? re: Form with Rear Delt work

[jmurphy]

Hi Cathe,

This has probably been asked before but...

How do I engage my rear delts when doing straight arm rear delt presses? Rear delt flyes?

I did S&H Legs and Shoulders today and when I worked the rear delts with straight arms I actually felt it in my triceps. This has happened in other workouts also.

I have the same trouble with the rear delt flyes in that I don't feel them in the rear delt but between the shoulder blades. Shouldn't I feel it more on the back of the cap of the shoulder?

Any pointer you can give would be great. Thanks a bunch for your time.

Jamie

 

[Gayle]

Bump...

 

[kathryn]

To feel them more in the rear delts, make sure you aren't lifting your arms back at all (which would engage the triceps). Rather, lift them out to the side, or even into a "y" or "v" shape (you may have to reduce the weight when doing this, as it remove a bit of the help from the back muscles).

 

[jmurphy]

RE: ? re: Form with Rear Delt Work

Thank you for your pointer!

I can understand how this would work when doing the seated, bent arm type of rear delt flye with the arms going to the side and slightly toward the front ( "y" or "v"), but how would it work when we are standing, and we bend over with a flat back, then push the weights with straight arms to the rear? Try as I might, I always feel it in the triceps.

Thanks again!
Jamie

 

[roe]

RE: ? re: Form with Rear Delt Work

Hi Jamie,

I'm a personal trainer so maybe I can help.

On the straight arm extension, try flexing the elbows a little bit. The triceps will generate less force from a slight bent arm position allowing you to concentrate on isolation of the rear deltoids.

The joint action is still shoulder extension so don't add any movement at the elbow joint. Just add the little bend and see if that helps.

-Roe

 

[kathryn]

RE: ? re: Form with Rear Delt Work

>Thank you for your pointer!
>
>I can understand how this would work when doing the seated,
>bent arm type of rear delt flye with the arms going to the
>side and slightly toward the front ( "y" or "v"), but how
>would it work when we are standing, and we bend over with a
>flat back, then push the weights with straight arms to the
>rear? Try as I might, I always feel it in the triceps.
>
>Thanks again!
>Jamie

Actually, I substitute the other version when Cathe does the "pushing to the rear" move, as I feel it works the triceps more than the rear shoulder (one of the functions of the triceps is to lift the arm backward, so it makes sense that they would be involved in the movement).

 

[roe]

RE: ? re: Form with Rear Delt Work

Hi Kathryn and Jamie,

The joint action of the triceps is elbow extension. The triceps work as primary movers during exercises where elbow extension occurs, such as overhead presses, lying or seated/standing extensions, kickbacks, etc.

The triceps are not working as primary movers in the straight arm rear delt exercise. The joint action here is pure shoulder extension which targets the rear deltoids as prime movers. However, if the elbows are perfectly straight while pressing back, the tricep muscles are on full contraction. Bending them just a little bit can take some tension off, allowing more focus on the rear delt. The key word here is focus. While you can't completely remove the triceps from the exercise, you can let the arms relax and concentrate on pressing the weights back by contracting at the shoulder joint versus the elbow joint.

Kathryn, I agree that this is an exercise that requires light weights and a very good kinesthetic awareness. The rear deltoids are a small muscle group and do not need to be loaded up with weight.

-Roe

 

[kathryn]

RE: ? re: Form with Rear Delt Work

Although the primary function of he triceps is for elbow extension, I've read that they also come into play quite a bit to turn the arm from a hands-in position to a hands-back position (is that pronation or supination? I mix those up all the time) and to lift the arm behnd the body.

I prefer doing a rear shoulder exercise that involves the rear shoulder a bit more and keeps the triceps out of the picture. I might try your "elbows bent" version next time, "just for variety!"

 

[jmurphy]

Kathryn and Roe,

Thank you both so much for your feedback with my post. I think that applying your knowledge to my rear delt work will make the exercises that I do much more effective. Thanks again and have a fantastic weekend!!!!!

Jamie

 

[roe]

Hey Kathryn,

Douglas Brooks states in Effective Strength Training that the tricep muscles are unaffected by grip position and do not contribute to pronation or supination of the forearm. I believe their function in moving the arm backward (shoulder extension) is stabilization at the elbow since there is no movement at the elbow joint. Don't quote me on that one though! :7

The biceps (brachiradialis muscle in particular) group acts at the forearm and wrist, and this is why we do bicep exercises in both supination (palms up) and neutral (hammer) positions. Different positions challenge different parts of the muscle group.

Jamie - please let us know if our suggestions helped!

-Roe

 

[kathryn]

Roe,
I know I've read somewhere about triceps involved in pronation and lifting, but I don't know where. Maybe I'll come across it sometime again!

 

[roe]

I found this info quoted from a Douglas Brooks article ...

Just cause I find kinesiology so interesting, I am posting it. If you find that other source, definitely let me know! :7
========================================================
"Pronated, half-prone and supinated wrists can all be correctly used with elbow extension. Your choice of wrist position might depend on the type of equipment your client is using, the importance of maintaining starting stabilisation throughout the entire movement or the need to minimise orthopaedic stress. However, neither supination nor pronation affects elbow extension or the triceps musculature, as only the radius is involved. For this reason, there is no real advantage and there may actually be some mechanical disadvantage to using a variety of wrist positions. Therefore, whenever possible, it is reccommended that a hammer wrist in maintained for triceps work as this position allows clients to easily stabilise and maintain their starting positions from start to finish. Unnecessary mechanical stresses on the wrists, elbows and shoulders are minimised, if not eliminated."