protein & rest/non weight days

MAYNARDSMOM

Cathlete
I know eating enough protein is important when weight training. I am 120 lbs & average bewteen 100 - 130 grams of protein/day. My question is on rest days & non-weight training days should I stll be getting as much protein? I reduce my calorie on rest days so it is hard to get that much protein in..
Thanks for any help!
 
Why is your protein goal that high?
(That is asked in a wanting-to-learn question voice, not a judgmental, critical voice).

I have been doing lots of reading on nutrition in general and specifically protein (at the library and commercial literature), and so far it appears that many people (in the US) eat too MUCH protein already, even without trying to get "more" for building muscle. There are medical downsides to too much protein, such as loss of calcium (which can be a factor leading to osteoporosis). And even for people that are into serious bodybuilding, at a professional level, their bodies can't use much more each day than a small increment above the "basic" amounts recommended by official nutrition sources. The only places I have encountered suggestions for the very high protein numbers are magazines,books, or websites that are directly or indirectly involved with protein supplements, either as advertising or part of their business.

I realize that I cannot have possibly read EVERYTHING on the subject, and maybe I have missed something. There are many people on fitness forums that are NOT part of a protein supplement business, but promote (or feel like they "should" get) lots more protein.

(The issue of the quality of the protein, and best sources, is a different discussion that I'll stay away from here!)

Anyway...does anyone know of any non-biased, research-based, medically-supported documentation of large protein increases for supporting weight training, and if so, can you share? Or if you do it based on some other source that you trust, what is that?
 
Snowbelle -


For me the protein is high for muscle building & recovery. For the life of me I cannot think of the number that you multiply by weight for how much protein you should eat a day. Surely someone out there knows. :rolleyes:
I can tell you last time I had bloodwork done there was one number that was high. If I remember right it had something to do with the kidneys but can't say for sure. My Dr was not concerned as it was not that high over the normal limit but she did say it was more than likely from high protien.
I do eat healthy protein not fatty icky stuff. (There's a technical term for ya;)).
Hoping someone with more wisdom will chime in here ??????:(
 
Various sources give different recommendations for protein consumption when building muscle, from 1 gm per kilo of body weight (that's 2.2 pounds) to 1 grm per pound of lean muscle mass (that's body weight - fat weight), to anything in between.

Increased protein needs for repair and building are usually naturally met because of increased food intake.

Unless you are eating a high junk food diet, or a diet relying a lot on fruit, it's hard NOT to get enough protein.

The time during which we need to grow and repair the most (when we are babies), we consume about 4-6% of our calories as protein (through mother's milk).

I wouldn't recommend more than 20-25% percent (maximum) of calories as protein for health and fitness.

Also, I have no idea where I read this, but I recall seeing something about our bodies not being able to process more than about 20 grams of protein at one time (which would vary according to the individual. Somebody like Arnold S. in his prime would be able to process more because of his huge size, a petit woman, possible less). So downing protein drinks with something like 40 grams of protein means most of it goes down the drain. (The push for high-protein for muscle building is very much supported by manufacturers of protein supplements, who iinfluence what is written in bodybuilding magazines.)

It's also important to get enough carbohydrates, because if one doesn't eat enough carbohydrates to satisfy the body's need for glycogen (what the brain works on), it must convert protein to glycogen, which is an inefficient process, and uses protein that would otherwise go to building an repair (the reason why low-carb diets are necessarily high-protein diets).

Just my take.
 
Thanks Kathryn!! I was hoping yu would respond to this. Someone told me you were knowledgable in several areas!!! :D So could you help me with the original question of non weight days & rest days?

Thanks!
 
Thanks Kathryn!! I was hoping yu would respond to this. Someone told me you were knowledgable in several areas!!! :D So could you help me with the original question of non weight days & rest days?

Thanks!

It's important to have enough carbs the day before intense workouts (so there are glycogen stores to work from).

As for protein, I'd go with more on the workout days, especially post workout, but after a higher carb feeding. (ie; within about 20 minutes--recommendations vary--have something easily digested that provides about 4-to-1 carbs to protein, which will help the body go from breakdwon mode--created through the weight work--to build-up mode--by replenishing glycogen--faster. Then within that about-2-hour window, have a higher protein meal (the muscles which now have the glycogen they need will put the protein to better use). At least that is my understanding from my readings.

When I did a P90X rotation, I used a chocolate soy milk drink with about the 4-to-1 carbs-to-protein breakdown after each of my weight workouts.

On non-workout days, just be sure to have a well-balanced diet. Nutrients like antioxidants from fruits (especially berries) and veggies can hellp with the repair process as well, as intense training can produce free radicals that they can help neutralize.
 
Various sources give different recommendations for protein consumption when building muscle, from 1 gm per kilo of body weight (that's 2.2 pounds) to 1 grm per pound of lean muscle mass (that's body weight - fat weight), to anything in between.

Increased protein needs for repair and building are usually naturally met because of increased food intake.

Unless you are eating a high junk food diet, or a diet relying a lot on fruit, it's hard NOT to get enough protein.

The time during which we need to grow and repair the most (when we are babies), we consume about 4-6% of our calories as protein (through mother's milk).

I wouldn't recommend more than 20-25% percent (maximum) of calories as protein for health and fitness.

Also, I have no idea where I read this, but I recall seeing something about our bodies not being able to process more than about 20 grams of protein at one time (which would vary according to the individual. Somebody like Arnold S. in his prime would be able to process more because of his huge size, a petit woman, possible less). So downing protein drinks with something like 40 grams of protein means most of it goes down the drain. (The push for high-protein for muscle building is very much supported by manufacturers of protein supplements, who iinfluence what is written in bodybuilding magazines.)

It's also important to get enough carbohydrates, because if one doesn't eat enough carbohydrates to satisfy the body's need for glycogen (what the brain works on), it must convert protein to glycogen, which is an inefficient procoess, and uses protein that would otherwise go to building an repair (the reason why low-carb diets are necessarily high-protein diets).

Just my take.

You're right. the body even arnolds can't processmore than 20 Grams at a sitting. and too much protein is hard on the kidneys. even the beefs break up into so many meals, to break up protein and keep blood sugar even.
 
One of these days I'm going to learn how to post links to articles and stuff but until then...

You should check out Shelby Starnes article "Cutting Edge Carb Cycling for Fat Loss" over at FigureAthlete.com. It's geared towards female figure competitors but the way he explains the concept of Random Approach Carb Cycling (a.k.a. Cyclical Irrespective of Training) has really helped me to understand how high, medium and low carb days, considered apart from what ever type of work out you're doing on a given day, each offers it's own benefit. While I'm no competitor and have no intention of following his eating specifications to the letter, I asked him if I would benefit from doing a sort of modified random carb cycling plan for fat loss and he said "absolutely." It's a very educational article if you aren't sure what you should eat on cardio or weight training days.
 
It's important to have enough carbs the day before intense workouts (so there are glycogen stores to work from).

As for protein, I'd go with more on the workout days, especially post workout, but after a higher carb feeding. (ie; within about 20 minutes--recommendations vary--have something easily digested that provides about 4-to-1 carbs to protein, which will help the body go from breakdwon mode--created through the weight work--to build-up mode--by replenishing glycogen--faster. Then within that about-2-hour window, have a higher protein meal (the muscles which now have the glycogen they need will put the protein to better use). At least that is my understanding from my readings.

When I did a P90X rotation, I used a chocolate soy milk drink with about the 4-to-1 carbs-to-protein breakdown after each of my weight workouts.

On non-workout days, just be sure to have a well-balanced diet. Nutrients like antioxidants from fruits (especially berries) and veggies can hellp with the repair process as well, as intense training can produce free radicals that they can help neutralize.


Hi Kathryn, I'm sure I read you were a vegan- what protein sources do you use besides tofu? How much protein do you eat in a day? Since you are doing CLX, are you following a modified version of the diet it comes with? TIA!
 
Hi Kathryn, I'm sure I read you were a vegan- what protein sources do you use besides tofu? How much protein do you eat in a day? Since you are doing CLX, are you following a modified version of the diet it comes with? TIA!
I eat tofu, but not that often. I prefer tempeh.
I usually have a rice/pea or rice/pea/hemp or rice-protein based smoothie for breakfast or a snack after working out.
I also eat beans and lentils and nut butters and dark greens.
The amount I eat varies: from around 50 grams to 80 grams, I'm guessing. The high end on weight-training days.

I'm not following the CLX diet at all (as I didn't follow the P90X diet), and intend to get rid of the recipe book, since there are only about 3 recipes that I could use, though I could adapt the others.
 
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Thank you, Shana. I really need to learn how to post links.

When you have a link you want to share, highlight the address from the address bar in your browser. Press Control and C together (that's the shortcut to copy). Then just paste it here in the message window (Press Control-V) when you're typing a message. The forum software will convert it to a link.

Like so:
http://cathefriedrich.blogspot.com/

Also, you can right click on your mouse to get the menu to copy/paste instead of using the Control- shortcuts.

April
 

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