obesity epidemic (it can be an " epidemiinc," can't it, without being a disease?): overconsumption of processed foods and foods in general, general lack of physical activity on a daily basis, laziness (how many people circle around in parking lots looking for the closest spot, even though it's a beautiful day out, and the short walk to the store could be pleasant, then don't even take the few steps they need to put the shopping cart in a cart corral when they are done with it).

Heredity does play a factor, but I like the saying " heredity may load the gun, but lifestyle pulls the trigger." There was a fascinating program on PBS several months ago with Alan Alda hosting. They were investigating diet and obesity and longevity. He visited a tribe of Native Americans who now have horrible problems with obesity because of the COMBINATION of a gene that makes them more apt to gain weight, AND their modern diet. In the past, when they ate their traditional diet, most of them were slim and fit. But today, when many of them eat the same processed foods that most Americans do, they have a huge (no pun intended) % of members who are overweight and obese.

I remember the 60's and 70's, and there were by no means as man overweight people as there are today. Restaurant portions were also much smaller, and processed foods used less often.
 
RE:

Bobbi,

Thank you so much for understanding, even though you are thin, that there is more to obesity than laziness and lack of self-control.

I've lost 130 pounds, and I'm going on five years maintenance now, but this is not the first time I've lost upwards of 100 pounds, and it's not the second, and it's not the third.

You know, I defy anyone (in the nicest way possible :) )to tell me, after having lost this amount of weight this many times, in addition to quitting a three-pack-a-day, seventeen-year cigarette habit, and starting a program of regular exercise, that I'm lazy or lack self-control. I'm the QUEEN of self-control. I have more self-control than anyone I know.

I have to fight every second of every day to stay in control with all the factors working against me. I've lost that fight several times, obviously, but I never give up.

Thank you so much for understanding this and acknowledging it, even though you don't have this problem yourself. It feels so good to be "understood."

Shari

P.S. Just to clarify, I do have thyroid and other medical problems that make all this much more difficult to deal with, although I am making progress veeeerrrrryyyyy slowly now, and I most definitely do NOT believe in a quick fix pill to solve the problem of obesity. I just want people to understand that there can be, as Bobbi mentions, much more involved in obesity than simple lack of self-control and laziness. The problem is complex and worthy of the research now being conducted.
 
RE:

Hi Shari,

ANYONE who can conquer a 3pack a day addiction has my deepest respect & admiration. Conquering 2 packs a day was the hardest thing I ever did, FAR harder than The Gauntlet! ;)

Not to mention your hard, hard work & dedication to conquering your body's problems. That takes guts. I truly admire you.

Ruth:)
 
RE:

Ok, kids who are mainstreamed aren't like the rest of the kids you teach. They're LD--being un-PC, retarded. My oldest son is retarded. What takes other kids 20 minutes takes him an hour, which is why he does his work in the LD classroom, which is why teachers don't ask him to read in class. It takes too long, and they don't have the time to wait on him. He is not being given anything. He struggles every day with things everybody takes for granted. We spend three hours on his homework plus drills nearly every night. He's not being given anything. I tell you, if regular students in my son's school studied as hard as he does, they'd all be geniuses.

No, my son won't be a brain surgeon. But he needs exposure to regular ed so he continues to be challenged. He's a hard worker. How can you say with certainty that these kids are being enabled? Are you trained to diagnose this? How do you know that the IEP is BS? My son has had more medical doctors/pschologists/counselors test him in his life than I've had since I've been alive. There is nothing I can do about his brain function. All I can do is help him become as educated as he can. Mainstreaming is a way to help LD kids learn to live and work in a regular world. IEPs change from year to year as exposure grows. My son's changes every year as he adapts and gains new skills.

I have teachers throughout my family. Both my sisters and my mom; two of my in-laws are college professors. Another inlaw teaches middle school and another high school. I well know many complaints about lazy kids. But to label LD to be lazy and not responsible is just wrong. Yes, there are some. But there are plenty of "regular" kids who are lazy and unresponsible, as well. Don't poison your mind against kids who are slower or less intelligent than others. They need an education, too.
 
RE:

Trevor,

I truly like & admire you...you know that right? But I have to say I think you're over-simplifying a very complex subject, not to mention something you have never experienced.

Many of your points are valid but I don't think they apply to everyone.

But I love ya!:) :) :)

Ruth
 
RE:

Sami, I have to agree with typhoonvash here - I have two autistic children, one of whom is mainstreamed this year, and the tone of your post surprised and saddened me.
 
RE:

Oops! Meant to say...I agree with you that obesity is not a disease per se...we created the problem ourselves. My label was ill-chosen...perhaps syndrome would be a better name.
 
RE:

Ruth, you don't have to tapdance around me dear. :) I love ya and appreciate your opinion.
T. :)
 
RE:

Trevor, your post is a sterling example of unflaming disagreement and I appreciate that! :). I agree with you to a point and I don't belive that obesity is a disease in the classic medical sense. Neither is alcoholism for tht matter. I guess my point is that to treat the problem of obesity it takes more than education or medicine. Medicine can be looked at in ways, research to understand the genetic aspects which I think are very real and treatment of conditions brought on by obesity. They are quite different. I consider the matter to be multi-facted starting with the industrilizaton of the country. Even the way we raise our meat has a negative impact on the enviroment and hunger here and abroad. Hence, it's a a matter with sociological overtones. It's affected by advertising and socio-economic status. The closer to poverty you are, the easier it is to fall prey to cheap, un-nutritious food. Heaven knows, I feel blessed to be able to afford to eat the way I do and it's ridiculously expensive. Most important is the need to do what's necessary to fix it and that's where these discussions are nice.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.

- Margaret Mead

I try to never let myself be harsh or judgemental especially when I can't relate. I think being obese must be very difficult. And after all, I have dealt with eating disorders, alcoholism and depression and here I am strong, heathy and grounded largely thanks to the love and support of those who looked beyond my rather dramatc idisyncrasies! I have watched several small, obese children walk into my son's school in the morning. It seems to me they are always alone, sad and they seem in need of help! We skinny guys have to help too! So, in addition to obesity, I am also working on world hunger! LOL!
Bobbi http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif "Chick's rule!"

Tell me, what is it you plan to do
with your one wild and precious life?

- Mary Oliver
 
RE:

Shari, you are amazing! I thought getting off the nicotine was one of the toughest things ever. Shari, I should thank you and I do. You should be so proud of yourself for showing the way. You have definitely been part of my educational process as have many Catheites and the Discovery Channel, LOL! I am always taken aback when people think this is about self-control, too little exercise and too much food. It is and it isn't. It's not just over-eaters who need re-education. We all do. You are very brave to speak out and know I am with you through all your struggles just asI know you and many others are there for me in mine. And I am blessed and I know it which is why I love to spout off. Aside from the big mouth thing! :) I am getting involved in getting our school cafeteria food improved and I think kids need more guidance of the sort we say in Supersize me with the one program which got the kids eating such lovely foods! Our school system is very good and I think something similar could play here or at the very least a more hands on approach from some of we parents who advocate food as preventative medicine as well as yummy goodness! Eat to live, you know!
Bobbi http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif "Chick's rule!"

Tell me, what is it you plan to do
with your one wild and precious life?

- Mary Oliver
 
RE:

Kathyrn, I respect you for your obvious intelligence but if you look at Webster's definition of disease "To derange the vital functions of; to afflict with disease or sickness; to disorder; -- used almost exclusively in the participle diseased", It's really quite an apt description. I don't see how looking at it as a disease is going to make someone less accountable when the symptoms make life unbearable. Still, my point was it is so much more than lack of exercise and over-eating and it needs to be addressed as more and even we thin people need to own it since it affects everyone. I like to think I can make a difference. When I meet overweight women, I look for an opportunity to tell them about the beauty of my lifestyle and I used to do a fitness talk for young mothers at MOP's many of whom were struggleing with "baby" fat and weight issues. They want help and I like being in a position to give it. So many overweight people are treated with contempt and that's a shame.
Bobbi http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif "Chick's rule!"

Tell me, what is it you plan to do
with your one wild and precious life?

- Mary Oliver
 
RE:

You see Trevor, that's why I love ya so much! You're a dear.

(You're cute too, but I'm not allowed to mention that, right? Not PC? LOL)

Ruth;-)

p.s. Bobbi...love your postings...thoughtful, intelligent & informative.
 
RE:

typhoonvash & ally

No, mainstreaming has gone absolutely crazy the past few years - the regular ed. classroom isn't the place for students who can't abide by the rules set forth by the teacher. Will it be okay someday for them to drive differently and not obey traffic signs because hey nobody was holding my hand?

I do know what I'm talking about - my daughter tests out on 2nd and 3rd grade levels and she should be in 7th grade - she's 12 and in the 6th grade. She had severe seizures for years starting at 2, and later we found out not all of her brain was formed correctly (the ridges in the front lobe of her brain about the size of 2 half dollars are smooth and not wavy).

My husband and I tag team EVERY school night spending up to 5 hours helping her with her homework. She studies hard and when she is in the regular classroom for part of the day, I and DH expect her to be treated as the others meaning no special treatment. This is her reward for working so hard - getting to spend part of the day in the regular classroom. If she needs special help it takes place at home or in the LD classroom, not with the regular ed teacher who has no training in that field.

I didn't mean to offend - but TOO many LD students are spoonfed - obviously there are many exceptions as have been noted here and I believe my daughter is also one of them as are both of yours.

AnyHoot - Any Hoot...Sam
 
RE:

Thanks Bobbi! Me too...as long as everyone remembers their manners, it's a lot of fun & I always learn something.:)
 
Hey Ruth!

I'm not PC so I will definitely take any and all compliments I can! LOL!!
T. :)
 
RE: Hey Ruth!

Well, as long as we're dishing out compliments and not worrying about being PC ... ;-) HA! Just kidding!! You know I wouldn't embarrass you on this forum, right Trev??? :D

Okay. I made it to the middle of nowhere Illinois - LOL!! No offense to those of you who live in this particular "I" state, but it's flatter than my laptop here!! LOL!! WHEW! I have never seen so many miles of cornfields at one time! The rivers are gorgeous!! The view is amazing. We don't exactly have hills in Ohio, but there are bumps in the landscape, and I'm used to seeing the tops of trees, and that's about it!! LOL!!

A few thoughts to add to this thread, but forgive me if I don't come back for a few days to post. This dial-up thing from the hotel room is not exactly fast!!

Bobbi, thank you for what you said about me. I admire and respect your views, and I can feel your passion about this issue coming through in your posts. The thing is, my losing 60 pounds is not the same in my mind as conquering a disease. My letting myself gain that kind of weight was not the result of a disease process, or anything other than simply not caring what I shoved in my mouth. I'm not addicted to sugar or carbs, like an acoholic is addicted to alcohol. I can eat sugar or carbs - and do - and then I stop. It's a conscious choice. My other thoughts are that no one is born obese. No one is born having to lose 50, 100, or more pounds. It happens over time, because of diet, lifestyle, and choices each and every day. It's a gradual growth, if you will. Same with cigarettes. No is born addicted to nicotine. There is a point at which you start to smoke, and then you make the conscious choice to keep doing it. Yes, you do become addicted. It's a drug, and it's addictive. BUT, you yourself have to start the process at some point. Same with addiction to any drug. You make the first choice to take the first puff, pill, drink, whatever. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, and I realize that. There is no absolute here.

Here's where the argument about obesity becomes controversial, IMHO. Is sugar or processed carbs as "addictive" as nicotine, or alcohol, or cocaine? Time will tell. I'm waiting on that one, because right now there is only sketchy information. If it's there, someone will eventually find it. If it is truly as addictive, then once you start, will you become "hooked", IF you possess the gene to do so, as in alcoholism? Or not? No one knows yet. Not every person with alcoholism in their family becomes hooked on it. Why do some do and some don't? We don't know that. If there is an "obesity" gene, and your family has obesity in it, will you become addicted to sugar or processed carbs? We don't know. Too much speculation here, and not enough concrete answers.

I'm not trying to oversimplify the issue. But there is simply not enough "evidence" out there to convince me. As I said, time will tell. But for now, it appears we are light years apart on this. Hey, it's cool!

I have to go now, but I'll try to get on here later in the week. Take care, everyone!!

Carol
:)
 
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