One more reason to go organic

>I too thought about how animals have been eaten by Native
>Americans as a means to justify my own eating of meat. After
>awhile, that excuse stopped making sense to me. I wasn't going
>out hunting on my own where the animal has a chance. I was
>eating an animal that was raised to be slaughtered, and done
>so in a heartless, methodical, and cruel way.

As someone one said: "Man is not a rational animal, man is a rationalizing animal"! It took me a while after going vegan in diet to give up leather and wool. I rationalized still using them. Then one day, I just couldn't. So I gave my hand-made (by me) wool sweaters to my stepmother, donated my usable leather goods to Goodwill, and wore the few pairs of leather shoes I had left down to the soles! and never bought anymore.

I think the "X population had to eat meat to survive" was valid at a time when it was a necessity, or in situations where food is generally scarce. But in today's society, when we can easily acquire healthy plant-based proteins (soy products, seitan, etc.), the "survival" argument doesn't make sense.

If I were stranded on a deserted island, and the only food source was fish, would I eat it? Eventually. But I'm not in that situation (and wouldn't put myself in it for the sake of a game ;-) ).

To me, the fact that "food animals" are cruely raised is one point. But the fact that animals are even considered "food animals" rather than living beings, and their sole existence is to provide food, clothing, etc., for people, is almost barbaric. It certainly seems out-dated to me.

We need to recognize the link in all of nature, and not treat animals as mere "products" or sources of plesure for humans as food/entertainment/clothing.

Luckily, we are able to do that on an individual basis, and it's something that, by our day-to-day, minute-to-minute choices, we can reinforce constantly.

Unfortunately, while it's easy to criticise the practices of our ancestors, or of previous generations, it's very hard to distance ourselves from our engrained patterns of behavior, and paradigms (like seeing animals as food sources) that have existed since time immemorial, and to give up acquired tastes.

As a child I "loved animals," but I thought nothing of the link between a rabbit's foot charm I had and an actual rabbit!

As I've been out of the meat-eating game for quite a while, I don't even consider animals as food. They are living creatures. A dead animal is a cadavre, just as a dead person would be. Why in the world would I want to eat that?
 
Soon we will find out how bad soy is and that it causes
>cancer.

I doubt it, since populations that have used soy foods (not the burgers and things made from isolated or concentrated soy protein) for CENTURIES have lower cancer rates than the US (until they start eating a diet like the SAD (standard American diet).
 
Right on Kathryn!!! I can't tell you how great it feels to hear from another compassionate person!! Sometimes I feel very alone in my beliefs about veganism and animal rights so it definitely feels good to have someone who backs you up.

People can be cruel and defensive towards vegans but I think they miss the point. I don't choose to be vegan to make my life harder, stand out as a weirdo amongst people, or to be referred to as "people like that". I do it because after knowing what I know about what eating animal products means, I cannot go back to not knowing. I cannot have a flippant and indifferent attitude towards living things that have a desire and a right to live their lives just as I do. I cannot live my life wondering what the world can do for me or what the world can offer me to make my life easier. I go through life wondering how I can better the world around me. Just that simple.:)

carolyn
 
so if i eat nonorganic I am flippant and don't care? I don't think that's quite the ticket. I am happy for you if that's what makes you tick, but it sounds kind of like bashing your way, too.



"you miss 100% of the shots you never take"

Debbie
 
>so if i eat nonorganic I am flippant and don't care? I don't
>think that's quite the ticket. I am happy for you if that's
>what makes you tick, but it sounds kind of like bashing your
>way, too.
>
>
>
I agree Debbie. I find it hard to believe that those of us who drink milk and eat meat are not compassionate. Seems to me that is painting a pretty broad brush stroke. I have a problem with people who take a high-and-mighty stance because they believe that their way is morally superior. Please, carry on and do what you do - be it veganism or cadaverism or whatever. It would be nice if everyone could agree to disagree without throwing insults.
 
Going back to the original purpose of this thread *ahem*, I am becoming more and more convinced not to eat anything less than what is in its natural state because it is scary what chemicals and other crap they add to food/dairy/meat! I am thinking that sometimes the advancement of science, especially in this case, is not always a good thing and in this case it is downright scary. Thank you for this great article, Bobbi!!! I wonder if they will be required by law to put "from a cloned cow" on the label, or did I miss that part?

Missy
 
>so if i eat nonorganic I am flippant and don't care? I don't
>think that's quite the ticket. I am happy for you if that's
>what makes you tick, but it sounds kind of like bashing your
>way, too.
>
>
>
>"you miss 100% of the shots you never take"
>
>Debbie

For me, eating animal products would require me to view animals in an indifferent way. That is all I was saying. I'm not bashing anyone, I'm trying to explain my motives and reasons for being a vegan.
I was attempting to explain what it feels like to make a decision that forever sets you apart from people. What it feels like to have others look at you with disgust or annoyance. What it feels like to make a big decision in your life that will impact every part of your life. That is all I'm doing. I'm not commenting on your life or your decisions.
I'm sorry if it came across that way Debbie.:)

Carolyn
 
no worries carolyn! I think different opinions make the board go round! :)


"you miss 100% of the shots you never take"

Debbie
 
>Going back to the original purpose of this thread *ahem*, I
>am becoming more and more convinced not to eat anything less
>than what is in its natural state because it is scary what
>chemicals and other crap they add to food/dairy/meat!

I think it's scary what the FDA allows to be done to our food without letting us know : spraying with who knows what pesticides like that stuff they used to use on apples, that the FDA labeled as "GRAS-generally regarded as safe"), genetic modification, radiation, coating with waxes to make produce stay all nice and shiny. Even eating "natural" foods (like buying a whole apple in th store) isn't a guarantee against those things, unless they are certified organically grown.

Maybe we should all grow our own?
 
> Soon we will find out how bad soy is and that it causes
>>cancer.
>
>I doubt it, since populations that have used soy foods (not
>the burgers and things made from isolated or concentrated soy
>protein) for CENTURIES have lower cancer rates than the US
>(until they start eating a diet like the SAD (standard
>American diet).
>
>

Thanks so much for pointing this out
Kathryn...:) I know I would have not said it better...:)...Carole
 
Regular milk contains antibiotics because cow'teats become infected by the way the milk is taken and that allows blood and pus into the milk. It also causes antibiotic resistance in your body since you are drinking the antibiotics, making your infection harder to cure. Antibiotics increase milk production. Overuse of antibiotics creates strains of bacteria that will be nearly incurable. It contains growth hormones which will affect how your body grows and how you produce your own hormones and it contains pesticides and herbicides which will give you cancer as do non organic foods of all kinds. Watch the preservatives and additives. Eat whole, clean foods. That's organic to me. The cows are tortured, kept pregnant to increase production and the babies are taken and used for veal, grown in the dark and dragged to slaughter too weak to stand. Mother cows cry for their babies too. Organic cows from reputable farms are allowed to calf and not impregnated as soon as possible. They live longer for that reason.

I won't go vegan but I do insist on knowing how the animals I consume were treated and that it was humanely. Hunting animals and, indeed, domesticating them, is why we are where we are as the humans. I am as concerned about how the animals I eat were treated during life as I am about how my neighbors treat their pets. I would not ignore animal abuse and torture so why would I consent to consume an animal that was not given a good life and treated well, fed well and even loved? Native Americans honored their buffalo and never killed them for the pleasure of killing and took only what was needed. Factory farms and dairies are appalling and I won't be party to that although I will eat a free chicken or cow raised on natural food it was intended to eat. corn feeding cows may fatten them up but it is gross and cruel. Even farmed salmon is fed corn and you can kiss the omega threes goodbye. I am not squeaminsh about death or raw meat but cruelty and suffering are not needed to bring food to my table so I don't want food that causes suffering. That's why I eat the meat and drink the milk I do. It's good for me and for the animal. I don't eat as my family did when I was a kid and some still do, because I know how animals are treated and its horrendous. I think every one should know where their food comes from and how it is produced. I am convinced my organic diet reduces my risk of heart disease and cancer and other illness better than a non organic diet because it is cleaner and better for the animals as well. I am concerned with the leanness of my proteins and the quality of my carbs and fats, why would I not want the animal I eat to have received the best of all treatment to honor it for being the source of life-giving nutrients in their best form?
Bobbi http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif "Chick's rule!"

Tell me, what it is you plan to do with your one wild and precious life? -Mary Oliver
 
VERY well said Bobbi!...http://bestsmileys.com/textinbubble1/19.gif[/img] I'll stick to veganism myself but you do make alot of sense and many good points...:)...
 
Thanks Carole. I have wrestled with it and made peace with myself but vegetarianism would be easy for me, if not veganism. In time, I'll go that way. I eat vegetarian for breakfast and lunch, snacks and most of my dinners unless we have chicken or fish and sometimes I eat the same as Ali, my vegetarian daughter and skip chicken too. It got very complicated for awhile and I'd make three different things for the non eaters of fish or meat and the outright carnivores. So I eased my restrictions for my sanity. Rich hates this organic thing and is willing to eat non organic but he humors me. I eat a much more halthy veg diet than she which I find funny. I'll eat red meat occasionally but less and less and haven't ever eaten much pork. I am so happy I have access to Wild Oats and Trader Joe's. It's difficult for people who don't have such places nearby. We also have a co-op and a brand new vegan restaurant called Loving Spoonfuls. Costco carries organic milk but not fat free but it can be tracked down at decent prices and we have an orgainc dairy in AZ as well as an awesome Small Planet Bakery and I am lucky Tucson is a good place for organic eaters and vegetarians. My niece is vegan and went raw for awhile and we could go out any more or I'd feel guilty because she could get no protein. :) I can't wait to try the new place!
Bobbi http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif "Chick's rule!"

Tell me, what it is you plan to do with your one wild and precious life? -Mary Oliver
 

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