OT: my dog bites (long)

D

Dutchie42

Cathlete
I got a dog from an animal shelter last June. His previous owner put him there because his daughter supposedly was allergic to the dog.

He's been really good for two months then he started acting up. He bit the trainer twice in obedience class in October, bit a neighbour (the guy was so upset he threatened me), and he's been trying to bite people who are walking by when I am walking him. We use a gentle leader on him to keep control as much as possible, so he can't do much but we have to constantly keep an eye on him. He doesn't even snarls or barks before he bites, he just lashes out and tries to bite.

Anyways, my kids and I always have a bit of rough play after dinner. It's their "macho time". They always want to see if they can win from their mum ;-)) Yesterday son #2 and I were at it again and the dog suddenly tried to bite us. First my son and when I was trying to get control of the dog, he tried to bite me. I did get control of him though.

The vet referred me to a dogtrainer a few weeks ago. So we went to obience classes for the second time, but it only seemed to make him respond more aggressively to others. The dogtrainer hasn't been returning my calls after the obience classes enden (she probably doesn't know what to do about this dog either). I have been talking to other dog owners who simply say to take him back to the animal shelter; they think he was probably abused by his previous owner. Taking the dog back is not an option at this point, but we don't want him to bite anyone else or us for that matter. It's come to the point where I really don't feel comfortable walking the dog myself or let my 12 yo walk the dog (it's his dog).

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Dutchie
 
I know you will not like my answer but I would have the dog put down. I too adopted a dog and after a month it started to get more aggressive until it finally bit my daughter in the face. After 10 stitches there was no debate in my mind, the dog was a menace and had to go. You seem to have given this animal a lot of chances and it dosen't seem to be responding to your loving care. I grew up with animals, always had pets dogs or cats as a child. But when I had children of my own the line between pets and humans became quite clear. I would never risk the another person for the sack of an animal. You say you are not even comfortable with the dog yourself and are probably even afraid to have your children play with the animal. I for one would not have the animal in my home. Know I have probably opened up a can of worms but it is what I truly believe.
 
Im afraid Im going to say "you can't possibly keep the dog" as well.

And is this dog muzzled (spelling?) because if its not when its out and about in public, you are just asking for trouble!

Its sad, and its unfortunate, but this dog may be beyond any help in desipline and the kindest thing may be to have it put to sleep BEFORE anyone is seriously hurt.

Can I just please add that I am a ANIMAL LOVER so I do not say this lightly.

Marion
 
I know you're right... sigh... I know I can't take a chance on him biting someone again... especially since I live in a neighbourhood with many small children... Which is why we use the gentle leader now. Lately, we also put him out in the garden when we have people over.

But I feel so bad about taking him back to the animal shelter. It's not the dog's fault he turned out like this. Something must have happened to him when he was a pup. Dog's aren't born like this, are they?

I know what a dog bite can do since a cousin was bit in the face by their own dog when he was a small child. The scarring is still very visible now that he's all grown up.

Dutchie
 
Hi Dutchie,

What a dilemma! I have absolutely no expertise in this area, but here’s my two cents…

1. Take him to the vet. Make sure there is no medical problem that is causing the sudden aggression.

2. Call the shelter. Ask them if there’s a history of abuse you weren’t informed about. They might even offer free obedience or training classes. Bigger shelters usually have people that specialize in diagnosing and treating behavioral problems.

3. Could you decrease the walks until you get this straightened out? Is your yard big enough for him to run around in?

4. Like I mentioned above, I’m pretty sure there are people who specialize in diagnosing and treating behavioral problems aside from basic obedience trainers. Maybe you could ask your vet for a recommendation or search online for people in your area.

Best of luck!
 
How old is he and what type of dog is he? It could be medical if he was fine for 2 months and then this behavior began. I have seen both dogs and cats turn aggressive and then found to have a brain lesions. I know people who have aggresive dogs and they muzzle them for walks however since he is being aggresive toward the family you may not have a choice :( . I would call the shelter and see if they have any background on him. Bless your heart and his, if you decide to euthanize please take him to your vet, giving him back to shelter will be stressful on both you and him. I'm sorry, this is not easy I'm sure.............:(
 
Rover is now 21 months old. I got him when he was 13 months old. He's a labradorXborder collie.

When he first acted up I was told by the vet it was dog adolescence and once he'd be all mature (when he would be about 2yo) he would be calmer and easier to handle.

The shelter doesn't have any other info except what the previous owner told them about the allergy of the daughter. I have noticed from the beginning, that he has an absolute dislike to men! Even to some friends of my sons who already have very deep voices....

He is a very sweet dog in every other aspect... he's looking at me now with those big brown eyes... You have no idea how bad I've been feeling for the past couple of days. I know I can't let this go on.

Dutchie
 
First, I have to clarify that I love dogs. Second, I would get rid of him. He's a liability. You're really lucky that your neighbor didn't make a big stink. If he had been seriously hurt (or worse, one of his children), you could lose your house. What if the dog hurts one of your children?

Take him back to the shelter. He'll most likely be put down, but he's not going to be a good dog.
 
Oh My you have your hands full .... I Too am a dog Lover .I have had agressive dogs .I have one now an Akita ,I also have a gentle Giant a Saint Barnard .... Any how My Akitas have NEVER been agressive towards people .... I'm sorry to say But You MUST get rid of the dog .. Chances are that was the real problem from the previous owners . If you take dog to pound You MUST tell them hes a nipper ..This dog leaves you NO CHOICE !!!! Get your child a PUPPY !!! Most Pound Dogs are there for a reason !!!!!!You will not forgive yourself if a little kids face is ruined .... I was biten at age 2 It was awful for my parents and thier friend that owned the dog ... He bit my Face Tore my ear off !!! (They fixed it though ). I know you would like to FIX the problem !!! Its tooooooo late The dog has crossed the line when he went for a human !!!! NO GOING BACK !! You already did your GOOD dead by adopting the dog ,but he ruined it !!!!! Good luck .... I say ALWAYS start with a puppy ,then it will be how you want it to be ... Good luck and please return the dog ..
 
I work with dogs daily and have studied dog behaviour and I'm sorry if I go on and on but dogs are dear to my heart and I want to help where I can so fewer of them end up in shelters.

In the dog world they view you as their pack. He obviously is getting the impression that he's the dominant dog in the pack. Some dogs do not have to be abused to behave this way - in fact I tend to think it's natural instinct for them to need to know where they fit in the pack and if top position is open they'll take it. Some breeds are worse than others. I am looking after a dog right now that was very aggressive when we got her and we've been able to work with her to where she is a wonderful pet - but we can't let her have an inch or she thinks she's in charge. MOST dogs can be trained with the proper handling - some aren't worth the risk though and you need to decide how much time and energy you can put into training. Actually I shouldn't say it takes alot of time and energy - it takes diligence and consistency and chances are he'll learn fast. I can tell from what you've written that you'd rather try than just send her back to the shelter.

I've had to deal with some very aggressive dogs and I have a few questions I ask people who are having this kind of trouble with their dogs. These ?'s help me decide whether the dog is trainable or a huge risk. Here are my diagnostic questions:


- Where does the dog sleep?
- Where and when does he eat?
- Do you groom him?
- Does he ever growl at you over toys, his bed, his food etc.?
- How did he respond when you give him a command? (Quick response as long as you have food; ignores you; listens well; fast learner etc.)
- What breed is the dog?
- How old are your children?

We had to be very tough on our present dog boarder but having done this she responded beautifully within two days and we no longer have a problem with her snapping at us. She is a wonderful dog and she seems to be happier knowing clearly where she fits.

You can send me an email at [email protected] if you'd prefer not to discuss this on the open forum.

Trish
 
This may not help you at all but I have a semi aggressive dog. We've had him since he was 8 weeks old. When we first got him we took him everywhere with us and he was rarely left alone since we lived in an apt. w/ roommates and another dog. Once we moved (other dog went with our roommate) we relized that our dog had seperation anxiety - still has it, he's now 9 yrs old.

Anyway, he's VERY protective of us. He barks and lunges at people when we walk but I can usually keep him from doing it if I see someone coming and I tell him ahead of time "be a good boy, be a good boy", if he starts to bark and pull at the leash I sternly say "NO!". I know your dog may be beyond this point but my dog has gotten somewhat better just by doing this.

I would call around to different trainers and see if there are any that specialize or will work with aggressive dogs. I'd hate to see him put down before all options were exhausted - he is a member of your family although I know safety is your first concern.

Also, dogs are pack animals, if they see their "pack" fighting (even though you're just playing) they may take that as a sign of aggression and want to protect you or your son. I'd stop doing that in front of the dog. Our dog gets very upset when we pretend fight and he even nipped me one time.
 
Dutchie:

Border Collies are actually very smart and fairly aggressive dogs because they are bred to "herd" the sheep (at least I think it's sheep). We had one way back when I was married, and she was really sweet but I didn't trust her at all around the kids because she was always nipping someone to keep them in line. Eventually my bachelor brother took her... he probably NEEDED to be kept in line. She eventually passed on to someone way in the country with a lot of room and no small children.

;-)

This is a really tough decision and I am sorry you are going through this. We also had another dog that I had to take to the shelter when I realized I could absolutely do nothing to control him. He was large and constantly breaking out of the house, the yard (seriously, one time he was running up and down the street with an entire section of decking attached!). He started snapping at everyone and I just couldn't deal with it. To this day I feel soooooo guilty about this, but sometimes you have to make those choices.

I hope it works out for you.

Marie
 
Good point on the pretend fighting... Rover does get restless when we do that. Even when my kids are screaming at eachother he gets very agitated: walking up and down and doesn't settle again untill all the loud screaming/yelling or laughter has stopped.

Dutchie
 
I love dogs and have 3 now. I'm not sure what I would do in your situation, but it may not be a good family dog for you. Dogs like that are big liablities and if I still had young children I'd have to think hard about it. Anyways, I have to agree with an earlier poster about being the alpha of your pack. We joke all the time about how I am the alpha of the dogs at my house. I've had dobermans for years and the one I have now would be a biter if I hadn't established myself as the alpha. Even still, I do not trust her and am very proactive during situations that I feel she could snap. I also have two australian sheppards. They are herders just like the border collies. She nipped my son several years ago. She only did it once because I caught her in the act. Whenever I see any behavior that is unacceptable I grab the dog by the scruff of the neck and hoist the front feet off of the ground with a stern word. I had to do that just recently with the dobe because she is exerting her dominance over the older shepard and I will not allow that in my house. Try thinking like a pack animal. The alpha controls everyone. But be realistic, do you want the liability of a potentially aggressive dog?

Tracy
 
Hi Dutchie -

This is such a hard situation. My mom had to go through this a few years ago - although the situation was really not the dogs fault. We were at a family gathering - I had made a big prime rib - and after the meal - my brother and sister took some scraps out to my moms dogs that were tied up in the back. My 3 year old nephew and my son decided to go with them. As the dogs were eating my nephew reached down at the food - the dog was thinking he was going to take it and he snapped at my nephew and got his cheek.

Of course the dog didnt meant to really hurt my nephew -but he ended up with 3 puncture wounds and several stiches. My sister-in-law totally blamed the dog and to keep family peace my mom put her best friend down. It was incredibly hard on the family. And to ths day - 8 years later - he still has visible scars in his cheek. It is still an issue in my family that my SIL will not forgive my mom for...

If it would not have been family - both my mom and I could have been sued and lost everything - it is such a gamble that you are taking by having the dog around other people - even your own kids. And not fair to the dog either if you have to go to muzzuling him in public - I would have to agree with the others that you really should take him back.

What an incredibly tough thing to have to consider!!
 
This is such a hard one. It sounds like you have given this dog every opportunity to be a well behaved dog. I doubt he will ever be trustworthy to you. I have to agree with some of the others and I would have this dog but down. I wouldn't take it back to the pound. I'd take him to a vet and be there when it happens, that way you know it was done humanely. It will be alot easier to live with this than to live with knowing your dog has scared some young child or adult. Both my brother and sister have had dogs that bit one of their kids friends. One got a few stitches on the face and the other dog really did some damage and the child had to have major skin graphs done 3 times on her face (cost him a bundle). Both these dogs were good dogs but showed some protective behavior. Both dogs did this while the parents were right there and it happened to fast to stop before it was to late. Your dog is young and you will have about 12 years of worrying about him. There are tons of other dogs at the pound or humane society or rescue, that need someone caring like you, that are not aggessive.
 
:( My heart bleeds for you. I have two dogs and not long ago, one of them showed aggression to my neighbor and nipped her. He had always been very protective of my family and especially me and we never mixed him with anyone except our immediate family. When guests come to our home, our dogs are gated into a back room but since we got him, we took it one step further and just closed the door. My neighbor had no business walking into the gated yard after several requests that she NOT do so, but still...he should never had bitten. I was sick for months afterwards and felt awful. It still makes me sick to my stomach when I think of it.

Personally, I refused to consider putting him down or giving him away a an option. Not at that point, at least. He is part of our family. I don't think that this needs to be your next move and I think that there are certainly other options. You've gotten some wonderful advice here and suggestions and I think that coupling these w/the help of a trainer can be your next step (if you so choose).

I got on the internet and started calling every place that I could find to get someone that could deal with this problem. I spoke to several people and then chose one that I took him to and worked with for a bit. He worked with the dog and we are confident that this will not happen again. Interview these peole, ask about their past experiences, get recommendations from peopel you trust., etc. Now, rememebr that they will work with him adn exhaust every remedy before the worst options and that they will give you an honest opinion as to that worst option. No reputable trainer will hide that option if it is the one that is recommended.

Always remember that your dog is an animal. I know that sounds silly, but it is something that we sometimes forget. My boyfriend lvoes to get on teh gournd and go bananas with the dogs and it sounds like a lion's den when he does it. I freak out but he in convinced that they will never bite him, even by mistake. Esp. where your dog is showing agrression, this is not a good play time activity. When you have this time with your kids, just put him out of the room for a while. You may find that for certain activities, he needs to be put out of the room, at least for now. Don't be afraid to do that for the better gain in the end.

All that being said, I know how crappy you feel right now. Every time I looked at my dog (or even his pciture when I was at work), I just welled up at the thought that he went out of bounds and that we had bad issues to deal with. Try to stay positive and take action and work to resolve the issue. And good luck :)

Christine
 
First off, the dog should NOT be outside on walks right now. I'd also make sure the kids are not interacting with the dog. What town are you in? I might be able to locate a positive trainer for you. Or you can go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/agbeh/ and search the files for a trainer near you.

How bad is the dog biting? Is he giving any warning?

It may or may not be a situation that is fixable. But it sounds like you want to give it a try. It will not be easy and the first thing you need to do is get that dog out of the public. That is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Rough-housing in front of a dog that bites is not great decision. He may have been protecting; it may have wound him up; it may have been prey drive, etc.

You probably aren't in my area, Sacramento, CA, but if you are I'd be willing to work with you or find someone to work with you. I've trained dogs (only my own) for over 10 years and have some great resources.

Good luck. Also try a Nothing in life is free program: http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm For now, protect the dog from "hurting himself" by not giving him access to bite someone. Be very careful around him. Treat him like a dog and respect his boundaries. Do not let him up on furniture, beds, etc. Do not give him kisses, etc. Make him sit before he gets attention, etc.

Colleen
 
Shame on the shelter for placing a dog like that, but then you did say the previous owner gave a different story, so shame on them!

My husband worked as an animal control officer for 6 years, and they worked very closely with our humane society. Our area was unique in that there is a strict 'no kill' policy. The only exception is a known biting/agressive dog. These dogs have very little chance of changing. Fortunately that means we have one of the lowest euthanasia rates in the country. Also, despite added expense, they have the kindest method possible.

One more thing. My sister was bit in the face as a child by a neighbors dog. She had to endure numerous corrective surgeries over several years in order to soften the damage, but she still has scars.

I am a firm beliver that when you have two difficult choices, you 'chose your regrets'. Meaning what regret would you rather live with? Would you rather live with the sadness of losing this dog (which is now a family member, I'm sure) or would you rather live with the knowledge of scarring someone for life, potentially, when you could have done something different. I would be devastated if my dogs ever injured anyone, most especially a beautiful child like my sister.

Hang in there, no judgements on your descision, this is a tough one.
 
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