Questions about Slow and Heavy

LeanneM

Cathlete
I'm just finishing up a rotation using the GS series (which I loved!), and decided to go ahead and order Slow & Heavy while waiting for the new DVD's to come out since I didn't want to lose any strength gains I've made.

Would it be a good idea to spend the week before S&H arrives doing a circuit-style format to give my body a break?

Also, I wasn't sure how much weight the S&H series uses since the weight levels aren't mentioned on the website. I can't spend money right now on new equipment (since I've been buying these new workouts!) and only have dumbbells up to 15 pounds. Should that be alright? (I'm not very strong, and can only do a few exercises with the 15's.)

Thanks in advance!
Leanne
 
Hi Leanne,

I just ordered the S&H as well along with the PP/SS. They will be here on Wednesday. I'm curious like you about the weight so hopefully someone on here will respond. I've been doing the GS series and love them too. I use them religiously every week along with PUB/PLB and ME, MM and others but feel I'm ready for a new challenge with heavier weight.

I'm going to be doing the March 06 rotation, Strong like a bull, and it uses the S&H series quite a bit. This will be my first actual rotation from this site, i've been just doing my own rotations alternating different muscle groups each day. I hope this gives me the new muscle mass I'm looking for. I've got dumbells up to 25#'s so I'm ready!

Annette
 
Hi Annette,

Yes, I'm looking for a new challenge, too, so I hope that S&H will be it! Like you, I was also just doing my own rotation, but I think that I'm going to look at the March 06 one you mentioned. Thanks for pointing it out!

Leanne
 
If I remember correctly: For SH Chest and Back, Cathe uses 12, 15 and 25 pound dumbbells. She actually drops down in weight after a set or two on some of the exercises, if I recall. In SH Bis and Tris, she uses 5, 8, 12 and 15 pound dumbbells, and a 25 and 30 pound barbell. Again, I think she drops down in weight on some exercises in between sets. In SH Leg and Soulders, Cathe uses 5, 8, 10, 15 and 20 pound dumbbells, a 40-pound dumbbell for plie squats, and a 50 pound barbell for squats and lunges.

She mentions during the introduction to the workouts that you will likely have to go lighter than you normally lift, because the slow count eliminates most momemtum.

Hope that helps.
 
Hi Deborah,

Thanks so much all this detailed info! This really helps a lot -- and makes me realize that I probably need to buy a few more dumbbells!

I really appreciate your help!
Leanne
 
You may not have to buy more dumbbells bc going SUPER SLOW like that does require alot of strength and momentum is completely eliminated, so I would just do it first and then decide.

On the slow and heavy legs, she uses that 30 or 40 pound dumbbel and I have substitued with two twenty pounders and then dropped to two 15s and I have even used my barbell before - you can make it work. I now own dumbbells up to 30 pounds...

Check your local second hand store - I pay about half price for my dumbbells at those locations versus brand new - - -)
 
Thanks for the input! Once I get the workouts, I'll definitely try them on their own at first to see if I need to buy more weights. And the ideas of using the barbell and checking second-hand stores are great ones, too!

Thanks!
Leanne
 
Although Cathe says that you may need to choose a lighter weight because of the slowness of the rep, this may or may not be necessary for you, and even if it is, it will only be so initially. You may, and I did and do, find yourself going beyond Cathe on weights for certain exercises and so you will eventually need 20 pound dumbells at least, and a barbell up to 60 pounds if you have a way to assist you getting it over your head (I use my table). I never match Cathe's 25 pounds on chest, but I go beyond her on back, biceps and shoulders, and match on triceps.

Why do you think you need to do a circuit week before S&H? GS is sufficiently different from S&H that this is not necessary. GS still has an element of endurance to it and varied rep counts. I do not think a circuit week is necessary, but do it if you want to. One thing ot bear in mind: when you have been doing strength excusively for a while, going back to strictly endurance work is a shock! It feels like you have lost ground. You haven't really, it's just your muscles get used to one type of training. It all boils down to whether or not you believe endurance training for the upper body has any value or not.

Clare
 
>
>Why do you think you need to do a circuit week before S&H? GS
>is sufficiently different from S&H that this is not necessary.
> GS still has an element of endurance to it and varied rep
>counts. I do not think a circuit week is necessary, but do it
>if you want to. One thing ot bear in mind: when you have been
>doing strength excusively for a while, going back to strictly
>endurance work is a shock! It feels like you have lost
>ground. You haven't really, it's just your muscles get used
>to one type of training. It all boils down to whether or not
>you believe endurance training for the upper body has any
>value or not.
>
>Clare

Hi Clare,

Thanks for responding! I'm not sure if I'm strong enough to match Cathe's weights -- but it's definitely a goal of mine to work on! As for the circuit week, I was doing that to try to take a break from all the lifting in the GS. I've really come to love Cathe's weight workouts, but I'm a cardio girl at heart, and thought it would be a nice break to do some of my favorite circuit workouts this week to change things up. Is that a bad idea?

Do you also know if it's a good to alternate between the various lifting DVD's? After getting SH, I'll also now have GS and PUB/PLB. I was thinking of starting a rotation that would alternate between them in two- or three-week, but I'm not sure if that's a good idea . . . . .

TIA!
Leanne
 
Leanne:

first, do not underestimate yourself. If you were to look at me, you would never think I could match Cathe's weights. I am very tall and lean, hfind it hard to build muscle. But when I do S&H assiduously, I start with lower weights than Cathe and end up going beyond her. It is possible to lift heavier than Cathe, for me and for you. Until you try S&H for 3 or 4 weeks, you don't know what you will be able to lift. remember: you build it up, gradually.

Secondly, if you want to do circuits, then go for it!! I was telling you, it's not "necessary." But is it a bad idea? No, of course not. Anything you do will only have beneficial effects upon your fitness, that is the final goal, right? Do what makes you feel good and what you enjoy. A week's circuits before you dive into a 3-4 week S&H rotation could be the break you need from heavy lifting. But what I said before still holds: many of us here have discussed the effects of returning to endurance lifting after S&H. It can hurt! It can make you feel that you've lost strength as you find you just can't keep up with Cathe,even if you used to do so very well! It's just that your muscles have acclimatized to a particular set of demands placed upon them, and now they will have to react to a different set of demands. It's a little struggle, one you get through with mental grit!

Thirdly, it's just fine to alternate between different styles of lifting. You could do 3-4 weeks of S&H, then 3-4 of GS, then 3-4 of PUB/PLB. Why not? Two weeks might not be long enough to stick with a particular rotation before you see results. 3-4 is better. When I do S&H I usually stay with it for 6 weeks, because I see enormous strength gains this way. And I like to test myself.

I wouldn't go from S&H straight to PUB because that's the strength to endurance lifting shock I was talking about. I would stick GS in between because GS has a multiple focus: it has varied rep speeds and the band work so that both strength (slower rep count, heavier weight, think bicep work) and endurance (all the band work, high rep count, short rep length) are targetted.

Hope this helps!

Clare
 
Hi Clare,

Thank you for taking the time once again to give me such a thoughtful, detailed response! Although I've worked with personal trainers at the gym in the past, this is my first time getting serious about weight training. I'm trying to read the forums as closely as possible so I can glean as much information as I can from the collective knowledge posted here, and I've also been analyzing the way that Cathe sets up her rotations, but I know I still have a lot to learn.

I'm still having a hard time distinguishing between endurance and strength workouts, so your post helps a lot. I've also noticed a little bit of what you mentioned: that it feels like I've lost some strength just from taking this short break from GS before starting SH.

Can I ask a few more questions?

If I start using SH now until the new series comes out, would it make sense for my body to move into the new series of heavy lifting when those are released?

Also, if I were to eventually move to a long rotation of SH for a few weeks, then GS for a few weeks, then PUB/PLB, where would I go after that?

I keep hearing others mention that it's good to shock your body, but I'm not sure what kinds of "shocks" are most effective. Right now, my goals are to become stronger and also build some definition, and I've had such wonderful progress with the GS that I thought the SH would be a nice progression.

Thanks SO very much for your help! I really appreciate it!

Leanne
 
"If I start using SH now until the new series comes out, would it make sense for my body to move into the new series of heavy lifting when those are released?"

I see no reason why not. The point is, we don't yet know which exercises Cathe will include, what subtle variations for working the same old muscle groups she will include to "tweak" things just a bit, nor what rep speeds and counts she will use. I doubt that the weight training in the new series will be an exact replica of S&H. What would be the point in that?

"Also, if I were to eventually move to a long rotation of SH for a few weeks, then GS for a few weeks, then PUB/PLB, where would I go after that?"

You could go back up the pyramid as it were in reverse order, from PLB/PUB back to GS, then back to S&H and then the new 4 day split weight work. But always bear in mind, to fitness training, there are no hard and fast rules. You can do what you want! After a while you get to know what your body type is, what your body responds favourably to and what it doesn't, and therefore which types of workouts are worth your while and which aren't. I am an ectomorph (long, lean muscles, hard gainer), and it is pretty pointless for me to do upper body endurance lifting because I just can't progress through the weights very far. So I only use workouts like MIS, PUB, MM, ME and CTX upper body when I have been out of fitness circulation for a while and am getting back on the wagon. To start with, these workouts will provide me with some strength gains, despite their high rep, fast counts. After a while though, I will stop seeing any gains in strength, and the only way for me to continue to grow is to slow down the rep speed so I can handle a heavier weight and force my body to grow muscle. Hence I use GS, S&H and will use the new 4 day split quite a lot I think. This is why in an earlier post I wrote "if you thing endurance weight training for the upper body has any value." For me, it doesn't much.

A lot of people also believe that strength work like S&H builds muscle whereas endurance type lifting improves definition. It is somewhat of a misnomer. I have never seen such definition as after a 6 week rotation with S&H. I have never looked better, aesthetically, as after S&H. So, since you list becoming stronger and gaining definition as two of your goals, the GS and S&H series will both help you.

"I keep hearing others mention that it's good to shock your body, but I'm not sure what kinds of "shocks" are most effective. Right now, my goals are to become stronger and also build some definition, and I've had such wonderful progress with the GS that I thought the SH would be a nice progression."
.
You are not wrong: the S&H will be a nice progression for you and it will also be a shock, of a good kind, because there's nothing else out there quite like it! Despite how many reps and how much you can lift say for chest on GS, when you slow down that rep speed to 8 counts, it really becomes pretty tough to do multiple sets because the muscles are friend after just 1 or 2 sets, and there's still so much more to do!! You will see. It's a different kind of training and if you stick with it, it will pay dividends. Another bonus to this type of training is that the slow count allows you to really zero in on your form and perfect it.

Shocking your body can be achieved in different ways. Probably all of them are good. They all follow the same basic principle: after a while of following the same type of training, your body becomes very efficient at performing that type of exercise and the fitness gains you see start to slow down, you burn less calories doing the same exercises, and you stop feeling like you are really challenging yourself. You may also start to become at risk of repetitive strain injury. So, all you have to do is swap to a different type of training, so that you challenge your body and muscles in different ways and encourage it/them to keep growing in strength and endurance. You might, for example, do steady state cardio routines for weeks, and then realize that while you can keep going for ever, you have lost some of your ability to do sprint work, so then you'll swap to doing lots of interval work to get your muscles to respond faster and be able to work hard under pressure. You could do this by doing Drill Max and the Imaxes a lot for 4 weeks, so you could increase your times in a 5K running race, for example. There are so many different ways to shock the body. basically, you just want to get out of your comfort zone, challenge yourself again, and continue to grow.

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

Clare
 
Clare, just a quick note to say I've really enjoyed reading your posts above. I'm an ectomorph too and its been useful to read your thoughts and experience on weight training with Cathe workouts. So thanks! :)
 
Hi Clare,

Thank you once again for another fabulous response! I really appreciate all of your input since I really want to make sure that I'm working my muscles in an effective manner. I'm going to print up a copy of your responses so I have it as I plan my future workouts.

Do you mind if I ask if you work in fitness? You're so knowledgeable!

Thank you again for all your help!

Leanne
 
I rarely do S&H series because I get bored during it! But I will pull the leg workout out once in awhile, as I did 2-days ago. That was a good choice, because I'm still feeling it! This one and GS are the only ones that make me sore. I highly recommend a barbell for this workout. Cathe uses a dumbell on plie squats, but holding something that heavy in front of me just makes me want to round my back and shoulders, so I use a barbell instead.

I got my current barbell on Amazon about 2 years ago, and I think with shipping (100 pounds) it was $30. A fabulous investment.

I think I'll be pulling the leg workout out a little more often. It is quite effective for me for very little time investment.
 

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