release date?

I can't disagree that they could have indicated it would take a year to ship since most pre-orders are shipped in a few months (in my limited experience) and to have enquiries at around the 9 month mark is not unreasonable. While we can see now the amount of work involved and to realise this project is unusual in the amount of work involved lets remember we have shelled out our hard earned $$ on good faith. To be frank, I don't think I will participate in another pre-order from Cathe based on the fact that they won't even respond with a tentative time frame at this point regardless of the fact that they have apparently been "burn't" in the past when they have done so. While I realise this project is different in magnitude from their others, anyone managing a project this size has a target date. All they have to say they're trying for Xmas and I think most people would be happy. I wonder if they give a date too far in the future they know they will have a flurry of cancellations. I'm not bashing here but as stated, THEY HAVE OUR $$.
 
Thanks for clearing up what I was trying to say. No I'm not in foul mood, but I am getting quite impatient with the fact they can't even give an approximate date. They are working with a huge professional company "NFL", so don't tell me everyone doesn't have deadline dates....If there on target say that, if not say that....but don't just say....you'll get it when you get it and who knows it may be set for a Spring 09 date....I love the stuff Cathe puts out, but I agree I think the next time around I will wait to shell out my money until I have some sort of date.
 
hrcfitness said:
Thanks for clearing up what I was trying to say. No I'm not in foul mood, but I am getting quite impatient with the fact they can't even give an approximate date. They are working with a huge professional company "NFL", so don't tell me everyone doesn't have deadline dates....If there on target say that, if not say that....but don't just say....you'll get it when you get it and who knows it may be set for a Spring 09 date....I love the stuff Cathe puts out, but I agree I think the next time around I will wait to shell out my money until I have some sort of date.
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We certainly understand it gets frustrating waiting, but let me take a break from chaptering the STS DVDs to explain a few things. The reason we don’t give release dates at the beginning of a presale has nothing to do with getting people to preorder or marketing. On a project with 41 shows there is just no way to give a release date with any degree of certainty before it is filmed and edited. Just look at all the times you see instructors or companies announce a release date only to have to change the date numerous times because of unexpected problems. This has happened to us too in the past and we have learned from our mistakes.

Each video project we do is unique and a project the size of STS has never been attempted by us or anyone in our industry before. With each production we try to raise the bar. We’re doing many things this time that we have never done before, like having over 1200 custom songs made for the STS series and then having them scored to each exercise and break. To predict how long this would take at the time of the start of the presale would have just been impossible as the composers need to see the finished video before they could even begin to bid on a project of this size and complexity. Then for a composer to accurately predict how long it would take to create 1200 songs after seeing STS would nearly be impossible. And this is just one example of the many variables that go into determining the production time of a DVD.

It is easy to say how long it would take to manufacture a product you have made many times before, but to say how long it would take to "create" something brand new (i.e. music) is very difficult at best.

Yes, we have a huge company working on this project. There is no better production company than NFL Films, so rest assured we have the best people in the industry working on this project and they are working on it seven days per week. But not even they could have accurately predicted how long it would take to complete STS and this is why we haven’t said anything so far about a release date. From a business stand point we have a huge economic incentive to bring STS to market as quickly as possible. But we also want the project to be our "crown jewel" and this is not something that can be rushed.

I will say you’re not going to have to wait until next Spring for STS. That would be ridiculous. We’ve already said you will see STS this year, so the end is truly near. I t has now only been 5 ½ months since we finished filming STS and the end of this project is now in sight. Cathe will have more to say on this shortly.
 
Hi

I have the agree with the majority here. I don't think its unreasonable for SNM to give some indication of release dates. Yes STS is a huge project and Cathes quality of product is unmatched. But people have invested a huge amount of funds into preordering and some idea of possible release date would be good customer service. This is the first time I have preordered a workout and personally I would not do it again.
 
I think it would have been nice if customers were told at the beginning of the presale that the release date was too difficult to predict, but it would definitely not be before fall or something like that. There were too many customers hoping to get it by a certain time when it appears that SNM knew that wasn't a possibility. I don't think that is good customer service to have customers getting their hopes up for something that the company knows for sure won't happen. I know that there were threads before summer with people posting guesses on when STS would be released and there were many posts with summer guesses. I think that would have been the time for SNM to step in and say it wasn't going to happen so that they wouldn't have so many disappointed and frustrated preorder customers.

Erica
 
Although, I don't know all of the business decisions behind the pre-sale date, in hindsight, it appears it might have been better to announce the pre-sale date around the end of the filming stage. Even from the beginning without knowing the exact amount of time needed post filming, it HAD to be at least a couple of months for this many dvds.

Personally, if I absolutely know I'm going to buy something anyway, like STS, I would still do the pre-buy even if it means waiting for a long time. I still saved some money, I just shelled it out really early :p. And for those who bought in the VERY beginning, they saved even more.

There are other products I would not do this with as I might change my mind, but I figured why would I not want this program? I love Cathe, I love what her dvds have done for me and even if I buy another instructors series, I would still want this one too.

I can also totally understand why people are frustrated, and would not participate in another prebuy after this experience.
 
EricaH said:
I think it would have been nice if customers were told at the beginning of the presale that the release date was too difficult to predict, but it would definitely not be before fall or something like that. There were too many customers hoping to get it by a certain time when it appears that SNM knew that wasn't a possibility. I don't think that is good customer service to have customers getting their hopes up for something that the company knows for sure won't happen. I know that there were threads before summer with people posting guesses on when STS would be released and there were many posts with summer guesses. I think that would have been the time for SNM to step in and say it wasn't going to happen so that they wouldn't have so many disappointed and frustrated preorder customers.

Erica
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Actually, we did tell people that it was too difficult to estimate a ship date at the beginning of the presale and that they should not preorder unless they were willing to wait.

As for responding to peoples posts speculating on when STS would be released it just wouldn't make any sense to do so as people probably predicted a release date for every month between spring of 2008 and summer of 2009. The only way to respond would be to give a release date which we did not know at the time. Again, we like to hold off announcing a release date until we feel fairly confident about it being accurate. Until a few days ago this just wasn't the case.

I would also like to remind people that they're not locked into their presale order. We have always refunded any presale request from anyone who no longer wished to wait. We certainly appreciate those who have pre-ordered and trust us to deliver a quality product as soon as we can, but nobody is locked into their order.
 
I ordered in the very begining. I have no thoughts of canceling my order. I understand your not being able to approximate a release date without somehow being chained to that estimate. But all that said my advice would be to start your presale further along in the process.
 
PhyllisG said:
I ordered in the very begining. I have no thoughts of canceling my order. I understand your not being able to approximate a release date without somehow being chained to that estimate. But all that said my advice would be to start your presale further along in the process.
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Yes, we could certainly start our presales later and it is probably a good idea to do so. But please understand that we will not offer the same discounts as we do now if we adopt this model. The discounts we offer now are based on the fact that you have to wait a long time before you actually get your product and are proportional to the time you have to wait. We’ve actually had several discussions over the last year of changing our business model to not starting a presale until about 1 week before we release the DVDs. The discounts would not be nearly as great as you see now, but your wait time would only be a week or so and this would eliminate many of the problems you see with the way we do our current presales.
 
I personally like the business model just as it is and always has been. I like getting the deep, deep discounts, and knowing the care with which SNM has always produced its products, I've always known that the wait times might be substantial . . . and the wait quite worth it when I get the products in my hot little hands.

I'm fully aware that the early pre-orderers are in large part helping to finance the actual production, and that's just fine with me. As I noted in a post about a year ago "My Personal Debt of Gratitude to Cathe", I will always be loyal to her productions because of their quality, enjoyability and how they have enhanced my overall fitness and health. And I personally think that someone who creates DVDs with such care and such lack of condescension to her customer base is someone whose business is worth supporting.

A-Jock

A-Jock
 
SNM, I personally prefer the current method of presale -- deep-deep discount. I know in the end, I'll end up buying whatever Cathe comes out with, so might as well get a deep discount. The wait is tormenting, but I know I'll end up with a good product.
 
Maybe there is more of a middle point than going to 1 week? No need to answer, just a thought.

If given a choice, of course I'd prefer the longer wait with better discounts. And this was a learning experience for everyone, knowing what we know now, people can make their decision to take the discount along with the wait, or pay full price once released.
 
Aquajock said:
I personally like the business model just as it is and always has been. I like getting the deep, deep discounts, and knowing the care with which SNM has always produced its products, I've always known that the wait times might be substantial . . . and the wait quite worth it when I get the products in my hot little hands.

I'm fully aware that the early pre-orderers are in large part helping to finance the actual production, and that's just fine with me. As I noted in a post about a year ago "My Personal Debt of Gratitude to Cathe", I will always be loyal to her productions because of their quality, enjoyability and how they have enhanced my overall fitness and health. And I personally think that someone who creates DVDs with such care and such lack of condescension to her customer base is someone whose business is worth supporting.

A-Jock

A-Jock
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I agree with A- jock here....this is only my second preorder and I know that when I get my product...It will be well worth the wait. I spent the money so long ago now, that it will be like a GREAT big giant gift to myself.
 
celestialtimes said:
I agree with A- jock here....this is only my second preorder and I know that when I get my product...It will be well worth the wait. I spent the money so long ago now, that it will be like a GREAT big giant gift to myself.
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I agree with AJ and celestialtimes here. I had no idea STS would take this long. However, I do not care. I am excited about getting it and even more excited that I got such a great discount from the presale.

So my vote is to stick with your current presale model!!
 
Another Satisfied Customer

SNM Videos said:
Yes, we could certainly start our presales later and it is probably a good idea to do so. But please understand that we will not offer the same discounts as we do now if we adopt this model. The discounts we offer now are based on the fact that you have to wait a long time before you actually get your product and are proportional to the time you have to wait. We’ve actually had several discussions over the last year of changing our business model to not starting a presale until about 1 week before we release the DVDs. The discounts would not be nearly as great as you see now, but your wait time would only be a week or so and this would eliminate many of the problems you see with the way we do our current presales.
Click to expand...

Cathe and Chris:

I read the response Chris posted earlier this month about the turnaround time for producing STS, and I want to thank both of you for your commitment to quality. STS is more expensive than any workout series I have invested in before, and I value quality more than production speed. I told Cathe last November when she first announced STS that it would be my delight to support her through another preorder even if it was a long one, and I stand by my words. I counted the cost before I participated in this and went into this expecting it to take close to a year to film, edit, and duplicate that many workouts. I am hoping to receive STS for a Christmas present so I can start the first week in January.

You consistently deliver quality products that stand the test of time, and I have not regretted a single preorder. I have faith that these workouts will be worth the wait. Patience is necessary for a little while, but quality endures forever. I appreciate the money and time being invested in STS and pray that it exceeds your hopes and expectations.

I am with those who hope you will continue rewarding patience and loyalty with deep discounts for customers who support you with early orders. This way gives everyone the freedom to jump in at any stage of the journey. Those who want to wait until the workouts are filmed can do so, and those who want to wait until a release date is announced can hold out for the final phase and receive a smaller discount. Since that option is already available to those who want a shipping date before ordering, I do not see how taking away the early discount will benefit anyone. For those who need to control spending, the deep discount makes these workouts affordable. Please take this into consideration when making your final decision. I saved around $100.00 on STS. There is no way I could have made that much interest on my investment in a year. I am a satisfied customer who is happy with your current business model.

Thanks for all your hard work. Your workouts are worth the wait. Have a blessed week! :)

Blessings,
Heather B.

"So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God" (1 Corinthians 10:31 NIV).
 
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I love the deep discounts associated with the current business model. I don't mind waiting at all--as long as it takes, in fact. I've never been disappointed by Cathe and company.

I was afraid it was going to be released this last summer when I was too pregnant to start it, but now I'll be ready--so I'm actually glad that it's taken longer than I originally anticipated.:D

Maggie:)
 
I am a deep discount kind of girl too!! It is a LONG wait, that's for sure, but I knew it would be on day one of the presale... Cathe can run her business as she likes and everyone has an individual choice to particpate when and if they want to.... as well as everyone has a right to voice their opinion!
 
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