Speaking of marriage....

I'm with ya, Jes.

DH and I lived together for almost three years before we got married. Two of those years we were engaged. I think living with someone before marriage is very, very wise. My daughter lived with her husband about a year before they got married, also. Both SIL's Mom and I were in approval. We both had bad first marriages and thought it was a good idea. They've been married now for 8 years and are doing fine!
 
I've never been married, never wanted to get married and I will never marrry.

I've had my share of marriage proposals, even the very romantic ones, like on top of the Eiffel tower, but I've always said no. I've said no to threats and ultimatums. I just don't understand why people want to and I always asked the guy why he wanted to get married. They always say stuff like "cause I love you". That's no reason for me to get married. And I've often been told "for commitment". But I'm committed or I wouldn't be in that relationship.

It's me, I know. I do like to be in a relations ship and (I'm a single mum now) I do want to be in one again. But the whole marriage thing is just something I don't understand. I can't relate to it.

Dutchie
 
TOP TEN REASONS WHY MARRIAGE IS GOOD FOR YOU:

10. IT'S SAFER. Marriage lowers the risk that both men and women will become victims of violence, including domestic violence. A 1994 Justice Department report, based on the National Crime Victimization Survey, found that single and divorced women were four to five times more likely to be victims of violence in any given year than wives; bachelors were four times more likely to be violent-crime victims than husbands. Two-thirds of acts of violence against women committed by intimate partners were not committed by husbands but by boyfriends (whether live-in or not) or former husbands or boyfriends. As one scholar sums up the relevant research: "Regardless of methodology, the studies yielded similar results: cohabitors engage in more violence than spouses." Linda Waite conducted an analysis of the National Survey of Families and Households for our new book. She found that, even after controlling for education, race, age, and gender, people who live together are still three times more likely to say their arguments got physical (such as kicking, hitting, or shoving) in the past year than married couples.

9. IT CAN SAVE YOUR LIFE. Married people live longer and healthier lives. The power of marriage is particularly evident in late middle age. When Linda Waite and a colleague, for example, analyzed mortality differentials in a very large, nationally representative sample, they found an astonishingly large "marriage gap" in longevity: nine out of ten married guys who are alive at 48 will make it to age 65, compared with just six in ten comparable single guys (controlling for race, education, and income). For women, the protective benefits of marriage are also powerful, though not quite as large. Nine out of ten wives alive at age 48 will live to be senior citizens, compared with just eight out of ten divorced and single women.

In fact, according to statisticians Bernard Cohen and I-Sing Lee, who compiled a catalog of relative mortality risks, "being unmarried is one of the greatest risks that people voluntarily subject themselves to." Having heart disease, for example, reduces a man's life expectancy by just under six years, while being unmarried chops almost ten years off a man's life. This is not just a selection effect: even controlling for initial health status, sick people who are married live longer than their unmarried counterparts. Having a spouse, for example, lowers a cancer patient's risk of dying from the disease as much as being in an age category ten years younger. A recent study of outcomes for surgical patients found that just being married lowered a patient's risk of dying in the hospital. For perhaps more obvious reasons, the risk a hospital patient will be discharged to a nursing home was two and a half times greater if the patient was unmarried. Scientists who have studied immune functioning in the laboratory find that happily married couples have better-functioning immune systems. Divorced people, even years after the divorce, show much lower levels of immune function.

8. IT CAN SAVE YOUR KID'S LIFE. Children lead healthier, longer lives if parents get and stay married. Adults who fret about second-hand smoke and drunk driving would do well to focus at least some of their attention on this point. In one long-term study that followed a sample of highly advantaged children (middle-class whites with IQs of at least 135) up through their seventies, a parent's divorce knocked four years off the adult child's life expectancy. Forty-year-olds from divorced homes were three times more likely to die from all causes than 40-year-olds whose parents stayed married.

7. YOU WILL EARN MORE MONEY. Men today tend to think of marriage as a consumption item — a financial burden. But a broad and deep body of scientific literature suggests that for men especially, marriage is a productive institution — as important as education in boosting a man's earnings. In fact, getting a wife may increase an American male's salary by about as much as a college education. Married men make, by some estimates, as much as 40 percent more money than comparable single guys, even after controlling for education and job history. The longer a man stays married, the higher the marriage premium he receives. Wives' earnings also benefit from marriage, but they decline when motherhood enters the picture. Childless white wives get a marriage wage premium of 4 percent, and black wives earn 10 percent more than comparable single women.

6. DID I MENTION YOU'LL GET MUCH RICHER? Married people not only make more money, they manage money better and build more wealth together than either would alone. At identical income levels, for example, married people are less likely to report "economic hardship" or trouble paying basic bills. The longer you stay married, the more assets you build; by contrast, length of cohabitation has no relationship to wealth accumulation. On the verge of retirement, the average married couple has accumulated assets worth about $410,000, compared with $167,000 for the never-married and $154,000 for the divorced. Couples who stayed married in one study saw their assets increase twice as fast as those who had remained divorced over a five-year period.

5. YOU'LL TAME HIS CHEATIN' HEART (HERS, TOO). Marriage increases sexual fidelity. Cohabiting men are four times more likely to cheat than husbands, and cohabiting women are eight times more likely to cheat than wives. Marriage is also the only realistic promise of permanence in a romantic relationship. Just one out of ten cohabiting couples are still cohabiting after five years. By contrast, 80 percent of couples marrying for the first time are still married five years later, and close to 60 percent (if current divorce rates continue) will marry for life. One British study found that biological parents who marry are three times more likely still to be together two years later than biological two-parent families who cohabit, even after controlling for maternal age, education, economic hardship, previous relationship failure, depression, and relationship quality. Marriage may be riskier than it once was, but when it comes to making love last, there is still no better bet.

4. YOU WON'T GO BONKERS. Marriage is good for your mental health. Married men and women are less depressed, less anxious, and less psychologically distressed than single, divorced, or widowed Americans. By contrast, getting divorced lowers both men's and women's mental health, increasing depression and hostility, and lowering one's self-esteem and sense of personal mastery and purpose in life.

And this is not just a statistical illusion: careful researchers who have tracked individuals as they move toward marriage find that it is not just that happy, healthy people marry; instead, getting married gives individuals a powerful mental health boost. Nadine Marks and James Lambert looked at changes in the psychological health of a large sample of Americans in the late eighties and early nineties. They measured psychological well-being at the outset and then watched what happened to individuals over the next years as they married, remained single, or divorced. When people married, their mental health improved — consistently and substantially. When people divorced, they suffered substantial deterioration in mental and emotional well-being, including increases in depression and declines in reported happiness. Those who divorced over this period also reported a lower sense of personal mastery, less positive relations with others, less sense of purpose in life, and lower levels of self-acceptance than their married peers did.

Married men are only half as likely as bachelors and one-third as likely as divorced guys to take their own lives. Wives are also much less likely to commit suicide than single, divorced, or widowed women. Married people are much less likely to have problems with alcohol abuse or illegal drugs. In a recent national survey, one out of four single men ages 19 to 26 say their drinking causes them problems at work or problems with aggression, compared with just one out of seven married guys this age.

3. IT WILL MAKE YOU HAPPY. For most people, the joys of the single life and of divorce are overrated. Overall, 40 percent of married people, compared with about a quarter of singles or cohabitors, say they are "very happy" with life in general. Married people are also only about half as likely as singles or cohabitors to say they are unhappy with their lives.

How happy are the divorced? If people divorce in order to be happy, as we are often told, the majority should demand their money back. Just 18 percent of divorced adults say they are "very happy," and divorced adults are twice as likely as married folk to say they are "not too happy" with life in general. Only a minority of divorcing adults go on to make marriages that are happier than the one they left. "Divorce or be miserable," certain cultural voices tell us, but, truth be told, "Divorce and be miserable" is at least as likely an outcome.

This is not just an American phenomenon. One recent study by Steven Stack and J. Ross Eshleman of 17 developed nations found that "married persons have a significantly higher level of happiness than persons who are not married," even after controlling for gender, age, education, children, church attendance, financial satisfaction, and self-reported health. Further, "the strength of the association between being married and being happy is remarkably consistent across nations." Marriage boosted financial satisfaction and health. But being married conferred a happiness advantage over and above its power to improve the pocketbook and the health chart. Cohabitation, by contrast, did not increase financial satisfaction or perceived health, and the boost to happiness from having a live-in lover was only about a quarter of that of being married. Another large study, of 100,000 Norwegians, found that, with both men and women, "the married have the highest level of subjective well-being, followed by the widowed." Even long-divorced people who cohabited were not any happier than singles.

2. YOUR KIDS WILL LOVE YOU MORE. Divorce weakens the bonds between parents and children over the long run. Adult children of divorce describe relationships with both their mother and their father less positively, on average, and they are about 40 percent less likely than adults from intact marriages to say they see either parent at least several times a week.

1. YOU'LL HAVE BETTER SEX, MORE OFTEN. Despite the lurid Sex in the City marketing that promises singles erotic joys untold, both husbands and wives are more likely to report that they have an extremely satisfying sex life than are singles or cohabitors. (Divorced women were the least likely to have a sex life they found extremely satisfying emotionally.) For one thing, married people are more likely to have a sex life. Single men are 20 times more likely, and single women ten times more likely, not to have had sex even once in the past year than the married. (Almost a quarter of single guys and 30 percent of single women lead sexless lives.)

Married people are also the most likely to report a highly satisfying sex life. Wives, for example, are almost twice as likely as divorced and never-married women to have a sex life that a) exists and b) is extremely satisfying emotionally. Contrary to popular lore, for men, having a wife beats shacking up by a wide margin: 50 percent of husbands say sex with their partner is extremely satisfying physically, compared with 39 percent of cohabiting men.

How can a piece of paper work such miracles? For surprisingly, the piece of paper, and not just the personal relationship, matters a great deal. People who live together, for the most part, don't reap the same kinds of benefits that men and women who marry do. Something about marriage as a social institution — a shared aspiration and a public, legal vow — gives wedlock the power to change individuals' lives.

By increasing confidence that this partnership will last, marriage allows men and women to specialize — to take on those parts of life's tasks, that one person does better or enjoys more than the other. Though this specialization is often along traditional gender lines, it doesn't have to be. Even childless married couples benefit from splitting up the work. Married households have twice the talent, twice the time, and twice the labor pool of singles. Over time, as spouses specialize, each actually produces more in both market and non-market goods than singles who have to shoulder all of life's tasks on their own.

But because marriage is a partnership in the whole of life, backed up by family, community, and religious values, marriage can do what economic partnerships don't: give a greater sense of meaning and purpose to life (a reason to exercise or cut back on booze, work harder, and to keep plugging even in the middle of those times when the marriage may not feel gratifying at all). Married people are both responsible for and responsible to another human being, and both halves of that dynamic lead the married to live more responsible, fruitful, and satisfying lives. Marriage is a transformative act, changing the way two people look at each other, at the future, and at their roles in society. And it changes the way significant others — from family to congregation to insurance companies and the IRS — look at and treat that same couple. Sexual fidelity, an economic union, a parenting alliance, the promise of care that transcends day-to-day emotions: all these are what give a few words mumbled before a clergyman or judge the power to change lives.

What proportion of unhappily married couples who stick it out stay miserable? The latest data show that within five years, just 12 percent of very unhappily married couples who stick it out are still unhappy; 70 percent of the unhappiest couples now describe their marriage as "very" or "quite" happy.

Just as good marriages go bad, bad marriages go good. And they have a better chance of doing so in a society that recognizes the value of marriage than one that sings the statistically dubious joys of divorce.

ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

Maggie Gallagher "Why Marriage is Good for You." City Journal (Autumn, 2000).
 
Like Nancy, I got (first time) married later than anyone I know. When I was younger I just didn't see any need for it. The companionship and support of a good relationship should be the same whether there is a marraige or not.

The committment should be there too, marriage or not. I don't look at marraige it as solidifying the commitment. I look at it in a harsher sense, sort of like a business contract. I think it's smart to have some *contractural protection* when you comingle your finances and own big ticket items in both names. I was in a relationship for several years where we made many joint purchases, ... thankfully nothing big like a house, just little stuff. There came a time when I wanted out of the relationship, and I ended up just walking away from everything just to get out. The *material stuff* seemed petty at the time to fight very hard over so I just left it all to him. The *stuff* part bothered me for a while, not because I'm very material focused, but because money has always been hard to come by. It bothered me most when I had to purchase the same items again. I'm sure most of us in nonmarriage relationships have experienced something similar.

I think marraige is also a *partnership contract* if you plan to raise kids. Again, in the harsh sense of a business contract, it is a legalling binding agreement. Does that ruin the relationship? Maybe for some. If you don't plan to raise kids, or your kids are grown, and you don't comingle finances then marriage is just a lovely formal agreement to stay together. If you get married in a church then you have that to add to the lovely formal agreement. Otherwise, if your promises are good, who needs it?
 
Ouch ~ I don't like number 2!! I think Mrs. Gallagher was pretty harsh on that one! I'm the product of parents who have been married for 43 years, but I just can't imagine loving either of them any less if they had divorced.

Sarah
 
I'm also not thrilled with #2 (actually, many of the points make me see red, but we need not go there). My daughter gets and gives more love than I see in many of the lives of the married friends I have.
 
I lived with my husband first, but I wouldn't say I'd never marry someone I haven't lived with. I think that if I am alone later in life, I won't live with someone. But as I said before...I'm pretty sure I won't want to get remarried.

If I get lonely, I'll get a dog. Or maybe move in with some girlfriends, so we can be like The Golden Girls.:)
 
Amen Dutchie! Yay...I found someone else who thinks exactly like me! I'm not a freak after all :) Well, not for that reason anyway.

Shonie
 
Shonie-
As a tax attorney I can tell you that for most couples it's better to be married from both an income and transfer tax (estate and gift tax) perspective. Also, if you're not married, you need to be sure to appointment a health care agent in an Advance Directive if you want the person you're living with to be your agent. There are many other areas in which the law gives advantages to spouses. In short, an unmarried straight couple has all the disadvantages of a gay couple regarding legal rights.

Straight couples are lucky because they get to choose. The law is patently unfair to gay couples, and should grant them every right a married couple has, including the right to be married. (Just had to get that in there).

Otherwise, I agree with you. :)

-Nancy
 
IMO, I don't view marriage as a NECCESSITY and respect anyone who feels it's not for them. I don't believe that you HAVE to be married to raise children, etc. in today's world. I obviously believe in it for myself though. For me, it was the right choice and I do not regret doing it but would never try to push the concept on anyone. In fact, I think marriage is taken too lightly today judging by the divorce statistics. They are downright scarey! I am not saying a couple who can't work it out should stay together b/c I sooo do not agree with that BUT I think A LOT more thought needs to go into it when deciding if one should marry or not in the first place.


~Wendy~

I smoked my last cigarette on March 17, 2004 at 10:00 pm!

http://lilypie.com/days/050519/1/0/1/-5/.png[/img]
EDD: 05/19/05
 
You really don't have laws that give unmarried cohabiting couples (hetero or homosexual) the same rights as married couples?

Overhere, there are no legal or tax differences.

Dutchie
 
I so agree. It's interesting that when I tell people I wouldn't get married again, they immediately think I don't love my husband, which couldn't be further from the truth. We love each other a lot and are very committed. The work it takes to maintain a relationship is so immense. Marriage is the land of never ending compromise, and I get really sick of it. I would just like everything to be my way just once! Without having to find some middle ground. It is exhausting. I rejoice when DH is out of town on business and I can order the kind of pizza I want! Geesh!

I think I would want to date, but live with someone again? No, I wouldn't do it.
 
Dating has changed a lot since the 1970, I would hate to have to start dating again. It would be hard if not impossible for me to find someone that is as perfect of a match as my wife is. If something happened to her, I couldn’t see me remarrying.

Ivorygorgon, You need to try a half - and - half pizza. LOL
 
That's EXACTLY what I feel, but haven't found the right way to express it! I could never tell my husband, though, because he'd be insulted. I'll let him think that it's because I don't think I could ever find someone as wonderful.
 
My husband and I have a lot in common in our tastes so I don't find compromising a problem....he may tell you different, LOL!. He is not that particular on most things so I usually get my way. When he is pretty insistent on something, I usually give in because I know it's very important to him. But, I would imagine if two different perspectives were important to each of us very often, that mean a lot of conflict. I don't eat pizza so he gets his all to himself, LOL!

We got married for reasons associated to what Nancy was talking about...laws and such. Financially, in this country you make out better if you're married. Affordable health insurance being one situation. When we got married, DH worked for a non-profit who did not provide health insurance. Because we are married, I carry him on mine.

I totally understand why people think marriage is not necessary. For us it was a preference.
 
After I got divorced (first DH cheated bla, bla bla,) I said I would never get married again. So, my now DH and I lived together for about 8 years. After a few years, I started feeling like I was just a roommate and new I wanted to either move out or marry (he was ready to marry years earlier but I wasn't). I really didn't want to part from him so we got married. I'm so happy we did because I feel more like we are one. Like we are really a team. He said he always felt like that and didn't really need the piece of paper but for me I did.

Joanne
 
Donna, I am in the same mindset as you are. I was married young, and for 14 years. We got divorced. Everything is fine-we get along great. I've been in a relationship for 2.5 years and have absolutely NO desire to be married or even live together. Partly because of kids, but also because I LIKE having a night alone to myself once in awhile, and MY HOUSE is how I want it, not someone else's tastes. (DBF and I have very different tastes in decorating-no deer heads on the wall for me! LOL).

I'm afraid at some point my feelings will be the demise of my relationship as I think DBF will eventually want to marry. I'll cross that road when I get to it I guess. But for now, I can't see myself ever marrying again. Maybe I'm being selfish; but I also don't want to ever get divorced again. I never thought my first marriage would end, so how do you know the second time will work?

Kinda scary.....
 
For me, I've got to come to terms with the word "commitment" in the first place before I even go there with marriage. I am sometimes a little too independent. I only say that because there are times when I feel ready (almost) for dating again. Mostly though, someone tries to get a little serious with me and I put my running shoes on and don't stop running.

But I love my space, and I don't share well. And I don't want to be a control freak and I don't want a doormat. I'd really love it if a perfectly compatible man, I mean compatible man moved right next door to me. How cool would that be:p ;)
 
Donna, I am with you all the way. I am keeping Rich until death do us part and I won't take that where it could go.;) If I haven't driven him off in 18 years, I think I can safely assume he's in for the long haul too. I can't imagine wanting to commit for a lifetime ever again. Once has been enough and I have to wonder what life as an independant woman may hold and explore that as far as I can. I think I could be good at it too. It's a rather exciting thought, one I hope not to experience before I really do get to push him around in his wheelchair while lecturing him about taking care of himself when he was young, which he refuses to do still. I'm not so romantic as I once might have been. There's no one you can't live without and I am going highly encourage my kids to explore their independance long before settling down. I was always in the company of my family, be it parents or sisters and at 23, along came Rich and I have never been independant. I can't imagine not relishing it at some point and for a very long time should it ever occur. I think this is a great topic!
Bobbi http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif "Chick's rule!"

Tell me, what it is you plan to do with your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver
 

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