Rounded Shoulders

[NinjaMom]

Hi Cathe,

I recently had a consult with a personal trainer and a visit to my chiropracter for shoulder pain. Both commented that my shoulders are rounded forward and that I should lay off any chest work for awhile. I've been doing gym styles recently and have really made some progress (all 72 pushups on my toes ) so I'm concerned that omitting chest work will make me lose what I have gained in strength. They recommended focusing on exercises that will increase strength in my upper back (rhomboids, mid traps et.) to create more balance. But I've always used your strength workouts so I thought I was working both my back and chest equally so how could I get so out of balance? I am also currently screening for my black belt and I do get alot of upper body workout with sparring, pad strikes, and classes all of which contributed to my overuse shoulder pain.

I was hoping you could give me your opinion on this and if you would recommend stopping all chest work. Also, are there any other back exercises other than seated rows & pullovers that really work the upper back?

Thanks! Glad to read that your rehab is going well and I'm really looking forward to new workouts.

JJ

 

[Cathe Friedrich]

Hi JJ! I personally would not stop your chest workouts all together. You may want to go lighter with weight to keep the chest muscles from gaining more size and or strength or even cut back on your chest workouts to once a week or once every 10 days. But do this "while" you are working your back.

If you want more variety in your back workouts, your best bet will be to get a local gym membership or invest in a couple of pieces of equipment for your home. Back and hamstrings are probably the two toughest muscle groups to work out with great variety and ultimate strength challenge in the home environment (that is if your home environment consists of basic weights vs any other equipment).

One easy and reasonably priced purchase that will make a world of difference in your back strength is a pull up bar.

Another popular (but more expensive) back unit is a pull down cable unit. This unit will allow you to use several different hand grip pieces (straight bar, close grip, v-bar, rope) which will hit your back from a variety of angles.

Another unit is called a seated row, again with different hand pieces allowing you to recruit muscles from a variety of angles.

Purchasing all these pieces could be more costly than a gym membership so you may want to check out a gym on a guest pass to determine which way you want to go.

Hope this helps!

 

[Cathe Friedrich]

Hi JJ! I personally would not stop your chest workouts all together. You may want to go lighter with weight to keep the chest muscles from gaining more size and or strength or even cut back on your chest workouts to once a week or once every 10 days. But do this "while" you are working your back.

If you want more variety in your back workouts, your best bet will be to get a local gym membership or invest in a couple of pieces of equipment for your home. Back and hamstrings are probably the two toughest muscle groups to work out with great variety and ultimate strength challenge in the home environment (that is if your home environment consists of basic weights vs any other equipment).

One easy and reasonably priced purchase that will make a world of difference in your back strength is a pull up bar.

Another popular (but more expensive) back unit is a pull down cable unit. This unit will allow you to use several different hand grip pieces (straight bar, close grip, v-bar, rope) which will hit your back from a variety of angles.

Another unit is called a seated row, again with different hand pieces allowing you to recruit muscles from a variety of angles.

Purchasing all these pieces could be more costly than a gym membership so you may want to check out a gym on a guest pass to determine which way you want to go.

Hope this helps!

 

[_Teresa_]

Hi Cathe,

I see that you suggested a pull up bar for helping increase back strength.

I have a question ... Does altering your hand placement on the bar help target different muscles of the back (i.e., hands closer together/farther apart or palms facing away from/toward your face)?

Thanks!
Teresa

 

[NinjaMom]

Thank you Cathe!

I did not want to stop chest work either so I'm glad that was your response. I will continue but cut back on the weight for awhile.

We just bought a Hoist V2 home gym that uses a cable and pulley system so I have the option to do many of the back exercises you suggested.

I really appreciate your help on this.

JJ

 

[pjval]

Cathe,

You suggest cable pulldowns w/varied handgrips for additional back work. Would you suggest doing these reps and set similar to what is used we do in upper body pyramid? Thanks,
Pam

 

[Stebby]

Hi JJ,

I had severe shoulder pain and rounded shoulders a few years ago. My physiotherapist diagnosed me with a very weak supraspinatus (one of the four rotator cuff muscles) and said my lower neck and upper chest muscles were trying to take the load. I was prescribed a lot of rotator cuff and rear shoulder exercises, and they really helped. I never gave up my chest work -- kept up with both chest and back weight work -- but simply added the shoulder exercises. There were about 8 exercises altogether, about half of which were stretching exercises for chest and shoulders (the other half were dumbbell exercises, including the rotator cuff one that Cathe does in GS Legs & Shoulders).

I no longer have rounded shoulders, and while my pain hasn't completed gone away (it shows up again if I sleep in a bad position), it is very manageable and I don't think of it most of the time.

Most of us do use our chest muscles more in our day to day life -- this was true of me, and it may be true for you, even though in your workouts you are balanced. It's what we do in the rest of the day that throws us off!!

I'm not a medical professional, so I don't know if your situation has any similarities to mine -- just thought I would share my experience because our symptoms sound kind of similar!

Good luck with your shoulder pain.

Stebby

 

[kathryn]

>
>Most of us do use our chest muscles more in our day to day
>life -- this was true of me, and it may be true for you, even
>though in your workouts you are balanced. It's what we do in
>the rest of the day that throws us off!!

How true!
Unless you are a fisherman/woman, pulling in nets all day, or someone who rows boats a lot in your daily life, or maybe a tree cutter who pulls on a saw, we don't get a lot of back work in everyday life: most of what we do, from pushing a lawnmower, to pushing a grocery cart, involves...pushing! And therefore works the chest and front delt. Many of us sit at computers and/or desk during much of the day, which just adds to the imbalance of havng a weaker back and tigher chest/front delt. And that imbalance can really wreck havoc on the shoulder girdle and cause impingement and other problems.

That's why I think it's important to balance out these daily imbalances by doing MORE work for the back and rear shoulder than for the front. I rarely do front shoulder exercises, because I agree with Jerry Robinson that the front shoulder is worked enough during chest work. And I make sure to include rear shoulder and upper back moves in all my chest/back workouts. I also look for imbalances in the workout, and if the chest is worked more than the back, I omit some of the chest exercises. And since the lats are somewhat bigger than the chest, if you use X amount of weight to do chest presses, I believe you should be able to use the same amount of weight, or a bit more, lat rows.

I didn't have aweful posture before doing this, but it has improved even so. And a troublesome shoulder has been much less troublesome, almost to the point of my not remembering that it ever was troublesome (unless I overdo!).

FYI: one way you can check on your own if you have rounded shoulders (it's a pretty good indicator): stand upright with your hands down by your side, as they fall naturally...do not continue to read until you do this, because you don't want it to affect your stance ;-) ...
now see which way your palms are facing. They should face each other, and with some people, they even turn forward a bit. If they are facing backwards, you probably have rounded shoulders. Just changing your arm position so they turn toward each other instead of backwards can help you feel what good posture would be.

 

[_Teresa_]

Hi Kathryn,

Thanks for the tip! Do you do more upper back and rear shoulder work by doubling-up on some of Cathe's exercises? If so, any in particular? I don't have "bad" posture, but I could always use improvement. And, of course, I certainly don't want to do anything that might make it worse. Do you also use a pull-up bar?

Teresa

 

[NinjaMom]

Hi Stebby,

Thanks for your input. The personal trainer recommended that I do more rotator cuff and rear delt exercises too. My pain is in the front of my shoulder and when I raise my arm I feel either a tendon or ligament rolling and a clicking noise. I can really feel it if I press on what feels like a tendon so I'm thinking it could be tendonitits. I get a lot of extra upper body work with my karate which I wasn't taking into account and like you said, it's so true that we use our chest much more throughout the day. I just wasn't compensating for that x(

Glad to hear you solved your rounded shoulder issue and that the pain is getting better.

JJ

 

[NinjaMom]

Kathryn,

I agree! I think working the rear shoulder and upper back more to compensate for all the imbalance created by daily use of the chest and front of shoulders is great advice. I'm going to start that right away.

I checked my posture as you indicated and the palms of my hands face eachother so maybe the shoulders are not as rounded as these people made me think.

JJ

 

[kathryn]

Hi Teresa,

>Thanks for the tip! Do you do more upper back and rear
>shoulder work by doubling-up on some of Cathe's exercises? If
>so, any in particular?

I actually end up omitting some chest work in some workouts (Slow and Heavy, for example) and adding rear shoulder/upper back work when there is none. I will sometimes just let a chest exercise play on my DVD, and while 'the crew' does that, I do rear shoulder or upper back flyes (rear shoulder with less weight, and arms somewhat forward, upper back with a bit heavier weight, and arms pulled back somewhat). Or I'll replay a back segment, and just do an extra shoulder/upper back move.

I also do some rhomboid/upper back exercises I snitched from Tracie Long Training workouts: leaning over at the hips, with hands on a stability ball, lift one arm out to the side and continue the movement until the arm is reaching toward the ceiling, making sure to pinch with the rhomboids. You don't even need weights with this (or very light ones) to feel the work.

I'm also careful to keep my shoulders back and down (about in 5 o'clock position if someone were to look at me from my left side) when doing upper body work: the "scapular retraction" that Cathe emphasizes in Power Hour and Slow and Heavy.

Another 'trick' I learned from watching an "Aggressive Strength Training" kettlebell DVD by Mike Mahler (http://www.mikemahler.com/ ), who is a strength and conditioning coach and a Kettlebell expert, is to inhale when doing the lifting portion of upright rows and lat rows. This seems to support the shoulders by having air in the chest cavity and makes it easier to keep good posture while doing those exercises (and it actually feels more natural to me than exhaling for those moves).

 

[_Teresa_]

Hi Kathryn,

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I really appreciate it! I guess I never thought about how much the chest muscles are worked already in everyday activities. Thanks again.

Teresa