Over 40 trying to get the muscle back
- Thread starter Ivy
- Start date
Who is Joni-O? If she has knowledge on this subject I would Love for her to chime in!!!!Ivy, you need to meet Joni-O!
I'm sorry, Joni-o is a V-Fer synonymous with, if you not liking the dvd your doing, toss it. I felt like maybe you should do something you really like, if that's lifting heavy, do it. There is no right or wrong, no fitness police. You should be okay with whatever you decide to do, you're okay right now, you're perfect.
DirtDiva
Cathlete
We are sticking to physical training right?
I've tried quite a few methods over the years, I'm still a great fan of Arnold and Rachel McLish. If you look at all the dvd sets one could buy, its mind boggling. I don't think any workout is wasted time, unless you are hating it. I do know for myself, I've always enjoyed having muscles, so I naturally gravitate towards heavier lifting. However, I still use my 3 and 5 pound dumbells, I use them for all sorts of things, core, rebounding, rehab, I even put them in my camelbak while riding for extra punishment. I'm thinking about all the modalities I've trained under, and there are very few I disliked. I could never like Barre, step workouts or Yoga, but dang I tried. Now Pilates, that is my current love and I'm very surprised over that. We should like what we evolve into, and sometimes there's a very good reason to, such as from injury or sickness, or schedule changes.
This could be a great second thread, indeed.
maddiesmum
Cathlete
Ivy:
the two years you spent on TA's method were not wasted. You may not have achieved the aesthetic you were looking for, but as far as health and longevity are concerned, you did good. All exercise and all movement count in your favour. Aesthetics matter, but are not everything.
Now you have knowledge and renewed desire, so you head off to try a new approach and put together a program that suits you. Trial and error to find not only what we like, what works and produces results we seek but also, what effort we are prepared to put forth to achieve fitness goals, is all we ever have and can do.
You did good. I wish you well on the next phase of your trial and error journey through fitness!
Clare
the two years you spent on TA's method were not wasted. You may not have achieved the aesthetic you were looking for, but as far as health and longevity are concerned, you did good. All exercise and all movement count in your favour. Aesthetics matter, but are not everything.
Now you have knowledge and renewed desire, so you head off to try a new approach and put together a program that suits you. Trial and error to find not only what we like, what works and produces results we seek but also, what effort we are prepared to put forth to achieve fitness goals, is all we ever have and can do.
You did good. I wish you well on the next phase of your trial and error journey through fitness!
Clare
ReneePruitt
Cathlete
I wonder how many days was lifting and how many was cardio or interval and HIIT a week? That would be nice to know to and plug in the work outs
ReneePruitt
Cathlete
I'm sorry this is so long, but its such a complicated issue and I have evolved over years.
What works for me:
I have closed my eyes to the FDA food chart. I will not touch any foods that are GMO or processed. That includes processed salt and changed out to sea salt or Himalaya salt, because its an important nutrient for your adrenal glands. I have embraced the good fats to support hormonal health, adrenals and brain. Gut health is paramount, because everything runs on gut health, which connects to the brain. Fermented foods, sauerkraut, probiotics, kefir, certain cheeses, yogurts, etc., will go a long way here. Think about adding in a comprehensive digestive enzyme especially if you fart a lot after eating beans or certain foods
Stop eating every two hours which has been popular for years. The minuscule caloric burn from digestion is not worth the body losing connection to what hunger feels like, or the real benefit of lowering blood sugar. (If one is diabetic, please disregard of course.) Cancer cells feed on sugar. If you are not going to have any more children, or not pregnant...look into intermittent fasting which is one of the best ways to detox and rid the body of excess sugar. Starvation is not the goal, neither is chronically lowering caloric consumption. I stay away from seed oils: canola, soy, sunflower, corn, which go rancid and oxidize far too quickly. A side note about soy, most of the cadmium accrued in women's bodies is from soy products because of the pesticides used on soy. Go organic when eating soy. Cadmium directly negates absorption of potassium, calcium, magnesium, vitamin D and is the cause of 1 out of 5 women acquiring osteoporosis by age 65. But your doc won't tell you that, except prescribe calcium supplements or worse a prescription. Excess calcium will lodge in your arteries, lungs and heart (like it happened to me).
Gaining and maintaining muscle:
Lift weights, and go heavier. If you want to change the way you look, lift heavy. Periodize by 5 percent at least every two weeks and be consistent to build muscle. Those last two reps should be a struggle. My favorites are STS, Gym Styles, Slow & Heavy, 4DS and XTrain. I also am really loving ICE for intermediate days. Nutrient timing afterwards is so important. I usually take a whey protein shake after lifting and sometimes before with even better results. I believe in split sessions (two upper body splits and one lower body) and then one full body easy high rep workout weekly. Rest is imperative, you build muscle when you sleep. You must have a passion, do something you love (for me its mountainbiking) and I lift for riding. Try very hard to cut out negative feeling and stress, about anything when you are working out, because that is your time and you owe it to yourself.
I limit my stretching and favor Chi Gong instead. No yoga for me. My favorite form of lengthening and creating core strength and muscle balance is Pilates on a reformer.
Cardio:
Subtract your age from 180 and stay within that range for cardio that lasts longer then 45 minutes. Chronic Cardio is not healthy and will boomerang back in the form of cortisol stress and adrenal fatigue (which is very serious) plus it is not good for the heart on a long term basis. Working out in an aerobic state will burn more fat, then anaerobic plus it will build endurance like never before. I can attest to this method (Dr. Phil Maffetone) as an endurance athlete with several 50 and 100 mile mountainbike races under my belt. I am not discounting hiit workouts, as they are imperative once or twice a week but for no longer then 40 minutes. My hiit workouts are never longer then 30 minutes.
For me, strength training and interval training reduces body fat, maybe not affecting total body weight, but I gain/maintain my lean muscle mass. At this point in my life, I resist counting calories, and rely on my burn calories from lifting, working out riding, etc. I wear a Polar V800 to keep track and to let me know my present state, because I will always over-train if I'm not careful.
Supplements are hard to talk about because every one needs different things at different times of life. Also depends on your training level and what your goals are. For me my staples are:
Powdered Vitamin C - Nutribiotic 1/2 teaspoon daily.
Glutamine - NOW 1/2 teaspoon daily
MSM - Jarrow 1/2 teaspoon daily
Whey Protein - Blue Bonnet (their scoop and recommendation)
Collagen - Great Lakes (their recommendation)
Multi Vitamin (organic from Mega Foods or Garden of Life)
Omega 3 - Calamarine (Dr. Sinatra)
Astaxathin for my eyes and brain
Vitamin D - NutriGold 5,000 (I'm in Minnesota and need it)
Vitamin k2 -must take this if you are supplementing Vitamin D, super important
I also cycle in other items that are essentially herbs or roots
The rest of my nutrients comes from food and I'm basically Paleo and very low to the ground.
I eat walnuts, macadamia nuts, pistachios and two Brazil nuts daily.
Three eggs daily
Ghee butter
Avocados
Red palm oil
Coconut butter
Olive Extract or oil
Grass fed beef, lamb, fish (wild caught)
Okay, if you have read this far... roll the eyes!
Carbs are in the form of veggies, sometimes I will have quinoa or steel cut oats (but becoming more and more rare).
One simply cannot out-train a lousy diet or lifestyle and I've learned over the years that muscle is intertwined with a solid base of nutrition, hormonal health and rest. There is no need to over eat on protein either, I keep it at .75 percent ration per pound body weight. (Read about m-tor but its sooo boring.)
One more thing...but it may not be easy depending on what your job is. If you can change from sitting mostly...to standing mostly, it will have a profound influence on your overall health. Peace out, thanks for reading. I'm 57 and resist being put into an age box. Rock on ladies!
Just wanted to say thank you! I didn't ask the question but wanted to ! Lol
I find this helpful and wonder do you have any particular rotations you find was better at weight loss? And I like your eating tips
aveggiegirl
Cathlete
Clare, you always give the best advice. You are very wise and I enjoy reading your responses.
nckfitheart2009
Cathlete
@DirtDiva Thanks for your long post. I enjoyed reading it. It sums up important elements we all need for a balanced nutrition.
Is there any reason you are not taking glutamine?
Redpalm oil: I do occasionally use it. Many people are against it here in europe and I believe because of lack of information.
it is being used by food industry now, that is the reason people are relunctant to use it. What do you like in palm oil?
What made you interested in palm oil?
As to paragraph above, I enjoyed reading it. I relate to highlighted above. I remember admiring Linda hamilton in Terminator
and other muscular female athletes such as griffith joyner. I too naturally gravitated towards lifting at home and in Gyms.
I love my quiet "me" time at home. I am looking forward to lifting even heavier when I reach your age.
As far as physical training is concerned, I am pretty much focused as to what I want without worrying about the aesthetic.
I am much into pursuing training protocoles specific to a fitness goal. That said I am pretty opened to trying various activity.
There isn't many modalities I dislike. I just hate purchasing workout I know I won't be visiting in futur.
I dislike anything which make women into a weakening, starving box--- < 1200 kcal. And I am utterly against the condescending
argument that women should stick to lifting less than 5 pound
I run away from any trainer solely advising so!And I run miles away any trainer producing dvd while lacking any knowledge in Anatomy and physiology.
I do not believe in one body type being ideal for all women and/or being the most beautiful!
I find glamourizing low BMI close to 17 pretty disturbing!! This is unhealthy and it should be addressed as it is despite Hollywood posts in magazines!
I also agree with you about not being put into a box! I wish to feel the same when I grow up!
Thanks again for sharing your shopping list
Sorry for the length of my postKind Regards
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No not just physical training, your previous post in it's entirety. I was just making the point that we all try many things, and it takes time to find the things that work for us. I come from a sports background, but for many years, my exercise came from my jobs, often times very physical, with a lot of lifting, & weekly housework, it all kept me in shape and I never had time for structured classes or money to burn on them. I naturally gravitate towards sports anyway, or conditioning that supports running, swimming, biking, etc.
The thing I like about dvds, is being able to have that variety. Cathe's rotations are & were always so filled with variety, but the level was often too advanced for me. I'm not ashamed of that. But my goal isn't to knock advanced or heavy weight workouts, they just aren't what I do. Someone too, maybe you mentioned form. In life though, you are confronted with lots of things that require functional movement where you just aren't going to have perfect form. Some workouts I do are a little less focused on form & weight. I like them just as well. After going back to basic functional movements, I can see how important they are, especially as we age.
I think you need a balance, in the type of exercise you do; heavy weight training is anaerobic, Hiit is anaerobic. I need to balance those with a large amount of aerobic, low impact steady state type workouts & recovery because that's what works the best for me. I can not underestimate the effect it has not only the cardiovascular system, but the nervous system as well. I don't think this thread started as a question, more of a statement, but it has produced many interesting responses & experiences.
You should enjoy what you're doing, or at least enjoy working towards a goal. It doesn't always work out as planned, you can have set backs, but you can be happy & learn a lot along the way.
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Would you please give an example from Cathe's workouts from your list above? Thank you.
Thank you for all your input. What pilate workouts do you do?
DirtDiva
Cathlete
Okay THAT is brilliant, this would be my description of evolving through life's gym.
DirtDiva
Cathlete
I don't have any Pilate DVD's and at least right now, not doing any mat work. What I have is an Allegro 2 Reformer and the manual from Balanced Body: "Reformer, A Detailed Guide For Practicing Pilates" and "Pilates Anatomy" by Rael Isacowitz. I realized after pulling a hamstring towards the end of last season, that I had major muscle imbalances from too much time riding. I needed to work the hip, hip flexors and hamstring glute areas. My posterior chain was not firing as well as I thought it was. I wonder if that is a result from giving kettlebells a rest last year. I also bought the Pilates Arc from Balanced Body for the core and put together workouts on my own. It's simply amazing that you think you know your own body's strength and are really strong, and find out, ummm not so fast grasshopper! I'm looking at this site right now thinking its worth it: http://ultimatepilatesworkouts.com/membership Plus they do rebounding, which I'm a big fan of.
DirtDiva
Cathlete
I like using different oils to gain a spectrum of benefits. The only Red Palm Oil I would buy is from Nutiva because they are fair trade and grow their product on small farms, so orangutan wildlife is not impacted. I think this is really important. Red Palm oil is very high in Vitamin A (beta carotene) and tocotrienols (vitamin e). This is one of those Paleo staples I've come to love, plus it is fantastic if you using high heat to saute. Doesn't oxidize in the pan.
I just wanted to say, I absolutely love this thread!! Thanks ladies for all your comments and you are right with regards to learning something along the way. If your fitness goal is health orientated then you really can't go wrong because your intentions are in the right place, so hopefully you gain knowledge along the way.
DirtDiva
Cathlete
Your first paragraph defines my early life! I agree completely with functional movements. I also believe we have to train on all three planes of our body. Here's a good article on this topic:
http://breakingmuscle.com/yoga/how-and-why-to-use-all-3-planes-of-motion-to-improve-your-mobility
I started early with field hockey, ice hockey, and volleyball. Back in the day it was wonderful because there was far less of this "paralysis by analysis" stuff when training. I remember fondly eating pizza from under the dorm bed and never missing my goals for the next day. Ahhh youth!
Then came the real world and a job and a gym membership and figuring out how to lift. The guys in the gym were always talking about free weight versus cable or static machinery, which was superior?? I found that machinery was optimal for safe heavy lifts, and free weights whittled my muscle and worked all my connections. There is a place for all weights. Kettlebells followed after that and then I got pregnant.
So here was the big kicker. I go from 135 pounds (5'9") muscular build, to 245 pounds. My doc was confounded that all my blood work came back in range, no diabetic situation, no tumors. Horrors though what I felt like. When I had the guts to get on the scale a few weeks after birth, I weighed 215. My husband bought me the original Nordic Trac skier (the wood one that was made right in the town where I live). I was on that before anyone was up in the morning, baby nap time and when everyone went to sleep. I lost all of it in 10 months, no stretch marks either because I feel it was done slow and steady. I was 32 years old. I got pregnant again at 35 and same thing happened, except I stopped at 195 because they took my daughter two weeks early. Back to aerobic, steady state hour long plus workouts and the fat came off. I also breast fed both times, so no dieting.
After my kids were in school and I had blocks of time, I started mountainbiking and racing, winter was cross-country skiing, sometimes during races my heart rate would top at 172 and I did start to experience episodes of tachycardia in my early 40's. I began training specifically in a certain zone and that was backed up by several trainers and one in particular (look up Phil Maffetone and his advice). At first it was hard to do, but eventually I could go great distances with a heart rate pumping at 130-135. This made all the difference in the world, because my pedal stroke and endurance was pushing me ahead without the disastrous high heart rate. These races usually last between 6 and 18 hours depending.
My current *evolving* venture is Pilates work on the Reformer and Chi Gung for my soul. I'm worried that my injuries are mounting up and what I'm feeling is scar tissue or fascia adhesions. I bought a 6 x 36 inch soft foam roller, not a hard one, from Balanced Body because I don't believe in beating the fascia up. I love hanging up side down too, and believe its very healthy for the lumbar spine and hips. I do this on an inversion table in my gym. Its how I start my day, hanging up side down and then jumping on the rebounder, then a little chi gung.
I find that as the years roll by, wisdom is priceless. I have become for more emphatic over people that cannot bend over to pick up a quarter, or are very out of shape, because you just don't know why. That could be me, and I'm not about to judge what part of their journey they are on.
It would be nice to read about other's journeys too.
maddiesmum
Cathlete
Wow, Dirtdiva good for you! I'm impressed that's some serious time on the bike too. I tended in the past to avoid Pilates, because I was getting caught up in routines that I wasn't ready for. Over time though I became open to other things. T.A. became my dynamic stretch (and more). I have what is apparently a nerve injury in my lower leg, I'm doing A.R.T. type exercises to recoup. I went back to mobility work with Scott Sonnon's Intuflow, godsend that is. I picked up Pilates with the ball - Lisa Hubbard which is just perfect. It's kind of like stretching but your not actually holding them static, in some ways it's like Intuflow where you go to the tension but not through it. It's working wonders in that way, symmetrically front back, side to side, top bottom. All of those including the T.A. I can do without real weight bearing or impact. Perfect for recovery. Thanks for the link, that site has so many interesting things.
Earlier this year I picked up Ballet Fitness for the same reason. I had looked at doing Kathryn Morgan's 12 week challenge but had to stay off my feet for a while. I'm no swan, but I really thought she put a plan out anyone could try. Funny I would have never said this years ago but Pilates & Ballet are real gems. With a hands on introduction to A.R.T. this year, I may get a few good lessons in anatomy/physiology as well. I'll be honest though, secretly all I want to do is Rhythmic Step and fly down the road (running) feeling fine!
Earlier this year I picked up Ballet Fitness for the same reason. I had looked at doing Kathryn Morgan's 12 week challenge but had to stay off my feet for a while. I'm no swan, but I really thought she put a plan out anyone could try. Funny I would have never said this years ago but Pilates & Ballet are real gems. With a hands on introduction to A.R.T. this year, I may get a few good lessons in anatomy/physiology as well. I'll be honest though, secretly all I want to do is Rhythmic Step and fly down the road (running) feeling fine!
DirtDiva
Cathlete
I don't do any of the Cathe monthly rotations, or anything formal except STS. That is always on, with one month off before I start up again. I've always lost fat and spared my muscle through diet first (Intermittent Fasting works fabulously for me). As discussed above, I've ditched the FDA food chart and counting calories, and pretty much am Paleo and eat healthy fats, plenty of sleep and longer aerobic sessions keeping my heart rate within range. Metabolic workouts, circuit workouts with weights I have always noticed also keep my martini weekend binges in check.
Yeah, we have to play right? But seriously, I think everyone is different because of age, hormones, etc. This is what is working for me right now.