OUT SOURCING...

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Cathlete
I will probably regret starting this thread as I know different people will have different opinions. I however feel the need to vent!

My 24 year old son was told today that his Job at Agilent Technologies will be outsourced to singapore in November. So basically he was just laid off is how they put it. He "gets" to stay until the first week of November. He of course started job searching immediatley. I hate that corporate America will pinch every penny and lay off Americans to another country. I could rant about unemployment etc but I won't. I think this is becoming more and more the way Corporate America deal with finacial issues and I think it sucks! Oh and it's not just him it is the whole Dept. he worked in!

Terri
 
What sort of job does your son have? I don't really have any strong opinions one way or the other just curious about what sort of job is getting sent to Singapore.
 
I wanted to add that I'm sorry to hear about what seems like his misfortune. Hopefully, better things will come his way soon!!!
 
I don't have any strong feelings about this either. I believe it's a case where corporations are in business to make money and if they can outsource a job cheaper, they're going to do it. The company I work for has outsourced quite a few things...computer administration being one of them. I really don't think politics is a driver but maybe I'm wrong.

Hopefully his qualifications will allow him to find a job quickly.
 
Something similar happened at my husband's job, a bank. Unfortunately companies have to do this because once one does it, it lowers their business costs and then they are cheaper than their competitors...so the others have to jump on the bandwagon, or they go out of business.

What happened at his job though was this: the quality from India was not as good, the big promises that were made by the outsourcer did not come through, the code was not very good, so they (the company) are not going to town on it anymore. Plus, the costs are rising overseas, it is not the dirt cheap high tech labor market it once was.

Laws of economics will always apply, like gravity. It is frustrating but the key to survival is to adapt. It is an international marketplace now....

Jen
 
I agree, Terri, it totally sucks, but unfortunately that's the wave of corporate America these days. They are more concerned about the bottom line than their employees. Gone is the loyalty - both for the company and for the employees. It can happen to any position but computer specialists are unfortunately the most often hit by outsourcing.

I think Jen may be right, the cons may soon outweigh the pros as far as quality, costs, and training efficiencies.

I hope your son finds something soon, Terri. Unemployment is not so fun. x(


Angie
 
Thanks Ladies for your support. I guess another reason this hit me so hard is that my son has a gf who is sick so he has a ton on his plate as it was. Angie you are so right about the loyalty thing. He feels like he busted his ass and this is what they gave him in return!

Terri
 
It's cold but to most businesses, employees are a tool and nothing more. It's sad but true.
 
Hi, its not politics, its all about cost. Its so much cheaper to outsource a project in another country, that many companies are now moving in this direction.Buisness is all about making money which includes cutting costs and outsourcing is a major way to cut costs. The negatives are losing some control and monitoring of the project you have outsourced. The huge negative is the ultimate effect it will have on our economy as more and more people are displaced. I know several individuals who have recently lost jobs because of out-of-country outsourcing.
 
I read an article in Time or Newsweek that indicated CEOs who outsource functions get HUGE bonuses and such from the board of directors. So there is also an unfortunate personal incentive for CEOs to "cut costs" by sending jobs overseas or to some company willing to do them (often shoddily, I might add) for a low price. Right now everything is about the numbers.

I'm sorry for your son, but at least he is in a good field where he is likely to find work quickly.

Marie
 
In my job, there's outsourcing, which means sending the work outside of the company to be done by another company that costs less. Then there's offshoring, which is sending the jobs to another country where the labor is ready, willing and able, plus get paid based on the local going wage, which is less than here in the US.

Here's how I look at offshoring: give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. If we send jobs overseas, we are doing a service to both our own economy, as well as the global economy. For us, it lowers overhead costs here in the U.S., which leads to higher profits, which helps the stock market, which helps investors (us) and the value of the US dollar. For the other countries, by sending jobs - instead of aid dollars - we are giving them employment, which means immediate gains by way of income, but it also helps to raise the experience and education levels in that country, which will help them in the long run by giving them a more competitive talent pool for their own domestic economy.

My company has outsourced and offshored - and many employees have come and gone (we've reorganized 4 times in five years). I don't like to see people lose their jobs - I actually had to re-apply for my own through an internal interview process, so I was close to 'the axe' - but we are fortunate in this country that there are other jobs available. In other countries, the standard of living, and the definition of 'poverty' are very different and they often don't have any other jobs. In talking to some of our off-shore co-workers, I can really hear the excitement they have about their jobs.

I guess it may be similar to the industrialization age where people were losing their jobs to machines - it's a very difficult time of change, but is part of the continual growth of our country and economy.
 
Higher profits for companies doesn't help the economy when consumer spending goes down which occurs as unemployment goes up and salaries go down. The net effect will be money for a few and a net drain on the economy overall.
 
Hmm, well, not to be too argumentative, but I don't agree that offshoring has any positive impact on our economy (just look at the textile industry) and outsourcing generally doesn't, either, since it's mostly the same work for less pay, and as someone said, that equals less consumer spending.

Marie
 
Unfortunately, this is happening heavily in the IT Sector of this country, which use to be a "safe haven" for us techs...

More and more HB1 Visa persons, i.e. India, Pakistan are coming over here in droves for these tech positions, and coming at a very REDUCED RATE.

Also, what can we expect when Micosoft, Sun, Oracle, etc. provide FREE TRAINING, and pays for all the certifications which many come over here with.

I am in the IT world and my job is pretty secure. But compare to 5-10 years ago, the pay is highly competitive and the work load is heavier, no doubt. Yes, bogged down with cell, pager, laptop, tools to make your job easier, but it makes you bring your JOB HOME WITH YOU.

Ahh, and lastly, sorry to about your son's layoff. Companies do not invest in employees any longer, only the quarterly report for the share holders....}(

This is a wake up call for individuals KNOW who they are voting from President, down to the local dog catcher. If their interests are too tied to "SPECIAL INTEREST" then it is time to vote for someone who is interested in YOU.

Remember, we get what we VOTE for....

Linda
"We may encounter many defeats but we must not be defeated."
Maya Angelou
 
I've skimmed the responses, but I didn't read them all in detail. So I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this:

I am going to be the dissenting minority. I used to work for a HUGE company that had outsourced to America from France. See, I was one of those people who had a job where the parent company was overseas and outsourced to America, and I was exposed to this topic countless times directly while I worked for that company. So, I know a thing or two about the economic truth behind outsourcing.

The media has put such a big spin on this topic (and I saw this "media spin" over and over while I worked at that France-owned company, because we were in the press a lot) that everyone has failed to see one very big truth: America has more jobs outsourced TO here from other countries than we outsource FROM here to others. In other words, America is getting more work from other countries than we are sending to other countries. I can't remember the exact number of jobs we're talking about here, but I do remember that it was a pretty significant differece. But, knowing the truth about outsourcing isn't "in vogue" right now. The media would much rather paint this "be loyal to American companies" picture, and cause a big political uproar over outsourcing, than tell you the truth that America is the biggest benefactor of outsourced jobs than any country in the world.

So, before you all get up in arms about stopping outsourcing, think about all the American jobs that would be lost if NO ONE outsourced outside their own country. Because, let's face it, if we stop outsourcing to other countries, they will stop outsourcing to us. Millions of people all around the world would lose their jobs and be displaced. Unemployment would skyrocket, especially in America, because since America is the largest benefactor of outsourcing from other countries, more Americans than any other nationality would lose their jobs. Our economy DEPENDS on outsourcing - both TO and FROM other countries. If outsourcing is stopped, we would see a worldwide economic crash of proportions unseen since the Great Depression. In fact, resistance to outsourcing was considered a major contributor to the Great Depression. Read your history, and check out some economic texts on the subject if you don't believe me. This subject gets about a page-and-a-half (if that) of attention in college textbooks, so don't be surprised if you have a hard time finding anything on it. This is a point many politicians and media hounds would prefer you not know about - it makes it easier for them to rile you up about outsourcing if you don't know the truth and the history.

Oh, and you won't have to worry about outsourcing to China for too many more years. Their economy is in the middle of an amazing boom, and significant wage increases won't be far behind.

Don't believe everything you hear in the popular media. Blaming outsourcing for this country's woes is "popular" right now. It's easy to blame someone else and point fingers when we (or someone we know) gets laid off, but that doesn't do anybody any good. Outsourcing is a reality, and any one of us could lose our jobs tomorrow due to it. But, that's when you pick up the pieces and find something better. I've been laid off three times, and each time I found a better job. Those lay-offs were blessings in disguise.

For those who still can't see the silver lining of outsourcing, we have only to look internally at own country to see where it is failing. Blaming others isn't going to solve the problems we have with keeping jobs in this country. Outsourcing has nothing to do with it, and this country needs to start realizing that and take responsibility for its problems. The truth is much deeper than this superficial "outsourcing" excuse.

Thanks for your time.
 
GraceNote:

You are right on the money (literally - ha ha)! I guess I should have read in more detail before making my post, but I think my post complemented yours very well and vice versa.

There is SO MUCH MORE to this outsourcing topic than they preach in the popular media and in politics. They are telling the public what the public "wants" to hear. Unfortunately, what we "want" to hear isn't what we "need" to hear. I would rather hear the truth than have smoke blown up my arse...how 'bout you? I actually get offended when someone assumes I'm an idiot and thus tells me a bunch of lies like I don't know any better. I would think more people would feel the same way.
 
I'm sorry about the young man losing his job, but he is young and I'm sure he'll be working again very soon, and in something at least as promising as his old job.

Gracenote and Catwoman, I appreciate both your posts and agree with you. We have a Canon plant in our town. And all over the place are cars made right here in the USA that once were made overseas:).

Another thing people don't seem to want to address is what happens to all those products that are now being made overseas and are no longer American-made. How many of us buy clothes made overseas? After all they're often made just as well as (and often better than) they are here anymore? How many of us own appliances made overseas? BTW, most of these products are cheaper than they'd be if made here. And yes, I buy a lot of stuff that's "foreign made".
 
Lydia:

You've (indirectly) brought up a good point.

Think about it this way: Where would you like to make a product? Where it will be purchased, or where you will have to pay exorbitant shipping costs to get it to where it will be purchases?

Here's the story about the company I used to work for: It was in the TV and Home Entertainment industry. Now, picture tube TV's aren't as popular in America as they once were. People are into plasma and flat-screens in America now. Guess where the picture tube TV is most popular right now? China. That's right. China. Like I said earlier, China is in the middle of a huge economic boom right now, and many households in China don't own a TV. With people earning more money in China, they want to start buying TV's, but they can't afford the hundreds and thousands of dollars that Americans are willing to pay for those overglorified plasma and flat screen TV's. The Chinese can only afford picture tube TV's. So, where does it make more sense for the company to manufacture those picture tube TV's? Does it make good financial sense to continue making them in America, only to pay export taxes and incredible shipping costs to get them to China where they will be sold? Or does it make more sense to close the American manufacturing operation and relocate it to China, where the company can make bigger profits by making the product right where it is sold?

If I owned a company, this would be an easy economic decision to make. Would I enjoy putting a small percentage of my American workers out of a job? No. But it sure beats having to close my doors entirely, thus putting EVERYONE that works for me out a job...and, if I continued to make my TV's in America and ship them to China, that is what would eventually happen. Because I would make absolutely no profits on those TV's. The Chinese wouldn't buy those TV's because for me to make a profit, I'd have to sell them for a much higher price than Chinese-manufactured TV's, just to get back my shipping costs and export taxes. The Chinese could buy a Chinese-made TV far cheaper than they could buy an American-made TV. Plus, the quality of a Chinese-made TV is better than an American-made. I just knew that from being exposed to the industry data from where I worked.

Of course, when it comes to call center and technology jobs, this isn't the case, but for manufacturing jobs, you have to produce your product where it is sold. That is why so many overseas companies outsource to America, because America is where the biggest markets are. If you quit buying their products, you put Americans out of work. Period.

And as far as call centers go, it's becoming clear that overseas cultures do not understand how our culture works, and we're starting to see companies like Dell pull out of outsourcing their tech service because of that.

Knowledge is power. Don't worry, we'll get through this, as long as we open our eyes to what is really happening.
 
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